Question about the fate of the four at the end:
So they kill the sleazy general who kills Angel. Yet nobody else shoots at them. So why didn't they just walk away then?
It seems like they decided to do what they did on purpose. Am I right?
Absolutely.
shareObvious Spoiler Alert!
What i came away with was that what happened to Angel didn't sit well with any of them, they tried to put it off and they couldn't do it. So they decided to go in there and kill the General. Probably thinking once they blast him everyone will draw down on them and it will be the end of the line for them all, it's a respectable way for them to go out in the life they chose. But once they shot him everyone was caught off guard, didn't draw there guns in fear of getting shot and lets not forget they're drunk/hungover from partying pretty hard. So right there the "Wild Bunch" thought they could blast there way out.
"Happy birthday, Euclid"
I think at that point it was a cumulation of things. The way Angel had been treated, them realizing the general was scum, and being sick of being chased. They all just decided to go out in a haze of glory, that's why when Pike told them to leave Lyle (I think thats who it was) just simply stated "why not?"
RIP Paul Newman 1925-2008. Words can't express how much you will be missed.
Yeah i'm with you all the way here.
"Happy birthday, Euclid"
Their days were numbered. Why not go out with a bang instead of a whimper?
shareI think why nobody shot at them at first was the shock/confusion of the general being killed. The few seconds before the shoot out, The Wild Bunch all look at each other like "This is how it ends. We're going out, so let's go out shooting". You notice right after that, Pike shoots The German officer and then the bullets start to erupt from both sides.
shareThey had already made the decision when waking up in the morning. Pike tells the Gorches "Let´s go" and they know instantly what he means. One of them replies "Why not?". And observe Pike leaving a whole bag of gold to the prostitute. They know they are not coming back.
shareBest answer above. They knew they were going to die when they started their walk. The General's men may have hesitated but there was no way Pike et al were going to walk out of there unscathed. Even if the General had given them Angel am not sure they would have gotten very far. They disrespected the General and that was the end of the line for them and they knew that going in.
shareSo they kill the sleazy general who kills Angel. Yet nobody else shoots at them. So why didn't they just walk away then? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Watch the scene closely. After shooting the General, they could have walked away, unscathed. They all knew it.
But the look on Pike's face seemed to say "What do we have left?".
So he shot the German and they went out blazing.
Great movie.
I spend my money on dope, sex and cheap thrills.
The rest of it, I waste.
The whole movie was about sticking together.. If one man fell apart.. they all fell apart!
Pike's big thing was sticking together!!
and the bunch all believed in it...
remember the scene right at the beginning where they discover the "WASHERS/steel rings".. they were ready to shoot each other up for more gold share! well, at the end it didnt matter how much gold they had they wanted to stick together or they had nothing!!
Dutch said it best.. its not about giving your word.. but who you give it too!
As soon as they lost Angel and Dutch went back to meet up with the guys they were all MAD and didnt discuss money they wanted Angel back!
Anyways when the General had Angel.. the Mexicans were very adamant to not let the bunch have him.. the mexicans said leave him there or the general will be pissed... THERE WAS A STAND-OFF PAUSE and the general just laughed and so the bunch just stood there and watched one of their guys getting beaten to death (dragged behind the car).
PIKE even offered his share of gold to get Angel back.. General said hes not giving him up..
When they went with the hookers, all of them kept thinking how the general got away with it and how low they all felt (falling apart).. and how Angel kept his word right to the end..
So they went to get Angel back, NO MATTER WHAT IT TOOK!
after the General got blasted...(look at the look on the bunch's faces.. THEY WERE TOGETHER AS A GROUP AGAIN) Pike got greedy and killed the german soldier who was helping the mexicans... showing them that the bunch got the last laugh........ The rest is history
The moral of this movie is the bunch learned at the end that sticking together was more important to them than the gold!
Dont forget the ending scene wasnt the first time they wanted Angel.. they had to argue with the general after Angel killed the woman sitting on the generals lap.
BUT then the mexicans knew not to mess with the group till they finished the steling of the guns job.
And Pike kills the german guy after the General.. cause the german was the generals right hand man!
Pike killed the German officer out of spite because he represented the one thing the Bunch had come to fear and hate the most- modern times (and the fact the west they knew and loved was dead).
share<<<Watch the scene closely. After shooting the General, they could have walked away, unscathed. They all knew it.
But the look on Pike's face seemed to say "What do we have left?".>>>
---------------------------
Exactly, Doobienick. They'd been outlaws and just as bad as the General. Now they had the chance to do something right in their lives and go out as "good" men. Pike killed the German adviser as a means to right some wrongs. Battling the General's army would help Angel's people fight their war of independence.
This is a film about bad men redeeming themselves. Redemption is a powerful force in our culture. When it is coupled with a great film, it leaves a mark.
Killing the German adviser stopped him from passing information about US guns to his government. So, the Bunch's actions also helped the US. Not that the Bunch cared about that.....
"Two more swords and I'll be Queen of the Monkey People." Roseanne
you honestly think that after killing the general.. ALL those mexicans would just let them walk out???
NO WAY
The head of the cobra had been cut off and the Mexicans didn't know what to do, they were in shock, it was the bunch who took the initiative and started the ball.
shareThey were in shock for the moment - I mean I can hardly blame them for not expecting four guys to march into town and being shocked that they'd dare to gun down their boss in front of everyone. Keep in mind also that a lot of the soldiers were sleeping and/or drunk (seemed to be siesta time judging from the Bunch's march through town) so they didn't even know anything was going on until the shots were fired.
Even if the Bunch had tried to just walk out, they're still affectively surrounded by 150 well-armed Mexican soldiers. All it would take was one trigger-happy private (or revenge-seeking officer) and the whole situation would explode. The Bunch decided to go out on their terms rather than wait for the soldiers to retake control of the situation.
"I do NOT want your tawdry tales of office lust infecting my newsroom!"
Revenge seeking officer? I don't know, any officer close enough to Mapache would see it as an opportunity to occupy the now vacant spot of El General. Fierce loyalty among those characters is not something Peckinpah presents or prescribes to. And the gringo mercenaries who have proved quite useful so far might just be some good guys to have on your side of the fence as an incomcing warlord. That shocked pause after they do it does seem to indicate that they very well may have been able to just walk out had everyone kept their head. As easily as one of the Mexican soldiers could have started firing, one of the officers could just as easily have calmed the situation and negotiated with the Bunch as part of his assuming power. It literally could have gone any way, but it's important to the story and it's themes that it's the Bunch who aggressively perpetuate it, rather than simply go out defending themselves against a retaliatory attack.
shareyou honestly think that after killing the general.. ALL those mexicans would just let them walk out???
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Agree, there was no way out of that predicament even if they managed to leave the compound they wouldn't have got far. Imagine if they got away everybody would have been screaming "plot hole!" "impossible!" and they would be right.
But the look on Pike's face seemed to say "What do we have left?".>>>
---------------------------
Exactly, Doobienick. They'd been outlaws and just as bad as the General. Now they had the chance to do something right in their lives and go out as "good" men. Pike killed the German adviser as a means to right some wrongs. Battling the General's army would help Angel's people fight their war of independence.
This is a film about bad men redeeming themselves. Redemption is a powerful force in our culture. When it is coupled with a great film, it leaves a mark.
---
There are the immediate realizations that "this is it" and they will go down fighting(from the time they put on their guns and march to the conflict, they know they will likely die)...but...in Pike's case, thanks to the flashbacks restored in a later cut of the film, we realize: Pike just can't take the guilt anymore. We see that he got Deke Thornton sent to prison and in another flashback that he got a woman he loved, killed...and now he's given up Angel to sacrifice(even if Angel started it by killing the ex-lover).
The film also takes up the always-tough moment for middle-aged men that "this is as good as it gets, I'm never going to get the life that I thought I would get." Pike talks to Dutch about "backing off" of his outlaw ways, and Dutch replies: "Back off to what?" As with Butch Cassidy and The Sundance Kid of the same year, these aging outlaws realize that they've played out their string. Butch and Sundance rather get chased down and cornered; Pike and the Bunch at least make the decision to ENTER the Valley of Death. (CONT)
(CONT) Butch and Sundance are younger guys; Pike is older, burned out, done, at the end. Its rather a surprise that he convinces the other three to join him in death, but Dutch is his friend to the end, Lyle and Tector Gorch just aren't all that smart; and Pike's credo "You stick together" seems to bond them in death. Regardless of their ages, each member of The Wild Bunch comes to realize that they've pretty much run out of options in life.
Indeed, beneath the controversy of the blood in The Wild Bunch, there comes at that ending something even darker: a vicarious enjoyment on the part of the audience(perhaps particularly the male audience, and not just the older male audience) with the "fantasy of suicide." Escaping the bleakness and depression of this earth -- and taking some others with you(as too many of our psycho suicidal mass shooters do today). And Pike CHOOSES suicide("Let's go") and Gorch AGREES ("Why not?") The suicide angle of The Wild Bunch is controversial: its almost comforting and inspirational. Which is not good, but there it is, anyway.
I think they were grimly acknowledging that they weren't going to be welcome in the new world. Their kind was dying out, so they might as well go out on their own terms in their own idiom.
Now, that is tragic, and I think the dark, melancholy of that decision rests on Deke's shoulders (hence the scene of him sitting for hours outside the gate).
The controversy over the violence in the film: I don't get it. Watching this movie seems pretty clear to me that these are not "good guys" and the shots of chaos and collateral damage - civilians are almost always embroiled in their destruction - plus the empty deaths they all seek at the end... It's an epic dedicated to showing the futility of violence and its inevitably-tragic outcomes.
The silver lining is, as you say, that they get to pick their own end and that there is some nobility to avenging their friend Angel. But those are not reasons enough to justify the madness of carnage.
Watch the scene closely. After shooting the General, they could have walked away, unscathed. They all knew it.
But the look on Pike's face seemed to say "What do we have left?".
So he shot the German and they went out blazing.
Well hell yeah they wanted to go down swinging. C'mon... the film is not
called 'The Wild Bunch,' not 'The Mild Bunch!'
--
"I am serious... and don't call me 'Shirley!'"
spoiler alert?
shareThanks for the spoiler, tosser.
_____________________________
"Knowing how the world works
Is not knowing how to work the world"