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Director Friedkin Fired Composers Bernard Herrmann and Lalo Schifrin Off "The Exorcist"

posted 4 years ago by ecarle (14979)
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One of the interesting trivia bits about The Exorcist is how William Friedkin -- in his quest to make a Hollywood thriller that was DIFFERENT from most Hollywood thrillers -- ended up firing not one, but two, of the best musical composers in Hollywood from scoring The Exorcist.

Herrmann was the first to go; I'm not even sure he was officially hired. Though Herrmann had scored Citizen Kane and several Ray Harryhausen fantasy hits(Sinbad; Jason and the Argonauts), he was by then most famous for scoring 8 Hitchcock movies in a row, and even more famous for his score for Hitchcock's Vertigo, and most famous of all for scoring Hitchcock's Psycho -- with its famous "screech screech screech" of violins for the shower murder.

Hitchcock unceremoniously fired Herrmann off of "Torn Curtain" (1966) and Herrmann began a long period of exile before new 70's directors like DePalma and Scorsese hired him.

But in between, Herrmann had a shot at scoring The Exorcist, and imagine how film history would play if Herrmann had scored BOTH Psycho and The Exorcist(meanwhile, John Williams, no slouch himself, scored Jaws and made HIS name, with the best musical motif this side of Psycho's screeching: the locomotive da-da-dum for the shark.)

But it was not to be. Friedkin writes in his autobio of approaching Herrmann (I think even flying to England to meet with him) and commencing some early talks about how to score the film. But Herrmann's working methods were not to Friedkin's taste -- and he ended up rejecting Herrmann before he could really begin.

Not so with Lalo Schifrin. Schrifin was a "hip new composer" who scored with the great "Mission:Impossible" theme song for TV and then became an action thriller specialist with his lightly South American jazz based scores for Bullitt, Dirty Harry, and Charley Varrick.

Note in passing: While "Bullitt" and "The French Connection" both had the same producer and a classic car chase in each movie..."Bullitt" with its opening Lalo Schifrin credit theme plays as a cool,hip, very-Hollywood thriller rolling right out of the gate. But Friedkin eschewed Lalo Schifrin cool for the music of The French Connection and opened that film instead with loud, locomotive and atonal industrial strength power(by a composer who I don't recall doing much elsewhere.)

But now, Friedkin DID have a Lalo Schifrin score for a movie -- and he hated it. Angrily, insulting, virulently, and saying "This is Mexican music! I hate Mexican music!" (Not terribly thoughtful, that quote.) Evidently, Friedkin was so insulting about the Lalo Schifrin score TO Schifrin that the two men never spoke again.

So now, Friedkin had this big movie, The Exorcist, and it didn't have a score yet. And even after it was released, it didn't really have a score -- certainly nothing as wall-to-wall exciting as the scores for Psycho and Jaws would be in film history.

Still, Friedkin employed ANOTHER approach, and -- it worked. You've got to hand it to him.

What happened is, somewhere, somehow -- as happens with creative film directors -- Friedkin heard a haunting, modernistic mood piece by Mike Oldfield called "Tubular Bells." Friedkin only put this music over two scenes in The Exorcist -- and over the end credits.

But where "Tubular Bells" REALLY scored was on radio playlists in late 1973 and 1974. It was a Top Ten hit, always on your car radio or in your house. And it was creepy, and it kept "The Exorcist" in the air for months on end as the movie kept playing and playing.

Interesting: around the same time Friedkin heard "Tubular Bells" somewhere on a record, director George Roy Hill heard Scott Joplin's turn of the century ragtime instrumental "The Entertainer" as he was making his movie "The Sting" and turned THAT music into a Top Ten hit.

"The Sting" and "The Exorcist" opened in the same Christmastime week of 1973, jockeyed for position as the blockbuster of 1973(and much of 1974) and even competed on the radio with two distinctive instrumental themes that kept both movies on EVERYBODY's mind for months. (And now, in nostalgia, for years.)

Funny: The Scott Joplin music in "The Sting" is from the 1910s, but it serves a movie set in the 1930's. George Roy Hill said: "Nobody will know that, nobody will care." He was right.

And so: The Exorcist perhaps doesn't have the fame of the scores for Psycho and Jaws -- but it does have Tubular Bells, and in 1973/1974, that song WAS The Exorcist. Evidently it scared people who "re-lived" The Exorcist while hearing it(if they had seen it) and kept them primed to go and BE scared(if they had not seen it.)

[–] christomacin (4655) 4 years ago

Poor Lalo. He got kicked off The Reivers as well, in favor of John Williams. This seemed to happen to him a lot. Both The Reivers and The Exorcist proved to be iconic, trend-setting scores. Kubrick's last minute axing of Alex North (whom I don't really care for, honestly) was pretty low, as well. North didn't even know until he attended the 2001 premier, apparently. At least tell the guy his music isn't being used.

I'd say 2001: A Space Odyssey was likely the template for Friedkin's own approach to The Exorcist soundtrack.

[–] ecarle (14979) 4 years ago

Poor Lalo. He got kicked off The Rievers as well, in favor of John Williams.

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Well, I must admit, Williams strength in "Americana" (The Reivers) and Westerns(The Cowboys, The Man Who Loved Cat Dancing) needed awhile to manifest, but certainly fit The Reivers more than a Schifrin score would. EXCEPT that Scrfrin wrote a GREAT "All American" opening pastorale for "Charley Varrick" (1973) which opens with this beautiful music and a panoram of small time life BEFORE it becomes a crime thriller and the usual Lalo excitement kicks in.

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This seemed to happen to him a lot. Both The Rievers and The Exorcist proved to be iconic, trend-setting scores.

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In some ways, Lalo's 'Mission:Impossible" type stuff was "stuck in the 60's." I'll have to check imdb to see how much longer Lalo was a "force" as a composer after his Bullitt/Dirty Harry/Charley Varrick heyday.

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UPDATE: I checked. Lalo Schifrin is still alive, and still working as of 2020(last year). His credits nonetheless seem to be the biggest in the 60's, 70s, and a bit of the 80's.

[–] ecarle (14979) 4 years ago

Kubrick's last minute firing of Alex North (whom I don't really care for, honestly) was pretty low, as well. North didn't even know until he attended the 2001 premier, apparently. At least tell the guy his music isn't being used.

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Yes. That would be prudent and thoughtful, but directors can be thoughtless(and cowardly). Kubrick was pretty particular on 2001. Similarly(though I think he told the actor) Kubrick discarded American Martin Balsam's vocals for HAL the computer and replaced them with the more British and elegant voice we got. Douglas Rain.

Irony with Alfred Hitchcock. Universal pressured Hitchcock to fire Bernard Herrmann off of Torn Curtain and to go with a more "hip" sixties composer like Henry Mancini for that movie. Hitch didn't do that (he used John Addision) but a few years later, Hitchcock hired Henry Mancini to score the psycho thriller Frenzy(1972) and then fired Mancini off of that, replacing his score with a very pedestrian one by Ron Goodwin. Mancini's opening overture for Frenzy(which Hitchcock considered "too sinister") can be heard over the film's opening credits, on YouTube. I think it is much better than the overture the movie now has.

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I'd say 2001: A Space Odyssey was likely the template for Friedkin's own approach to The Exorcist soundtrack.

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Well, I guess Kubrick heard that opening classical motif on a record, much as Friedkin heard Tubular Bells and George Roy Hill heard "The Entertainer." All three directors had "their antennae up" for inspiration,and all three picked well!

[–] christomacin (4655) 4 years ago

Actually, the Cool Hand Luke score indicates he might have done OK with The Reivers, although no way does he do as good as Williams. After the 60's, he did score pretty big with Enter the Dragon (1973), and he did bag Oscar noms for both Voyage of the Damned (1976) and The Amityville Horror (1979), which was also a pretty big hit. Nevertheless, his career began to peter out despite these successes, and declined pretty precipitously from 1980 onward. It's a shame Eastwood didn't make him his "house composer". He was much more talented than the mediocrity of Lennie Niehuas and Jerry Fielding, whom Eastwood seemed to use a lot, or Eastwood's own piano tinklings. Fielding did OK in some of Peckinpah films, but he was never any better than he had to be. Eastwood's reluctance to use Morricone and Schifrin in his films was perhaps a misguided attempt to show his independence from the films of Leone and Siegel.

[–] ecarle (14979) 4 years ago

It's a shame Eastwood didn't make him his "house composer". He was much more talented than the mediocrity of Lennie Niehuas and Jerry Fielding, whom Eastwood seemed to use a lot. His reluctance to use Morricone and Schifrin in his films was perhaps a misguided attempt to show his independence from the films of Leone and Siegel.

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That's interesting analysis. I suppose we have to add one more composer that Clint Eastwood uses too much: Clint Eastwood.

It worked well for Unforgiven, but Eastwood seems to like to put these sparse "tinkly piano based scores"(based on his own tinkly piano playing) on his movies now. They always seem amateur to me, as if Eastwood finds a reasonably nice melody but goes no further.

Of course, Eastwood has always been rather a one-man-band of a film icon. He used to star and direct all of his movies after a certain point; now he mainly directs movies -- but has finished one as a star that will make history: "Cry Macho" starring Eastwood over the title at age 90. Its historic(it will play on HBO Max as well as in what pandemic theaters can play it.) I suppose it will have the first major movie score by a 90-year old, too.

[–] christomacin (4655) 4 years ago

Funny you mentioned "tinkly piano based scores". I was literally editing my post of above to include "Eastwood's own piano tinklings" at the very moment you were typing this. Now that's just down-right eerie, man! LOL

[–] ecarle (14979) 4 years ago

Ha..."great minds think alike"(well, yours) -- and, it also rather unfortunately indicts Eastwood for how "sound-alike" his scores are.

I salute the history Eastwood is about to make as the first "over the title leading man" at 90, but there's often been something a little cheapjack and self-absorbed about his filmmaking -- he's made a lot of mediocre movies with his own mediocre scores, and usually only really hits big when he has a really great script(Unforgiven, Million Dollar Baby, perhaps American Sniper.)

[–] christomacin (4655) 4 years ago

Oh, and RIP Lennie Niehaus by the way. He died recently. Condolences to his family. It's nothing personal.

[–] ecarle (14979) 4 years ago

[deleted]

[–] christomacin (4655) 4 years ago

[–] swanstep (2715) 4 years ago

It's funny: all these stories about Friedkin and Kubrick running through various composers are a reminder of what happens when you as a director arrive at the top of the mountain. You've had a massive hit or two and, *finally* you've got as much time and budget as you want. You can commission several scores and choose the best one, or none as the case may be. Huge, expensive sets can be built and sequences can be filmed but never used, etc.. For most directors that period of maximal power doesn't last long (Friedkin's ended after Sorcerer bombed) but Kubrick's unique status meant he got his own sweet, long leash deal from Warners - unlimited time, never have to leave England, and nearly unlimited budget if he didn't spend too quickly - until his death.

[–] christomacin (4655) 4 years ago

[–] ecarle (14979) 4 years ago

Williams did do the score for Eastwood's The Eiger Sanction (1976). Clint evidently hired him after hearing he was a jazz musician from back in his "Johnny" days. Clint's reason for hiring Williams was because he had a jazz background, not because of Jaws, The Towering Inferno, and The Poseidon Adventure?

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John Williams sort of "crept up on the job" in the 70's, but from Jaws on, he became THE movie music man, very much Bernard Herrmann's replacement as a "thriller guy" (Jaws, Family Plot, Black Sunday, The Fury) but also "the SciFi guy"(Star Wars, Close Encounters...and even Superman) and when necessary(earlier, actually) the Western guy(The Cowboys, The Man Who Loved Cat Dancing.)

Its funny: disaster films in their time -- The Poseidon Adventure, Earthquake, The Towering Inferno -- were seen as cheesy studio junk(in some quarters) but Williams scored all of those and gave each of them the same power and breadth he would lend to the respectable Jaws and Close Encounters. (For the record, I see only the typically cheapjack Universal Earthquake as cheesy studio junk; Posedion had a bang-up premise to cover for its B dialogue, and The Towering Inferno had truly major stars in a nicely serious film.)

One wonders if Clint Eastwood went for a John Williams score not just because of Williams' jazz roots, but to "have a John Williams score on a Clint Eastwood picture." Or perhaps because Williams was almost "in house" to Universal during those years (hence, Earthquake and Family Plot.)

[–] ecarle (14979) 4 years ago

Sometimes, I just don't get Clint. From what I gather, Clint did like the score - but never used (Williams) again. Did he fear being upstaged by the music?

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Well, from what we know, a number of directors feared (or resented) being upstaged by the music. There was pressure on Hitchcock to fire Herrmann from the studio, but Hitchcock also seems to have gotten bugged by Herrmann getting so much fame(I don't have a reference, just some general sense in things I've read over the years.) And Hitchcock fired Henry Mancini off of Frenzy, so we will never have a "Hitchcock/Mancini collaboration"(and Mancini did great thriller scores for Experiment in Terror, Charade, Arabesque, and Wait Utnil Dark.)

Later on, we have Friedkin dumping both Herrmann and Schifrin in favor of...no score...in The Exorcist. And Tarantino famously scored all of his movies from other sources EXCEPT The Hateful Eight(QT hired Morricone, who won an Oscar for an "original score" that STILL had samplings from earlier movies, like The Thing.)

A good moviechat poster named swanstep(around here, now) has pointed out that modern movies simply don't have the kind of instantly recognizable, thrilling scores and credit themes like (I will choose these) North by Northwest, Psycho, Jaws, Star Wars, Superman, Batman. Evidently either modern directors don't want to be upstaged by their composers...or distinctive composers are hard to find.

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[–] ecarle (14979) 4 years ago

I've heard Clint's sticking with Niehaus was mostly a matter of personal loyalty. Eastwood did sometimes use other composers, as well, but often chose poorly. Williams would have greatly improved Firefox, for example, rescuing it from the rather trite and tepid score by Maurice Jarre.

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Clint Eastwood slowly created "his own movie universe." No major co-stars sharing the screen with him(that would change in the 90's , when he needed them.) More often than not, he directed his own films, and he was almost always the producer(Malpaso). I don't know if he scored all of his films of the last 25 years(probably not Space Cowboys), but a lot of them.

Another key thing: Eastwood in his prime as a star made CHEAP movies; he bet on his stardom bringing in the crowds, and cut corners everywhere. Simply put, maybe Eastwood didn't want to PAY for top composers like Jerry Goldsmith or Williams.

[–] ecarle (14979) 4 years ago

Imagine Topaz scored by Jerry Goldsmith... would've been a big improvement I believe.

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Yes Goldsmith -- who was pretty much the OTHER "go to guy" than John Williams for scores in the 70s and got a lead on him in the 60's -- could have probably given Topaz some of that "Our Man Flint" power and cool. Still, there's not much exciting enough happening in Topaz for a better score to make much of a difference.

I think the biggest strength of Jarre's score is that ( I believe) , Jarre was French, and Topaz is Hitchcock's "valentine to France"(in honor perhaps of his friendship with Truffaut) so..the score fits.

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Hitchcock liked Jarre's Topaz score, but then again, his judgment in such matters could be as spotty as Eastwood's.

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Hitchcock thanked Jarre on delivery of the Topaz score with a note: "I have not given you a great movie, but you have given me a great score."(Interesting, that -- a director KNOWING his movie is sub-par; still, he had to go out and promote it.)

Hitchcock was dismissive of film music -- "Its not really music, its more like sounds," and after he fired Herrmann, he doesn't seem to have really CARED about the scoring of his films. This was most tragic with Frenzy -- Hitchcock's extremely well-reviewed possible classic -- which has neither a Herrmann score, nor a Mancini score, nor a Goldsmith score, nor a Williams score. It has a Ron Goodwin score that PROVES that the music IS important as much as what is on screen. Frenzy is an A movie with a B score. Forever. Because Hitchcock never really thought that one through.

And though Hitch could have hired Herrmann right up to Family Plot(Herrmann died in 1975 and FP was scored by then)...it is perhaps fitting that the final Hitchcock score is by...John Williams. Family Plot in 1976, with Williams managing to sandwich Hitchcock between Spielberg(Jaws) and Lucas(Star Wars.) Indeed Family Plot SOUNDS like Jaws and Star Wars at times. Fanciful.

[–] christomacin (4655) 4 years ago

It was probably a combination of several factors: Clint's knowledge of Williams's Jazz background, Williams's roots at Universal, and eagerness of the studio for a hot and trending "flavor of the month" do the score. Interesting, isn't it, that after 1975 the studios were pushing out Jazz based scores in favor of "full Classical" scores, whereas the trend was exactly reversed from 1967 (or thereabouts) until 1975 (or thereabouts)? Williams managed to weather these trends, largely because he helped pioneer them. He has even weathered the fairly recent trend AWAY from full orchestral scores towards the "tinkling piano" trend and the more rhythmic and percussive electronic sound of Hans Zimmer and others.

[–] ecarle (14979) 4 years ago

It's funny: all these stories about Friedkin and Kubrick running through various composers are a reminder of what happens when you as a director arrive at the top of the mountain.

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Yes. I was thinking of this: after Spartacus(which had an Alex North score) and Lolita(somebody scored it, yes?)...I don't think that Kubrick ever hired anyone to score any of him movies ever again. I think that Dr. Strangelove(like The Birds) has no music at all, except for opening "love-sex instrumental music" for the copulation of planes, and "We''ll meet again" at the end.

2001 famously has "Also Zach Zarathustra" -- which became famous for all time and even got a pre-disco instrumental hit in 1973 or so.

And Kubrick put classical music over everything from A Clockwork Orange to Eyes Wide Shut at the end(the same piece appears in both ACO and The Shining, as I recall.)

And this: Kubrick found "Also Zach Zarathrusta" while listening to records for inspiration; Friedkin found "Tubular Bells" while listening to records for inspiration; George Roy Hill found "The Entertainer" while listening to records for inspiration -- all three directors rather proved their great worth in their skill : "they sure knew how to pick 'em."

I'm reminded when I hear QT's movies with bits and pieces of music from "The Thing" and "Dark of the Sun" and "Kelly's Heroes" that I used to do that with my friends as kid when we made Super 8 movies. We'd do "music mixes" from favorite movie soundtrack albums, play them on a good cassette player and voila -- suddenly our little 8mm spoofs had music from Psycho, Jaws, and Once Upon a Time in the West to accompany them. QT is just us Super8 kids, older...and quite richer.

[–] ecarle (14979) 4 years ago

You've had a massive hit or two and, *finally* you've got as much time and budget as you want. You can commission several scores and choose the best one, or none as the case may be. Huge, expensive sets can be built and sequences can be filmed but never used, etc.. For most directors that period of maximal power doesn't last long (Friedkin's ended after Sorcerer bombed) but Kubrick's unique status meant he got his own sweet, long leash deal from Warners - unlimited time, never have to leave England, and nearly unlimited budget if he didn't spend too quickly - until his death.

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From where we stand now, Kubrick will remain as perhaps the most interestingly "coddled" film director in movie history. He could go years between movies: ACO to Barry Lyndon(4); Barry Lyndon to The Shining(5); The Shining to Full Metal Jacket(7); Full Metal Jacket to Eyes Wide Shut(12!) But he was as honored and respected and PAID(and budgeted) in 1999 as he had been in 1968.

I feel that the one-two punch of Dr. Strangelove and 2001 gave Kubrick his power forever. The first was a hit (and college revival classic) that confronted nuclear doomsday with comedy(very risky); the second was the kind of mega-art film that awes and enrages(bores?) people in equal measure, but cannot be denied as "true art."

And Kubrick kind of coasted from then on. I mean "coasted" not with mediocre films, but with art films that always seemed apart from the studio norm. I've been surprised in recent years to see The Shining rise in estimation as a major classic. It sure didn't feel that way in 1980, but time makes some classics. For what is is worth, respected writer-on-film David Thomson named The Shinning...Kubrick's best work. Naw.

CONT

[–] ecarle (14979) 4 years ago

In comparison to "crash and burn Friedkin," but of less "artistic respect to the end" than Kubrick, at least Hitchcock was protected by Universal to the end...kept in a nice studio bungalow with all the amenities, paid a million dollars to make "Universal tour" commercials, never cut loose from his contract(as Billy Wilder was by Universal.) But unlike Kubrick, Hitchcock couldn't get the biggest stars or the biggest budget, after Torn Curtain. Kubrick ended HIS career with freakin' Tom Cruise and Nicole Kidman, trapped for over a year doing take after take(well, Cruise longer than Kidman; he had more scenes.)

Away from the auteurs are, indeed, any number of producer directors who, once they get power, can use it however they like. Its Hollywood as the "dream come true" that some folks get to experience.

[–] christomacin (4655) 4 years ago

The Shining may be Kubrick's most interesting film to analyze, but I wouldn't quite call it his greatest film. I think a lot of people raised on YouTube conspiracy theory videos find the cryptic and "meta" style of his later films more intriguing. Consequently they tend to dismiss the taut perfection of Dr. Strangelove, Lolita, and Paths of Glory more than they should. The Shining and Eyes Wide Shut speak to the present young generation a lot more than his earlier films (and NOT just because they are in color), although it remains to be seen if future generations that come after THEM will also feel this way.

[–] ecarle (14979) 4 years ago

The Shining may be Kubrick's most interesting film to analyze, but I wouldn't quite call it his greatest film.

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I can't. I will go with "Dr. Strangelove," but I recall having a conversation on this very point in college(when Barry Lyndon was his most recent) and the other guy said "well, that's his easiest film, the one that works most like a regular movie." I've remembered that comment, from all those years ago, and it has stuck with me and the answer is: yes, it is.

I recall this pan from the only moderately well-regarded Los Angeles Times critic, Kevin Thomas, about The Shining on its 1980 release: "It is too much of an art film for horror movie fans, and too much of a horror movie for art film fans." Yeah, I guess, sort of...it did seem to fail on the horror side. I think Nicholson is great in the film(if he's hammy, that helps the film entertain), but never really scary.

But I did love that scene with the English waiter in the bathroom: perfect Kubrick in terms of what he had become, years AFTER Dr. Strangelove(which was fast-paced): a filmmaker interested in slowing human communication down to the near stasis, yet powerfully so, in as perfectly photographed a setting as possible. This scene recurs often in Tom Cruise's superslow chats with other characters(including Sydney Pollack at the end) in Eyes Wide Shut; it is quite stylistic on Kubrick's part. Nicholson in The Shining and Cruise in Eyes Wide Shut are reduced to being "straight men"(just standing there, silently reacting) as the other characters are "given the floor."

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[–] ecarle (14979) 4 years ago

I think a lot of people raised on YouTube conspiracy theory videos find the cryptic and "meta" style of his later films more intriguing. Consequently they tend to dismiss the taut perfection of Dr. Strangelove, Lolita, and Paths of Glory more than they should.

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That's a great point. It is rather as if, from 2001 on, Kubrick not only "changed" into an art film director, but likely felt that he had an OBLIGATION to become an art film director -- I mean, if he directed Lethal Weapon or something, Warners never would have given him that carte blanche multi-decade contract.

The Killing and Paths of Glory and Spartacus(disowned by Kubrick, but certainly recognizably his) and Lolita and Dr. Strangelove are traditional narratives and grippingly so. (I say this knowing that The Killing is non-traditional in its multi-character time frame POV; but the STORY is traditional.)

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The Shining and Eyes Wide Shut speak to the present young generation a lot more than his earlier films (and NOT just because they are in color),

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Well, I guess these are the Kubrick films (after Spartacus) with the two biggest stars attached: Nicholson and Cruise. And those guys are/were hip stars. One is a horror movie, the other is a sex movie -- great gateways to the artistic mysteries and blind alleys of the two films.

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although it remains to be seen if future generations that come after THEM will also feel this way.

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Yep...well, it remains to be seen just how much of the 20th Century output of film directors will last at all, I suppose. How fitting that Kubrick made his final film(and died) in 1999.

[–] ecarle (14979) 4 years ago

Kubrick will forever have this advantage in film history: such a small number of films over such a long period of time. If you lived this, it was amazing to watch him return after long absences, over DECADES. If you are looking back at it (and I will start with The Killing) the output is small and easy to get all seen:

The Killing
Paths of Glory
Spartacus
Lolita
Dr. Strangelove
2001
A Clockwork Orange
Barry Lyndon
The Shining
Full Metal Jacket
Eyes Wide Shut

Looks like 11 movies to me. One more than the 10 and only 10 that QT promises us.

A list that's easy to remember.

[–] ecarle (14979) 4 years ago

"The Scott Joplin music in "The Sting" is from the 1910s, but it serves a movie set in the 1930's. George Roy Hill said: "Nobody will know that, nobody will care." He was right."

It's remarkable to consider the depths of obscurity Ragtime had fallen into by the 1970s, and how quickly that changed after The Sting. It's also hard to believe that Vivaldi's' The Four Season was mostly forgotten up until the 1940s or so. That music is so ubiquitous now it's difficult to conceive of it not always being the cornerstone of Western music it currently is.

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Interesting points. I suppose we again have to salute the film directors who -- by means of their own curiosity about music -- sought these older forms of music, liked them and re-applied them in a modern way.
The Scott Joplin ragtime in The Sting became a radio hit and a kind of "short hand' in movies yet to come for "old fashioned and fun."

Here's something to consider. The 1975 trailer for Jaws opens with spooky John Williams music and a shot of the female swimmer being attacked, but the images then shift to Roy Scheider patrolling the Fourth of July beach -- with ragtime music on the soundtrack! (I think this music is in the movie scene, too.) This comes right after the attack on the woman had this narration: "Its as if God put the Devil on earth and gave him..Jaws."

Think about it. A trailer for Jaws that references The Exorcist("the Devil on earth..") and The Sting(the ragtime music at the beach.) Jaws made a play to remind audiences of the two recent biggest blockbusters of all time..and BEAT them at the box office.

[–] ecarle (14979) 4 years ago

It was probably a combination of several factors: Clint's knowledge of Williams's Jazz background, Williams's roots at Universal, and eagerness of the studio for a hot and trending "flavor of the month" do the score.

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I'd agree to that. In the mid/late seventies, if it didn't have a John Williams or Jerry Goldsmith score, something was wrong (even Henry Mancini found himself floundering, luckily his career-long work with Blake Edwards kept him going into the 80s.)

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Interesting, isn't it, that after 1975 the studios were pushing out Jazz based scores in favor of "full Classical" scores, whereas the trend was exactly reversed from 1967 (or thereabouts) until 1975 (or thereabouts)?

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Yep. Herrmann got pushed out for Mancini in the 60's, Mancini got pushed out for Williams in the 70s.
Because: fans of Hitchcock and Herrmann and classical 50's movie scores were now young filmmakers MAKING movies -- and they wanted Bernard Herrmann BACK, in style if not always in the man himself.
I think Williams Star Wars score was suggested to be of even greater vintage -- "Korngold" (The Sea Hawk), and it has a brief passage with the final three notes of Psycho in it.

Speaking of Psycho, note in passing: Hitchcock and Herrmann at one point discussed giving that movie a "small jazz score."
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Williams managed to weather these trends, largely because he helped pioneer them. He has even weathered the fairly recent trend AWAY from full orchestral scores towards the "tinkling piano" trend and the more rhythmic and percussive electronic sound of Hans Zimmer and others.

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As we post this, John Williams is very old and I've lost track of what his most recent score has been(I can check imdb) and if he has announced retirement yet.

Hans Zimmer is mentioned a lot, and yet I cannot think of any of his music that is particularly memorable. I'll check his list.

[–] ecarle (14979) 4 years ago

And "on the subject" of William Friedkin and scores:

A quick run through IMDb shows that ONLY on The Exorcist did William Friedkin not use a musical composer(none is listed for that film.)

We have:

Don Ellis(who?) for The French Connection
Tangerine Dream for Sorcerer
Richard Rodney Bennett for The Brink's Job
Arthur B. Rubenstein for Deal of the Century
Wang Chung for To Live and Die in LA

No John Williams or Jerry Goldsmith that I could find, but it looks like Friedkin relented for scores. That said , both Tangerine Dream and Wang Chung were "hip musician" choices.

[–] [deleted] 4 years ago

"I first heard Tangerine Dream while in Munich for the opening of The Exorcist. Had I heard them sooner I would have asked them to score that film." -William Friedkin.

Even being a Tangerine Dream fanboy, I can't imagine The Exorcist without Tubular Bells. Maybe he was always that way with whomever was doing scores for him.

[–] ecarle (14979) 4 years ago

Even being a Tangerine Dream fanboy, I can't imagine The Exorcist without Tubular Bells.

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Me, neither. Tubular Bells brings that movie back with instant intensity, and for me -- young and alive when it came out -- it brings back a memory of a year, a time, a place. I don't even particularly like The Exorcist, but I DO like the memories from that year in my life when it came out and "Tubular Bells" was everywhere.

Meanwhile, can Tangerine Dream be considered "movie composers" much as John Williams or Jerry Goldsmith were. Well..."yes and no." No in that Tangerine Dream(which was a performing instrumental band, yes -- concert?) wasn't a "for hire" movie composing factory but....a Tangerine Dream score made memorable:

Sorcerer
Thief
Risky Business

...just to name three that come to my mind.

[–] [deleted] 4 years ago

[–] ecarle (14979) 4 years ago

Tangerine Dream* were most certainly were for hire to do film composition. Edgar Froese talks about this in a few places. They may not have hung a shingle about it but they were very approachable on the subject. He didn't seem to back away from the film business until around the early 1990s. After that it may have taken a bit more effort to get them involved.

*Which are a performing (mostly) instrumental band, there's no was about it.

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I could go read about this, I suppose, but I will seek my education here if I can:

Did Tangerine Dream emerge FIRST as some sort of performing musical group? And were THEN brought over to movie scoring?

I will cruise IMDb to check out all of their(his?) scores. Off the top of my head, I could really only remember Thief and Risky Business --its simply reading about it her that I included Sorcerer. I don't remember that score.

[–] [deleted] 4 years ago

Their first music is as a band before working on soundtracks but it's pretty close. They continued to do group work while doing soundtracks. They have a tremendous amount of music that they've put out over the past few decades.

[–] ecarle (14979) 4 years ago

Very good. Thank you.

Myself, I first noticed them when I saw Thief. I really liked the movie, and I REALLY liked the score.

[–] thingmakersback (1370) 3 years ago

I never knew Herrmann had been considered. Schifrin however is a better know case. You can hear an eleven minute suite of his music on Youtube. Some of it is sufficiently similar to classical cues Friedkin used that I assume he had been presented with a "temp track" of this material. It often happens that a director assembles a temporary music track for their film and becomes attached to it; rejecting the work of a composer they have hired.

[–] Scape (526) 3 years ago

Lalo Schifrin came back & kicked some Horror Film Score ass though when he did “The Amityville Horror” a couple of years later. One of my favorite horror themes/score.