OK,you've got some nice Tiger pictures but it still would be near madness to voluntarily deploy those things in a small village.
Well the experienced tank ace Michael Wittmann did it and so did other experienced tankers of his unit. Whether it was madness or not is up for debate.
The main reason those beasts were in those villages was because they could hide rather easily there from the feared fighter-bombers.
That's not true at all. They were on the attack. They were there because Michael Wittmann saw an entire British armoured column sneaking through the village in an attempt to outflank the town of Caen and bust through German lines.
The Tigers actually came out of the cover of trees to advance into the town.
Wittmann reacted quickly. He broke from the cover of a sunken country lane just outside the town and attacked the British armoured column coming along the road. Once that column was stopped he then steamed into the village of Villers Bocage itself to try and destroy as many enemy tanks and other vehicles as possible before a British anti tank gun eventually immobilised the running gear of his Tiger (which was later recovered).
A short while later a group of Tigers with some Panzer IVs entered the village to engage the British armour and both sides suffered losses but the British had to withdraw and give up on their plan to out flank Caen from the south west.
The actions of Wittmann and his Tigers (though costly for themselves) completely prevented a British out flanking manuever through Villers Bocage and into Caen and put the British advance back for about a month.
It was a vital interception from Michael Wittmann and his Tigers and the British had no idea there were even any Tigers there becuase the Tigers had only arrived at the front line the night before (it had taken the Tigers nearly a week to reach the front).
As your pictures show anyway fighting it out with enemy infantry in such confined spaces could turn out rather nasty for a Tiger. His best environment was hidden in some small woods overseeing a wide open space giving excellent vision for his mighty '88.
Well of course. The preferable terrain for a Tiger was open country where they could use their long range gun to it's best effect. No argument from me there. You are right.
I was just pointing out that Tigers
WERE used in a small town like in Kelly's Heroes if the situation was serious enough to warrant it.
Witmman and his Tigers at Villers Bocage considered the situation serious enough to go into action in a small town to prevent a British advance breaking through German lines and outflanking Caen.
Tigers fighting in a small town
DID happen.
In fact I would say the Tiger scenes in both Kelly's Heroes and Saving Private Ryan were possibly inspired by the real life battle of Villers Bocage.
But anyway, the Tigers in Kelley's Heroes were not expecting to see action. They were 30 miles behind the front line and were just 'guarding' the bank. No doubt if they had any inclination that enemy forces were coming they likely would have deployed outside the village under cover of trees or bushes and waited for the oncoming enemy.
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pete36
13 years ago
Well, a nice history lesson but couldn't you have provided a map or something to make things more clear ? Anyway, I know of this action by Wittman at Villers Bocage and he did stop almost an entire British brigade but it still was sheer madness to move into that town, especially with no infantry support. His Tigers were relatively quickly picked of, some by British soldiers with PIAT's. His own Tiger was also taken out. I remember also that Wittman and/or his crew took then some Panzer Fausts and knocked themselves out a few more Brtish tanks. Proof that without infantry support heavy tanks best remain clear of villages and towns.
In "Saving Private Ryan" the Tigers were clearly supported by SS infantry. The town itself was almost completely reduced to rubble so they got some better visbility anyway. In "Kelly's" the whole town was still standing, causing zero visibility and there was almost no supporting infantry. Sutherland's Sherman even manages to take out a Tiger, just because the Tiger's barrel got stuck in one of those narrow streets !
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BuddyLove63
13 years ago
Well, a nice history lesson but couldn't you have provided a map or something to make things more clear ?
I'm not aware of one online. That's what books are for.
Anyway, I know of this action by Wittman at Villers Bocage and he did stop almost an entire British brigade but it still was sheer madness to move into that town, especially with no infantry support.
He acted on the spur of the moment when he saw a British column sneaking through German lines. And his actions worked.
Madness? I'd say bravery and extremely quick thinking. That's why he was a successful tank commander.
His Tigers were relatively quickly picked of, some by British soldiers with PIAT's.
They weren't.
Only one Tiger was lost in that first battle involving Wittmann and it was his own tank. It was later recovered and repaired.
It was the second battle that day (which Wittmann was not involved in) where more Tigers, this time from the 1st company (Wittmann was 2nd company)were lost. Those Tigers actually had infantry support from grenadiers of Panzer Lehr by then. Also Panzer IVs of Panzer Lehr were helping.
I remember also that Wittman and/or his crew took then some Panzer Fausts and knocked themselves out a few more Brtish tanks. Proof that without infantry support heavy tanks best remain clear of villages and towns.
That's not true. He never did that. Wittmann said he 'could' have taken out more British tanks if he'd had an anti tank weapon but seeing as he didn't have any it was with a heavy heart that he had to let them be.
In "Saving Private Ryan" the Tigers were clearly supported by SS infantry. The town itself was almost completely reduced to rubble so they got some better visbility anyway. In "Kelly's" the whole town was still standing, causing zero visibility and there was almost no supporting infantry.
Um there was infantry in the town. Kelly's Heroes took them out, remember? The brown building housed the supporting infantry. After the supporting infantry was shot to pieces the Tigers were then left on their own but as they had orders to guard the bank they weren't about to bugger off. They remained there.
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pete36
13 years ago
OK : Wittman's personal list of trophies of the famous battle of Villers-Bocage : 12 tanks (Shermans & Cromwells), 14 M3 halftracks, 12 Bren Carriers, a Scout Car and some more. Not bad for a day's work I would say. He got the oak leaves on top of his golden Iron Cross from Hitler himself. No need to be dissapointed then. When he got nearer to the centre of Villers-Bocage he got taken out by a British 6-pounder.
In the afternoon some other Tigers arrived who did further venture in the town and were almost immediately taken out, so they wisely withdrew to the outside of the town, letting the infantry finishing the job.
In "Kelly's Heroes" the so-called supporting infantry is taken out really quickly(this is a US movie after all) and remember that the Tigers were already IN the town. So it still is a madcap idea and a waste to put those heavy tanks in a village with such narrow streets to protect a building. Heavy infantry, artillery and some Panzerfausts would have been much more effective. But those Tigers look so good on the screen ofcourse.
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EastCoastMariner
13 years ago
A rather minor inaccuracy: Savalas would not have been serving in a rifle company as a Master Sergeant. If he were really "Big Joe" and in charge he would have been a 1st Sergeant.
Master Sergeants are battalion level NCOs and serve in advisory roles.
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