This is how I understand it from various sources:
Yes, "Once Upon a Time in the West" was supposed to be the fourth and last Dollars movie. It would concern the revelation that everything Il Straniero/Joe/Manco/Blondie/Man With No Name did in the previous movies was all sort of a training for a revenge duel with Frank (presumably because Frank did to him what he did to Harmonica in the finished film). The problem is that on the set of "The Good, The Bad, and The Ugly," Eastwood and Leone had a huge fight that nobody seems to talk about often. I've heard that it was Eastwood finally having enough of the lackadaisical manner in which Italians made movies and I've heard it was Leone finally having enough of Eastwood cheating on his wife with his interpreter. Whatever the subject of the fight was, it is what ruined/ended the relationship between Leone and Eastwood. When it came time to make "Once Upon...", Leone flew to California to personally deliver the script to Eastwood, but Clint would not meet with him.
I've also read an interview with Lee Van Cleef where he revealed he was offered the role of Frank, but turned it down because he didn't like the script (and he didn't like the finished film either when he saw it).
So with his main star gone, Leone was forced to turn Il Straniero/etc into the new character Harmonica and go from there. Leone came up with the idea to have the three gunmen at the beginning of the film be cameos by Eastwood, Van Cleef, and Eli Wallach (though, they were never meant to be the Man With No Name, Angel Eyes, and Tuco--just three randos like in the finished film). It was both a gag and a storytelling device to show the audience, "You thought these guys were bad/cool... Harmonica's even worse/better!" Wallach was in for it. Eastwood was having none of it and Van Cleef turned it down too.
Leone continued to try to work with Clint; he wanted him for the James Coburn character in "Duck, You Sucker," but Eastwood wouldn't do it either.
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whynotwriteme (7720)
7 months ago
That's fascinating! I never knew any of that for a fact; and all those complex dynamics going on behind the scenes. I had heard SL wanted them to be the train station killers, but on the rest I was just guessing.
I must say I am glad Eastwood didn't do "Duck,You Sucker". Coburn did an excellent job as Sean and he's probably my favorite actor ever. Eastwood wouldn't have really shown all the emotion behind the character, I think.
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HellFire (561)
3 months ago
Eastwood's ego was too big to play Harmonica. Look at all of his westerns when he returned to Hollywood. They revolve completely around him.
In the original script for Joe Kidd, Luis Chama was supposed to have a more heroic role but Eastwood wanted it changed. Look at Pale Rider, how the father role basically has his balls cut off so that Eastwood can do all the heroics which was a stark contrast to the original, Shane.
I can't imagine Eastwood playing Harmonica which requires him to do a scene where he stands around doing nothing on the train while Cheyenne comes to rescue him.
But apart from all that, Bronson who I'm not the biggest fan of usually, was perfect as Harmonica. There's an effortless otherworldly quality about him that suited the role.
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MeYouFools (169)
3 months ago
"Eastwood's ego was too big to play Harmonica."
"I can't imagine Eastwood playing Harmonica"
And he didn't. But also, he was not slated to play Harmonica. He was meant to be the Man With No Name. Harmonica was invented when it became apparent Eastwood would have nothing more to do with Leone.
You're talking about something that never happened like it did. You're not wrong about Eastwood's ego (he was already pretty annoyed that Lee Van Cleef stole "For a Few Dollars More" away from him and Eli Wallach did same in GBU), but Leone didn't care about any of that and you're conflating things that are not germane.
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HellFire (561)
3 months ago
Even if I go along with your version of events which you've provided no actual proof or evidence of, unlike proper film historians like Christopher Frayling (the ultimate Sergio Leone expert) who have always said that OUATITW was NEVER supposed to have any connection with the Dollars trilogy because OUATITW wasn't satirical. West is a much more thoughtful, moody, sombre, and dare I say, realistic western than the Dollars films. Leone never even had any interest in making a fourth western because he felt as though he'd said everything he wanted to say with them, and instead wanted to focus on a gangster film until Paramount came to him with money. And Leone ended up making it in part as a love letter to the western genre, and in part, because he saw it as the first of a new trilogy - "The Once Upon A Time" trilogy which would conclude with his gangster film.
And he offered Eastwood to play (as the film stands, nothing to do with the Dollars films) Harmonica. But by that point he was sick of Leone's way of working. And I was making the point that I think ego would've also played a part because Eastwood in his Hollywood westerns where he had more control, didn't like other people doing the heroics.
Putting that aside, and going along with what you said, even if the four films were connected and he was just supposed to be playing "The Man With No Name" again, he would've still been called Harmonica just like he was referred to as Joe in AFOD, Manco in FAFDM, and Blondie in TGTBATU. He always had a name or a nickname.
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