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Actors talking about their characters just didn't work for me


I was a bit shocked when, in the middle of the film, a snippet of an interview took place about what the actor thought of their character. In a way, it was helpful to me because it put into words what I was tring to work out but in another way, it was so unnecessary and really unorthodox. Surely, we are meant to be drawing our own conclusions about the characters and not 'spoon fed' like this?

I am new to Ingmar's work - this is only the second one I have watched and the first one was 'Shame'. It is clear he is a master of the camera, his techniques are really effective and I love the end of 'The Passion' when the image of Andreas stalking the landscape just fades away into a grainy white - I don't think I've ever seen that before. Does anyone know what that technique is called?

So both 'The Passion' and 'Shame' are artistic in their way but the characters are so miserable, I found it tiresome to watch. And the location depressed me too. Anyone else feel like this?

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Most people here seem to like it very much, but of the 13 Bergman films I've seen so far (watched as a big fan) this is my least favourite. Thematically its focus is too narrow, the characters are too dull and the style depends too much on dialogue. The sub plot about the animal cruelty should have been worked out better and the interviews with the actors is just plain silly. Overall the film is rather aimless, I get the feeling Bergman made it merely to deal with his break up with Ullmann.

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I agree with the OP. I think he was influenced the the 60s 'experimental mood'. There's a few other trendy film techniques from the late 60s/early 70s that probably seemed ahead of their time, but ultimately seem very dated today. The quick zooming closeup, the split second shot of some nonesense having nothing to do with the movie... stuff like that.

Another movie that throws you for an even bigger loop is Jean Luc Goddard's 'Sympathy for the Devil'. A great documentary on the Stones recording the song, but interspersed with scenes of the Black Panther and some other revolutionary nonsense that. That ruined it for me.

Love's turned to lust and blood's turned to dust in my heart.

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ktown,

You said in Sympathy for the Devil Godard's interspersing the scenes in question "ruined" viewing that film for you.

Are you saying that the interviews included RUINED The Passion?

Seems like a rather extreme reaction if so.

Personally, the interview scenes are not necessary, and therefor arguably distracting without serving a corresponding beneficial purpose. But I did not find them distracting myself.

It is interesting how some in today's generally conservative environment see experimentalism as a kind of dirty word, though. As if someone experimenting with something has done somethnig outlandish.

Strange times we are living in...

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"Seems like a rather extreme reaction if so. "

Yes, I went a little overboard with my use of words, "ruined it for me". I'd agree they interviews in Anna are a big distraction. They are a huge distraction in Sympathy, almost like there are two movies chopped apart and spliced together. I'd like to see the 'Sympathy only' version, which would be excellent.

Love's turned to lust and blood's turned to dust in my heart.

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Ftr I am even inclined to think that the interviews may have a positive value, after all.

I think up to now, like many I believe who have commented on their inclusion, I have considered the value, or absence thereof, of their inclusion partly in terms of the content of them, and whether such value overcomes the objection that they break the presentation.

But it occurs to me that Passion is filled with many breaks of different sorts. There is Bergman's narration, with parts of the narration coming at certain times, but mostly the film does not have narration, even at times it well might. (the timing of when he narrates is in itelf a fascinating aspect of this film.) Of course WHEN Bergman does include narration, it always adds. But I also think every time he does, as voice overs do in general, it however subtly acts to take us out of the diagetic.

Abrupt cutting to another scene also can have the same effect. This is also I think intentional.

Think of the time in this film when we move from the opening understanding of Andreas's character. First we have the opening, with him rather sloppily pacthign the roof, allowing cement to slide down tiles and not being cleaned up, the bucket falling and him first picking it up, then leaving it on the ground, the decision to ride his bike and begin an aimless wandering, his seemingly gratuitous (although it seems less gratuitous later) exchange of pleasantries with Johann, and of course his pretending to leave Anna alone so that he can surreptitously overhear her phone conversation, his slight leer as she leaves, and his rifling through her purse, reading her letter. By then we picture our apparent protagonist as a sketchy and untrustworthy person.

But then Bergman moves to a walk through the forest, the discovery of the hanging dog, Andreas saving the dog, and treating it tenderly in his home. Now we have reason to question who Andreas really is.

I think Bergman is doing two things here. One is to make it clear that he knows as well as us that this is only a story, and his story, but he also does so in ways that undercut what we think is going on, to make us question our previous "understanding". I think the interviews are part of that. Even the content of the interviews contributes to this undercutting. For example how reliable, how accurate, are what the actors say about their characters? Is some of what is said accurate, and other not accurate? Is what each say the same as Bergman's own view of the characters?

Many viewers of this film also question the purpose of the whole subplot involving animal torture and killing. The viewer wonders if one of our central four characters (as well as Johann, who is explicitly addressed as the possible source), is behind those acts. this also subtly leads the viewer to question the "understanding" of each of them that we derive solely from the acts exhibited by them in the diagetic. I think this is one of the reasons the animal subplot is included, as part of the way the film so often challenges our set perceptions.

Bergman's approach here, throughout the film, is brilliant. The first time I saw Passion I thought it was a less experimental, and more conventional, film certainly than Persona. Even more conventional than films like The Silence or Shame. But I think in fact it is at least on one level a very unconventional film, in a way that works. In fact and in many ways what it says about perception is arguably even more significant than in Persona, The Silence, and other films like Hour of the Wolf.

In short, I have come to the view that the interviews are a positive element in the film.

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I did quite like it the first time that I watched it, but I agree with the general sentiment that it requires you to think much less about what you're seeing, and for that reason, on rewatches it definitely detracts from the experience.

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VWiA6BGfasA

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