Eastwood's character not a ghost?
i would like to know what you all have to say,but I think he was the dead marshell's brother. what do you others think?
sharei would like to know what you all have to say,but I think he was the dead marshell's brother. what do you others think?
sharepersonally I think he was just a stranger passing by who got haunted by the dead sheriff (who was out for revenge, the lady in the hotel said the dead wont rest because he has unfinished business) the night in the hotel. then either out of possession or an urge decides to act on the information the dead sheriff put in his head.
just a thought.
Tarantino is a prat!! and so is bryan singer!!
hard to take you seriously with a tagline like that.
shareWhile watching the movie, I just assumed the Marshall had somehow crawled off and survived, after being whipped half to death. But at the end, I was forced to conclude he really was a ghost.
Been making IMDB board posts since the 90s, yet can't bring up any from before December of 2004.
It's clearly a ghost because of the eerie ghost music at the beginning when rides into town, and at the end as he rides back out.
If this isn't ghost music, I don't know what is: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4HavVfiDfUw
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-I think George Michael is hiding Anne in the attic.
-From who, the Nazis?
that will save you some embarrassment, is my guess
Glad I am not the only one to assume that, but now I know he was really a ghost, as it's obvious when people explained it.
shareEastwood was the ghost of Sheriff Jim Duncan. Reasons:
1) The comment was made at one point that, if the dead don't lie in a properly marked grave, they don't rest. Jim Duncan was not in a marked grave for most of the movie, so we could expect that his ghost wasn't resting. The writer put that line into the script for a reason.
2) At the end of the movie, the short guy is properly marking Jim Duncan's grave, just before Clint rides off into the haze and disappears. Probably not a coincidence.
3) Eastwood seemed to remember things that Jim Duncan would have, such as being whipped to death, and which townspeople were basically decent and which were slime. He dreamt about Jim Duncan's death and got the details right, which meant he must at least have been on the scene, which limits the possible candidates right there.
4) Eastwood took some bullets to the gut sitting in the tub, and survived without a scratch. That could have been just for laughs but I'll take it as a hint.
5) The point that people wanted to know who he was ("Who are you?") means that his identity was significant on some level. In most Man With No Name films, his identity is not important at all. But in this case his identity did matter; that points to Eastwood being someone relevant to the town's history.
Some folks make a big deal about how nobody recognized Eastwood, and wouldn't they have recognized him if he were actually Jim Duncan. Well that would certainly hold if Eastwood were playing a mortal living breathing man, but ghosts don't necessarily play by the same rules. To be sure, the movie couldn't have worked if he rode into town and everyone said "Hey look, it's Sheriff Jim Duncan back from the dead! How's it going, buddy? Sorry about having you killed a couple years back." The movie was about the town paying for its past misdeeds, and who better to collect than the man they killed and buried in an unmarked grave?
It's open to interpretation.
That said, I don't see how it can be interpreted as Eastwood being anything other than Duncan's ghost.
Agreed. My Dad said that idea was 'silly', but it's a movie and there are no other viable explanations offered except that Clint is some sort of spook. Though I don't require ghosts in my Western movies I don't think this idea for a story line has been touched on or nearly as worn out as other Western conventions. Also, it would have been a downer for someone in the movie to declare, "It's sheriff Duncan's ghost!!!" We are supposed to wonder about it.
shareTHANKS! I believe you! You had some very good view points!
Two things to reply too:
1.) "Doing a double take in the mirror": The first time he "kind of" sees himself in a mirror was at the barber when he sat in the chair - there was no "double take". The second time he sees himself in a mirror (which I think is the instance that you're referring too) is when he wakes up in his hotel room the next morning, again there is NO double take, he just looks at himself like anyone else would before they walk out the door.
2.) "Taking a shot in the belly or somewhere else without a scratch": You are referring to the second barber scene (the next morning) when he's taking a bath & Callie storms in and starts squeezing off shots at him. Callie is just a bad shot, if you watch that scene in slow motion you'll see that NONE of the bullets actually hit him, they hit the tub on the side and everywhere else but him. Don't really think she really wanted to shot him anyway. Callie wanted him to do it, come on ladies, you know she was asking for it from the moment she laid eyes on him. She was probably just trying to save face or something.
BTW: My take is avenging ghost of the sheriff.
Visit me @: www.BobbyLane.com/live
It was her way of trying to get attention from him.
My wife does that, except instead of not quite shooting me, she nags me.
Also at the very end of the film the short guy (Mordecai? I can't remember) asks him his name, and he nods at the grave and says "You already know." Before riding off.
He also fades away as he rides into the distance, although that could have just been the heat...
nice summary, agree he was a ghost
shareEastwood was the ghost of Sheriff Jim Duncan. Reasons:
1) The comment was made at one point that, if the dead don't lie in a properly marked grave, they don't rest. Jim Duncan was not in a marked grave for most of the movie, so we could expect that his ghost wasn't resting. The writer put that line into the script for a reason.
2) At the end of the movie, the short guy is properly marking Jim Duncan's grave, just before Clint rides off into the haze and disappears. Probably not a coincidence.
3) Eastwood seemed to remember things that Jim Duncan would have, such as being whipped to death, and which townspeople were basically decent and which were slime. He dreamt about Jim Duncan's death and got the details right, which meant he must at least have been on the scene, which limits the possible candidates right there.
4) Eastwood took some bullets to the gut sitting in the tub, and survived without a scratch. That could have been just for laughs but I'll take it as a hint.
5) The point that people wanted to know who he was ("Who are you?") means that his identity was significant on some level. In most Man With No Name films, his identity is not important at all. But in this case his identity did matter; that points to Eastwood being someone relevant to the town's history.
SPOILER:
I agree. At the end, It was clear to me when Mordecai asked the stranger said I never really knew what you name was, and when the stranger answered, "yes, you do" the look on Mordecai's face said it all.
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"I really don't like talking about my flair."
At the end of the movie, the short guy is properly marking Jim Duncan's grave, just before Clint rides off into the haze and disappears. Probably not a coincidence.
There is another interpretation that you can take, especially since Eastwood liked leaving the ending open to a more supernatural explanation.
The Stranger rapes, kills, and tortures. (Not very sheriff-like behavior.)
He paints the town red, renames it Hell, and sets everything on fire.
The Stranger is Satan.
There's a shot near the end where Eastwood is standing out of focus in the background, in front of one of the burning buildings. The choice to keep him out of focus makes the brim of his hat look like horns.
Think about it.
I always interpreted The Stranger as being Satan as well.
For alot of the said reasons: rape, renaming the town Hell, the fire, etc.
But what always stuck out to me was the scene where the sheriff offers him whatever he wants cause the Stranger perks up and says "Anything I want?" It reminds me of selling your soul to the devil.
Yes, it wasn't until the sherrif said "anything you want" that he decided to stay. That's when he took their souls.
shareguys... think of it like The Crow... he came back (slightly different form) as a vengeful spirit in human form... the flashbacks (like Eric Draven's)... the animosity toward certain townspeople... and the most important fact: he disappears along the horizon at the very end (just like a ghost)...
shareAND... "I never did know your name." "Yes you do." Camera pans down to the gravestone of the former Sheriff... I don't think everyone watched the whole movie all the way through...
share
And what makes you think that everyone watched the movie all the way thru?
I also think it is either the ghost of Jim Duncan or Satan.
Because of the dream scene, the behavior of the stranger, the red town-Hell written on town sign, and how the stranger made sure that he could have anything he wanted...very much like the Devil!
Off to watch the Count of Monte Cristo....:D
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Maybe I'm just imagining it, but it seemed to me that as an actor, Eastwood managed to create an otherworldly presence: There was something very dark and still about him in the way he carried himself and talked. I'm thinking that in his mind, he added "ghost" to his construction of the character.
"We got a job"
"What kind?"
"The Forever Kind"
There's a small scene no seems to mention, where the stranger walks past a mirror and does a double take, and stares at his face like he's never seen it before. This why I always went with the idea of a ghost coming back for revenge, but with a differnt appearance.
shareWell IMDB has this on it
During an interview on "Inside the Actors Studio" (1994), Clint Eastwood commented that earlier versions of the script made The Stranger the dead marshal's brother. He favoured a less explicit and more supernatural interpretation and excised the reference. Although the Italian, Spanish, French and German dubbings retain it.so I think he wanted you to figure it out as to what makes you happy... share
Interesting. Which scene was this?
"There is no inner peace. There is only nervousness and death." - Fran Lebowitz
The ending is thought provoking. A lot of people say The Stranger is a ghost of Marshal Jim Duncan. He could also be a simple man haunted by the dead marshal or he could be the dead Marshal's brother or he has the same name as Marshal Duncan.
shareanother factor is when he stays at the hotel he won't write his name in the book
share@OP:
There is no evidence in the film itself to support the idea that The Stranger is Duncan's brother or anyone else. He's either a) Jim Duncan's ghost or b) a sort of supernatural manifestation of the town's guilty conscience. It's Eastwood's line to Mortecai ("Yes, you do.") that kind of narrows the field quite a bit. The fact that Eastwood threw that conversation onto the end of the film shows he didn't mean to keep it open-ended. I personally would have preferred if he had skipped that final scene and just had him ride off with zero explanation, literally fading out into the mirage.
"There is no inner peace. There is only nervousness and death." - Fran Lebowitz
I think the "yes you do" line, along with everything else that has been brought up leads to only one conclusion: The Stranger is Satan. I can't imagine any other way of interpreting it, and the film presents it that way brilliantly.
share
"I can't imagine any other way of interpreting it..."
*Yes, I'll add Beezelbub/Satan/The Devil to my previous two ideas, but saying it's the ONLY conclusion is a bit too narrow, isn't it? I mean, Mordecai is carving Jim Duncan's name right onto the headstone when Eastwood says, "Yes, you do," and the camera does a slow close-up of the headstone. Now, Eastwood could have had that last line be, "I'm Jim Duncan," and it would be spelled right out. Eastwood wants closure, but of a specific kind - he's narrowed the choices, but hasn't declared one as the "correct" answer. That's a nice touch to the film.
"There is no inner peace. There is only nervousness and death." - Fran Lebowitz
I'm convinced: Ernest Tidyman=M. Night Shyamalon
"Don't make me come down there"_GOD
"I'm convinced: Ernest Tidyman=M. Night Shyamalon "
Well as he wrote it clint was the brother of the sheriff It was Clint himself
that made the mystical ending, he wanted people to make up there own mind.
However Clint points out that he played the brother of the sheriff.
"Only one conclusion: The Stranger is Satan".
Satan sure has a great sense of justice, then.
"facts are stupid things" - Ronald Reagan
Some excellent points made here. I'd like to add my take on it, as the movie really got me thinking and by the end of it I was left with no confusion as to what the intended meaning was.
First off, I watched the movie already having heard the general concensus that 'The Stranger' was a ghost. With that in mind, very soon after the beginning, I couldn't help to the growing idea in my mind that 'The Stranger' was actually behaving more like what can be best described as satan himself, with events being executed pretty much without his initiative, resulting in the wicked characters succumbing to their own evil and perishing as a result.
Some reasons for that are as follows (many have been pointed out by previous posters):
1. Unlimited pure evil and cruelty of the Stranger - from forced sex to blatant disregard of the human life and more. Particularly when the hotel owner's wife tells him that she didn't know the extent of Stranger's cruelty and his reply "You still don't".
I agree that it would be unfitting for the spirit of the marshall, killed for his righteousness, to come back from the dead just to act with such nihilistic attitude.
2. Price for the services - Townspeople agreed to give anything at all to save themselves from the consequences of the past. As it was pointed out, the theme of satan making deals in exchange for souls pops into mind. Not the wealth, not the beauty, not religion can save one from being consumed by evil. Townspeople themselves end up painting, 'staining', the town red;
Priest: "I hope you don't mean the church"
Stranger: "Especially the church"
3. Numerous times throughout the movie the people exclaim that the Stranger is setting them against each other. Looking carefully, characters really do meet their doom on their own accord. The Stranger never goes out of his way to pursue or punish anyone, they all come to him on their own initiative. The Stranger doesn't seem to be set on revenge either: he was passing through and was set on moving on if not for the trouble that he was welcomed with in town.
Sarah Belding: "People are afraid of you"
Stranger: "It's what people know about themselves inside that makes them afraid"
4. Regarding the ending and what most attribute to conclusively identifying the Stranger as a ghost of the killed marshal, i.e. dead don't rest without marker, putting tombstone on Duncan's grave; I personally feel that it's an obvious, albeit very effective screen writing trick utilized to leave the ending as open as possible and hence fathom the discussion and hype that inadvertantly follows. Duncan's murder is what started it all for the townspeople, it's only natural to finish the theme with a symolic closing.
The case for the ghost is certainly a strong one and I can see how the viewers' desire for justice makes it an appealing thought, but considering the aforesaid I feel it would be too literal and too simplistic. As said previously, whatever the Stranger really may have been, he was pure *beep*ing evil.
So after all the carnage and bloodshed, without even a lick of conscience from the Stranger, I had an answer to Mordecai's final question "I never did get your name" before I even had a chance to think. Admittedly, it wasn't Jim Duncan.
Finally, as Eastwood himself pointed out, the main theme of the movie is an allegory of actions and their consequences. What better way to portray this if not through the figure of satan and hell. I'm not religious and still the thought kept buzzing in my head as the story went on. I can only imagine the effect it might have on people that actually believe in such stuff.
To close, a friend of mine, who happens to be a devout Christian once told me a story about once having been pretty drunk and having an "argument with devil" on his deck. Upon naturally receiving no answer from the devil, he finally deciding to call it a night, stumbled to his bedroom and knocked over his alarm clock. He said the time was 11:34, but having picked up the digital alarm clock upside down he told me he stayed up all night praying.
Now if I were writing a screenplay for a movie with the knowledge that substantial number of potential audience were people like my friend, I certainly wouldn't hesitate to use the religious theme to cause a few chills in the audience.
Annnnnnnd you're wrong, as are all the other Satan theorists. First of all,, Eastwood is no intellectual giant who makes movies full of allegory. This movie is a simple thriller of the seventies, made to entertain the drive in crowds. It wasn't a competitor for awards, it was made to generate money.
And most of all, the entire movie is about justice against the evil citizens of the town - the traditional definition of "Satan" would have no interest or part in this entire plot. At the end, ALL the EVILDOERS have been vanquished - the "Satan" theory makes no sense AT ALL.
Another small moment that's easy to overlook: Clint gave all that candy to the Native American kids, and all those blankets to their parents. In part he was trying to irritate the shopkeep, but I say it was also because Clint is still capable of kindness. (If Clint had precious little kindness to share with most of the townspeople, well, they kind of brought that upon themselves.)
While Satan's job might be punishing the wicked, that's his job when he's in hell. Here on earth he's more about encouraging wickedness, and if he was incarnated anywhere in this film, I'd say it was in the form of the preacher who could quote the Bible to justify the worst in the townspeople. (Funny thing, that: the ultimate trickster is likely to take forms you won't expect, to make you comfortable with your sins.)
He isn't just nice to the Indians, he's nice to the Mexican workers, to the dwarf and eventually to the innkeeper's wife. He is down with the underdogs and against the corrupt authorities and cowards.
shareAnnnnnnnd you're wrong
the traditional definition of "Satan" would have no interest or part in this entire plot. At the end, ALL the EVILDOERS have been vanquished - the "Satan" theory makes no sense AT ALL.