MovieChat Forums > Kelly's Heroes (1970) Discussion > *A bunch of dishonourable rat bags!

*A bunch of dishonourable rat bags!

posted 4 years ago by [deleted]
14 replies | jump to latest

For such a good cast, including Eastwood of course, I really kind of disliked most of the characters, not entirely sure why, maybe it’s because they were all thieves, partaking in a war run by thieves.

There seemed to be no honour in any of them, and my ‘favourite’ character was probably the German tank commander in the finalé, after all, he was expected to be a thief as a ‘Nazi.’

Many soldiers had died, and all these rat bags cared about was themselves, Eastwood included! *

[–] whynotwriteme (7817) 4 years ago

How old are you? I've observed that almost nobody under about 40 understands the appeal of the anti-hero. This style of protagonist was HUGE in the late 60s-early 70s. Anyone who was of age then or who later grew up in the 70s-80s watching these movies on TV think of characters like Kelly's Heroes, The Wild Bunch, The Dirty Dozen etc. the way kids today think of The Avengers.

Being an anti-hero is all about sticking it to The Man and being a bad-ass. You don't have to be rescuing the orphans or delivering the plague serum to have an excuse to kick ass and take names if you're an anti-hero.

If Suicide Squad is good for anything at all, maybe it will serve as a re-introduction of the wonderful anti-hero movie genre.

[–] [deleted] 4 years ago

Nah, soldiers are not cowboys or your silly ‘superheroes’ - soldiers are supposed to have honour & serve their country, not be a bunch of thieving little rat bags! *

[–] whynotwriteme (7817) 4 years ago

The Dirty Dozen was about rat-bag soldiers, and it was extremely popular. Sven Hassel's series of novels was about dirty ratbag Nazis and it was one of the top-selling men's adventure book series in the 1970s. You either get the appeal of the anti-hero or you don't.

[–] [deleted] 4 years ago

I liked ‘The Dirty Dozen’ - but there’s a key difference between the two movies...

‘Kelly’s Heroes’ is a movie about greed, whereas ‘The Dirty Dozen’ is a movie about redemption!

Sure, soldiers in both movies are ‘anti-heroes’ - in that they don’t fit are stereotypical view of what it is to be a ‘hero’ - but in ‘TDD’ the soldiers are offered a chance to redeem themselves & help the ‘war effort’ - so you root for them, & care when each one is shot down in the finalé, whereas in ‘KH’ they’re just out to fill their boots, pure greed, heck they even side with the Germans & split the money, so who do you root for, care for?

I realise this movie was made with it’s tongue firmly in it’s 70’s cheek, but it’s tone is all over the place, it doesn’t know what it wants to be, it’s poorly directed, overly long & has anything but ‘hero’ or ‘anti-hero’ qualities, and so should have been renamed ‘KELLY’S RATBAGS.’ *

[–] whynotwriteme (7817) 4 years ago

But at least the self-centered thieves of Kelly's Heroes didn't massacre dozens of people, including civilian women, by trapping them in a vault and dumping gasoline and grenades on their heads.

I'd feel much better about myself if I just wanted to get rich, rather than "redeeming" myself through executing a bunch of women by fire.

[–] [deleted] 4 years ago

How do you know 'Kelly's Heroes didn't massacre dozens of people' - how ?
It's quite plausible that this bunch of rat bags did indeed commit many atrocities before turning their wicked intentions towards theft.

Let's just cut to the chase Oddball, you like Kelly's Heroes & I'm happy for you, but I think it's a stinking, misguided, poorly written, poorly acted & poorly directed pile of rat bags.

HOWEVER, it does have ONE redeemable feature, 'Burning Bridges' by Lalo Schifrin!

I do like a song you can singalong too...

'All the burning bridges that have fallen after me...' *

[–] whynotwriteme (7817) 4 years ago

How do you know 'Kelly's Heroes didn't massacre dozens of people' - how ?
It's quite plausible that this bunch of rat bags did indeed commit many atrocities before turning their wicked intentions towards theft.

If it didn't happen on screen, and was not referred to in dialogue, it's a non-issue.

Yeah, that's a cool song. I used to play it on my dad's 8 track when I had battles on the floor with my Army Men.

[–] [deleted] 4 years ago

'If it didn't happen on screen, and was not referred to in dialogue, it's a non-issue.'

...but it is, becasue you stated that 'Kelly's Heroes didn't massacre dozens of people' - which is a point you can't ultimately prove, thus leaving my point of conjecture open.

More than anything in all the posts we've bounced back and forth, your comment about playing your 'dad's 8 track when I had battles on the floor with my Army Men' is truly a wonderful comment, & to that I salute you!

Further, in honour of your comment, I promise to watch 'Kelly's Heroes' again over the coming weeks with a fresh perspective & try to give it some love, I promise :) *

('whispering' though I still think they're a bunch of rat bags :)

[–] moviechatterer (16326) 4 years ago

So what did you think about "Three Kings" ?

Clooneys character went to some effort to explain that saddam had already stolen the gold , so it was fine for those three to steal it from him and their consciounces would be nice and clean.

same could be said for Kellys Heroes.

[–] [deleted] 4 years ago

I've never seen it, so I can't really comment, not the biggest Clooney fan I'm afraid, although I did like his short scene in 'Thin Red Line' - now there's a great movie!

However, I will answer the question, as far as I know, it was never alluded too, that the gold that 'Kelly's Heroes' were planning to snatch, was itself originally stolen, although it may well have been please do correct me if I'm wrong, but the fact remains, even if it was, it's still not their gold to steal for their own personal gratification!

Ultimately, I just dislike the tone of the film, I despise greed.

When you watch an Eastwood movie, you root for him because he's out to take the bad guys down, not make a deal with him!

I just vision Eastwood & his team of RAT BAGS laying on a beach in Argentina, with the rest of the defected Nazi's, drinking fine wine & getting fat, while some of their fellow comrades had their heads blown off on D-Day.

Life isn't about pleasure, life is about 'loving one another' & not exhalting oneself with greed.

My guess is when the dust settled, 'Kelly's Heroes' would have turned on each other anyway, eventually greed does this to a man, i guess it's a culmination of all those negative waves man! *

[–] wearsalan (5554) 4 years ago

As the other poster says, these kind of movies were popular at the time. Other movies include Thunderbolt and Lightfoot and The Italian Job.
Just to add to your notion that soldiers were supposed to be honourable etc...a lot of these guys didn't sign up voluntarily they were conscripted, which means the army got all sorts of ne'er do wells as well as good ordinary people. In the case of KH you have people who have lost friends in a war where they were ordered to walk towards death when natural instinct would be to walk the other way.

Guess they felt they were owed something.

[–] whynotwriteme (7817) 4 years ago

I think public reaction to the Vietnam War had a huge part in establishing the popularity of the anti-hero. As for myself, I think Vietnam was justified, but I still love antihero movies.

[–] [deleted] 4 years ago

Theft is never justified, never, by definition it's taking something that doesn't belong to you.

Turning the seriousness level down alittle, to answer the rest of your comment, ultimately it comes down to what makes a good movie, & for me, for reasons which I've already stated, 'Kelly's Heroes' is a mess with rather 'unlovable' characters.

I love both 'Thunderbolt & Lightfoot' and 'The Italian Job' - the characters are well written and sharp, and they're not soldiers. I stand by the fact that a soldiers job is not to steal for their own gratification. Of course 'Kelly's Heroes' most likely thought they were 'owed something' - just like millions more who suffered during WWII, but would you really have wanted any of these RAT BAGS in your trench ?!

Greed as no bounds, & as I said in my last post, my guess is these RAT BAGS would have eventually turned on each other, 'too much is never enough' when it comes to greed.

Apologies for all the negative waves man. *

[–] Wuchak (8855) 2 years ago

Many soldiers had died, and all these rat bags cared about was themselves

Earlier in the film, Big Joe's squad all agreed to Kelly's mission and the risks thereof. One soldier even states (paraphrased), "We've been risking our lives every day for this war, might as well do it for ourselves for a change."

a movie about greed... made with it’s tongue firmly in it’s 70’s cheek, but it’s tone is all over the place, it doesn’t know what it wants to be, it... has anything but ‘hero’ or ‘anti-hero’ qualities

Yes, the flick is a war comedy and the title "Kelly's Heroes" is absolute irony. Just as in "What Did You Do in the War, Daddy?" (1966), the general (Carroll O'Connor in both films) amusingly mistakes the misdeeds of Allied soldiers as brave, selfless combat; and thus arrives on the scene to commend them.

These men are passionately going above and beyond the call of duty for... totally selfish gain. Even the German tank commander can be reasoned with on this basis. It's the very foundation of the amusement. The viewer isn't necessarily supposed to like the protagonists so much as understand them because we can all relate to the less noble side of human nature.

You're right about the dubious tone, but I thought the creators did a good job of balancing the zany humor with the deadly serious war action. It shouldn't work, but somehow it does (for me & many others anyway) and this reflects skillful filmmaking.

The protagonists fit the description of antiheroes (or picaros). Speaking of which, there's this myth going around that Leone's Dollars trilogy introduced the concept of the antihero, otherwise known as the "good (or likable) bad man." Actually, the antihero had been around for decades (more like millennia) when "Fistful" was released in '64. Take, for example, John Wayne's Ringo Kid in "Stagecoach" (1939) or Widmark's Comanche Todd in "The Last Wagon" (1956) or Quinn's Bob Kallen in "The Ride Back" (1957) and, particularly, Brando's Kid Rio in "One-Eyed Jacks" (1961).