i would like to know what you all have to say,but I think he was the dead marshell's brother. what do you others think?
shareWell, the theory of being possessed can be supported by the first part of the movie where "the Stranger" rides through the cemetary into Lago. In fact, I thought his name would Drew Scott.
I'm leaning on the side of the Stranger being not so much Satan, but the ghost of Jim Duncan (or maybe even a vengeful spirit) sent to gain vengeance for the Sheriff. If he were Satan, I think he'd target everyone in the town. Remember, he actively kept the Mexicans away from the action, even telling them they couldn't come to the party. And he made no move against Mordecai, who, being a little person, had been powerless in stopping the death of the Sheriff and was the only one to really be disturbed by his whipping.
shareI really don't think Eastwood was a ghost. A ghost doesnt check himself into a hotel and have interaction with all the townsfolk. I always believed he was simply a stranger..."The man with no name" if you will...that was passing through Lago simply for a shave and a hot bath and ended up staying since the town "bought him off" with carte blanche to help them with their problem.
shareThat's what I was thinking also. Satan would have been mean to the little guy too. I vote for the ghost of Jim Duncan.
shareI think definately the Devil. However, with certain restrictions. The man upstairs has decided there has to be retribution to the town, so gives the man downstairs the job of going in and doing the inhuman things that must be done, but only to those who are guilty.
All good points in these posts though. And it is, as ever, a matter of interpretation.
Satan would have been mean to the little guy too.
I think the Stranger was Marshal Jim Duncan's ghost. Why? At the end of the movie, the Stranger is riding out of town when he stops to talk to Mordecai. Mordecai says, "I never did know your name." The Stranger says, "Yes, you do. Take care." Then as the Stranger rides away, the camera pans to show a grave marker with the name Marshal Jim Duncan. If other posters insist on sticking to other theories, fine.
share^ What jloper saidMost evidence points to him being the ghost of Marshal Duncan.
shareNo one seems to notice that not only does he disappear in the end of the film, he appears out of nowhere in the beginning.
It's long believed that many ghosts are restless spirits. They can't rest for one reason or another, violent deaths being one of those reasons.
He resembles Duncan, he does what he can to tear the town apart for what they did, the only two people he doesn't go out of his way to humiliate are Mordecai and to a point Mrs. Belding. The rest he totally tears apart.
Also in the beginning as he's riding in, he crosses a graveyard, another classic type of scene (see Shane).
And of course the last scene where Mordecai is carving Duncan's name on the stone and say's, I never got/knew your name..The Stranger says, yes you do/did and the camera pans down to Jim Duncan's name.
He wasn't Duncan's brother, he was Duncan's restless spirit out to exact revenge and find himself some peace.
It's clearly a ghost because of the eerie ghost music at the beginning when rides into town, and at the end as he rides back out.Thats it right there! Eerie ghost music as Clint rides in out of the heat shimmers! The brother concept could work, his nightmares of his brother being whipped to death could have been just that, nightmares. Not literal memories of the event. However, regardless of that possibility, from the first time I saw this as a kid, the " dont know your name" "yes you do" pan to the gravemarker shot, a gravemarker that now has a name on it, "and you know a soul cant rest until its grave is marked" combined with the spooky ghost music, ride out of the shimmer, and ride back into it at the end, leads me to firmly believe that Clint was the Marshalls ghost back for revenge. One of my favorite movies, ever.
A couple of thoughts/responses to those who question or challenge the notion of Eastwood's character as being Satan:
"He has a strong sense of justice"
If one is to look at his actions, there is nothing "just" about them. It is pure revenge, warranted or not. It actually goes beyond that, as much of what happens serves to demoralize and humiliate the townspeople on all levels before the final vengeance is served. The late marshall was shown "cursing" the townsfolk soon before he died, and the actions Eastwood takes are befitting of an entity who seeks to enact a curse, not of someone or something who seeks to restore "balance", or right a few wrongs. He is just enacting a whole bunch of wrongs upon the wrongs already present.
"He was nice to (insert small group here)! The devil would never be nice to anyone"
I might be mistaken in my understanding of theology, but the way I understand it, the Devil across time and cultures has much more often been represented as a "trickster" or "manipulator", rather than an embodiment of pure evil. In certain religious contexts, he is said to be competing with God over souls, and his primary method of acquiring them is through bribery and temptation. Everything Eastwood's character does is with the intent of garnering the most power and influence over the town as possible. He never FORCES the town to do anything, but through his actions and words allows the town's true nature to damn itself. They follow him willingly, and he acts as a sort of mirror to the town's own evil nature, which is really what the concept of the Devil is all about: tempting man into following their own dark tendencies.
Could it also be Jim Duncan's ghost? Sure, but I feel there's far too much substance for such a simple explanation.
In all honesty I think they included the gravestone shot just because they needed to ground his character in something a little more concrete for audience members that might have been put off by such an "ambiguous" character and story. Or put off by the idea that his character could be the Devil, and is presented as the "protagonist" (which is STILL a pretty ballsy thing to do, even by recent standards).
Also, we know what the late Jim Duncan looks like. Eastwood is clearly not a likeness of Jim Duncan. I don't know of any dramatic instances where an apparition that is representative of someone's ghost does not take on their likeness. If the movie was going for the standard "action thriller" thing that many say it is, why wouldn't it just have been Eastwood as Duncan? Then he reappears to the horror of the town, and proceeds to dish out justice. THAT is a standard action thriller, but that's not what happens.
If it was Duncan's spirit that possessed a passerby (or if it was a brother, or any other "normal" person) there wouldn't be any reason to show him "appearing" and "disappearing" in the desert. People have made a point that great emphasis is put on setting up those scenes, so clearly he is meant to be seen as a supernatural being, and not merely human.
So not only do I feel the Satan explanation has the most substantive backing, I think all other explanations have a significant amount working against them. The ghost explanation I feel is the next most likely, but it would then have to be explained why the ghost didn't have Duncan's likeness, or why it didn't recognize where it was, or why it decided to do all of these roundabout symbolic methods of enacting revenge, or why it was so cruel, or why it seems its only connection with the town was a single vision of the moment Duncan was cursing them.
With the Satan explanation, really the only question is why was he "nice" to certain people, and I think it's simple enough to explain it as manipulation and temptation in order to have more power over everyone.
To me it even makes thematic sense that the townspeople would not recognize the ghost of Jim Duncan -- they tried to forget him, they even left his grave unmarked.
As for whether that's "how ghosts work", there is certainly a lot of storytelling latitude; Tobin's Spirit Guide is sadly out of print so we can't consult a definitive resource.
I have no problem with the fitting punishments for the townspeople of Lago; in the real world I would consider them excessive, but this is a Western, I don't expect peaceable resolutions to issues.
[deleted]
Satan? You've gotta be kidding. More like an avenging angel, if anything. The three criminals literally bullwhipped this man to death. Can you imagine the torture of having your life end that way? They did it because they were on the town's payroll, and they were ordered to kill him, in the worst way possible, because he was going to report them for illegal mining. And, on top of that, they all stood outside and watched this grotesque spectacle of torturous death play out.
No....Satan did not send him.
The bad news is you have houseguests. There is no good news.
Well your right Clint was the brother of the dead sheriff.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YtmZSUbCma8 35.50 in he talks about this movie that he directed aswell.
Personally i thought it was the ghost of the Sheriff but as it was written it was
the brother of the sheriff.
Clint said however that he left it abit open for the viewer to make up their on opinion.
I've always had a difficult time accepting the idea that the Stranger was a ghost. Shooting guns, committing rape, drinking whiskey, saying a man has to get his rest......... those actions are almost to human like to reconcile being the actions of a ghost.
As to him disappearing at the end, I've never put a lot of stock into that. And the reason is if any of you have ever watched Rocky Balboa at the end of the movie Rocky disappears too, was he a ghost? Sometimes I think that's nothing more than an effect. I'm not sure the Stranger actually disappears it was just shown that way in the movie for mysterious effect.
Him being the Devil doesn't really hold water either to me. At least not the concept of the Devil from the Bible. If the Devil comes against people, turning to God is the only thing that will cause him to flee, there was no real evidence the people of Lago had repented, so there was no reason for him to leave. The things that seem to make the Stranger leave were the fact that the outlaws were dead and Duncan's grave was marked. The Devil wouldn't care about those things, he would stay and plague the townspeople as long as he could. and probably would be nice to no one like he was Mordeci and the Indian children.
I am inclined to think that the Stranger being Duncan's brother makes the most sense, and the fact that he was gifted with a sixth sense and possible psychic abilities, as well as being an extraordinary gunfighter.
star,
First of all you are correct, as are the others who take the same view, that the stranger cannot be the devil. For the reasons you mention.
But I cannot agree with the Duncan's brother scenario. The stranger simply knows too much about what previously happened. For example Duncan died while Sarah Belding tried to stop the killing. Same for Mordecai. Duncan's brother would have no way of knowing that history. The only two Lagos residents (presumably the Mexican carpenters and the Indians are not) who the stranger treats fairly are Sarah and Mordecai.
Of course he does not treat Sarah nicely in any PC way, but that merely points to the fact that he modulates his behavior toward the residents in general relation to their moral culpability. For example Dave Drake has more culpability than the barber. While Drake is technically killed by Bridges, the context was set up by the stranger. If Morgan Allen is a better example, fine. He was also killed by Bridges, but of course he would not have encountered Bridges but for the grievous wound he suffered from the stranger. but I digress.
The point is that the stranger knows too much about the specific history of the Lagos townspeople to have been Duncan's brother.
I understand your metaphysically based objections to saying he was a ghost, but of course this is a film. Perhaps a ghost who returns from the dead, taking the appearance of another, for the specific purpose of wreaking vengeance on the town?
Let's put it this way - that makes more sense than any of hte alternatives, even if we have to concede it is in real world terms quite implausible.
I see what you are saying. Its just that the Stranger's actions don't really fit anything but a human being. He's certainly not God, nor the Devil, and its just difficult to accept that a ghost does all the things the Stranger does. Although the Stanger's competence and abilities do at times seem superhuman, they are just enough within the realm of human capabilities to not rule him out as a human. Which of course makes him all the more mysterious and makes the mystery a little more maddening. The Stranger's abilities are such that its enough to make you wonder, but yet his feats were not entirely impossible for a human. After all, some people can shoot really well, and have been known to have a sixth sense and psychic visions. But when you consider a ghost, no ghost story I've ever heard involves actions like those of the Stranger. So to completely alter the concept of a ghost even in a fictional story that is otherwise quite believable, is a bit out there.
As to the Stranger knowing to much about the town and Duncan's death, there are a couple of possible ways. As I mentioned before, its not unheard of for people to have visions and dreams of real events. Also, isn't it possible that if the Stranger was Duncan's brother, Duncan could have visited him at some point before his death and confided in him about the townspeople, possibly even told him about some of the corruption? As to Duncan's death and him knowing who was most sympathetic, what if their was someone in Lago who knew more about Duncan's background that the rest of the townspeople, perhaps even knew he had a brother and when Duncan was killed he went to the Stranger to inform him of his brother's death, giving him full details of the murder? I know there is no evidence in the film to support this, but there could easily have been someone off screen who witnessed Duncan's death. The Stranger perhaps already had a vision or dream of it. I don't think its likely that the unknown witness was the Stranger himself or he undoubtedly would have intervened, but it could have been someone who knew more about Duncan than the rest of the townspeople, perhaps a close friend who simply did not have the competence or ability to intervene, so he went to the Stranger. Perhaps it was someone with a connection to Mordeci, maybe even a relative of his. Since the Stranger seems to have a special relationship with Mordeci. Who knows?
Again, I know this is pure speculation and there is nothing in the film that proves this, we simply don't have enough information to say for certain. Which is part of what makes the film mysterious. All I was pointing out is that there are plausible ways the Stranger could have known the things he did without being a ghost.
The only thing the film makes pretty clear, is that the Stranger had some kind of connection to Duncan. The mystery of course is what it was.
Star,
I understand there are difficulties in seeing The Stranger as a ghostlike return of the dead sheriff, and perhaps some variation, such as him being a kind of avenging angel, might fit in some ways better. In a very different movie consider how the second class angel in It's a Wonderful Life took on human form.
But I still have problems with the Duncan's brother theory. The knowledge we are shown about Sarah Belding and Mordecai trying to stop and not being in on Duncan's killing were specific to the time he was killed. Duncan would have literally had no opportunity to tell anyone not there what happened in general, and specifically not the knowledge excusing Sarah and Mordecai from the collective responsibility for his murder.
Btw are you familiar with Pale Rider? In a similar but different way the returning and avenging character there was more clearly identified as a reincarnation, with wound marks and all, of a dead person. I think the differences in that story's approach are illuminating.
Just caught this movie this afternoon on AMC and always thought it was obvious it's the Marshall's ghost.
But have to say the Satan theories are quite interesting that I had never thought of before. It certainly puts a new spin on the movie for me looking at it from that perspective.
But I still believe its the ghost of Jim Duncan.
The stranger is just that "a stranger" it's the most logical explanation of Clint's character. I never thought he was a ghost, nor the devil. To see people post that as their interpretation of the character made my jaw drop the first time I read this board, really people?? I never saw that. He was a master gunslinger. Since the first time I watched it I always thought he was "the man with no name" stranger just like he was in his spagetti westerns previous. I think some of you read into Clint's character a little too much and reached out for something that was not really meant to be there. His disappearance in the heatwaves can be easily explained as distancing away from the camera. Any object that goes on to infinity away from the camera will eventually disappear. Doesn't mean he was a ghost because of it!
shareHere are multiple possibilities on who The Stranger is. A) The ghost of Marshall Jim Duncan. B) Marshall Duncan's brother. C) A simple man haunted by Marshall Duncan's murder or D) He's a drifter who coincidentally happens to have the same name as Marshall Jim Duncan.
shareMaybe the Stranger was Duncan's brother, and even though he was not a marshall himself his actual first name was Marshall. That would still fit the camera moving to the grave stone. haha. Unlikely but its a thought.
shareMCM,
Clearly he is not a mere stranger. They call him the stranger because no one recognizes him, not because he has no prior connection to Lago.
Think about the dreams he has, that are quite specific as to past events that happened in Lago, to Marshall Duncan in particular. The film clearly shows they are HIS dreams. How can he have had such dreamed memories if he had no knowledge of the events before he happened to ride into town?
Yes, and that is why the explanation is simple. I heard in the script the movie started with the stranger was the brother, who came to seek for revenge.
But then it is much more intriguing, that you NOT know who this guy really is.
In the original script, all the things the main character does makes sense! He promote the Midget to Maire, he sleeps, with the main villains wife (never knew a ghost, giving a woman so much pleasure), the brother want to seek revenge, but he is a good person, that is why he gives the blankets away. Most viscous thing is by hiring him, THEY make the decision, that will make them fall.
But then the story, being the brother is a bit simple. By giving hints, he could be out of this world, a ghost or even Satan, the movie lift itself over a more simplistic and classic story. So the brother, becomes a "ghost" of the Marshall, to keep you intrigued!
Also if the main character would not have been dead, he would indeed be recognized, and full of scars, all over his body, which were not present in his bath.....
[deleted]
Also, as we see The Stranger riding into the desert, there is a moment in which he mysteriously disappears like a ghost.
I really like the interpretation of death as the Stranger as well. Very fitting with the ending and it makes sense in connection with the rest of the events of the movie. Good thoughts! I still think I prefer the Satan interpretation (mostly due to the symbolism present in the film), but that's a personal preference. The Stranger as an embodiment of death is a very cool idea.
share