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Was a German invasion of southeastern England even possible in 1940?


This question has been endlessly debated by military historians and wargamers for decades.

Was a German invasion of southeastern England even possible in 1940?
Could the Germans have even attempted a seaborne and amphibious assault?
What would have happened had the Germans tried?

I'd like to read everyone's informed opinions.

My version that I came across many years ago was that Hitler could have indeed actually attempted a forced entry into southeastern England with four German divisions. The problem would be the Royal Navy pinching off further German reinforcements and severing German cross-channel logistical support and resupply. The end result is the German invasion force being cut off and isolated thus being forced to retreat to their original beachhead if possible or some other point of egress.

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[deleted]

The Germans could have landed a few thousand paratroops during the night and taken Manston airfield in Thanet, for arguments sake, but what about re-supply?They were fortunate in Crete because the British inexplicably withdrew from Maleme when they had direct fire on the airfield preventing German mountain troops to land.The British would have come down on the German Paras like a ton of bricks and annihilated them ,as nearly happened on Crete, before any re-enforcements could arrive.The German paras were too lightly equipped and the British still had their rifles, although not much else.Granted,if we`d been landlocked with Germany we`d have gone the same way as the French.

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As one of the theorists, I should point out that my view is also that the British public had every reason to be afraid and every reason to believe it was true. I have never resiled from this.

They were not to be expected to know the true strategic situation. What they got, though not entirely inaccurate, was a view distilled through media reports which had been carefully manicured by the Home Office. It meant that much of the information - other than the outrageous claims of aircraft shot down - was actually up to two weeks old by the time the average punter read it. To be fair about the claims, even the RAF didn't know how many they had shot down, with many pilots claiming the same aircraft in a good many cases. Again, this was not done with any malfeasance in mind but as a result of extreme stress and a genuine belief in what they were saying.

And who was to know what the RN was up to? All the focus, in media and parliament, was on fighter pilots. Not saying they didn't deserve it either. Just that by comparison, the Navy was a little more pedestrian yet was every bit as important and got no coverage.

The precautionary measures - the blackout, the air raid shelters, the removal of signposts, the ploughing of fields and the work done to make piers and jetties inoperable - was a fair indication that Britons had a very significant threat on their doorstep.

The RAF was within two or three days of collapse from pilot fatigue.


Actually, this was an area the RAF focused on much more effectively than the Germans. At any given time, a third of RAF strength was away from the combat zone until pilots recuperated and the squadron strength was regained with replacement pilots.

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It must feel very comfortable to look back at WWII from 2014 and theorise about the German's chances of taking Britain. As one of the older posters, and being a Brit, I can assure the users of this thread that the Germans stood a very good chance of talking control of Britain in 1940.


No they didn't.

Once they had control of a few airbases,


Which they never ever even got REMOTELY close to doing.

they would have been ferrying troops in non-stop, and they would have hit the Brits as hard as they hit Poland.


No they wouldn't. Biggest obstacle was the channel then the beaches. Also much of the south east coast is sheer cliff. Germany didn't have the landing craft or navy. It took the western allies in 1944 some 7,000 vessels.

The key is the the British Army had virtually no weapons to fight with.


A myth. Dunkirk was June 1940. In the months after the weapons industry was stepping up in gear. It's not true to say the British army had virtually no weapons to fight with. British tank production in 1940 alone numbered in the thousands, few of which were sent to France.

The RAF was within two or three days of collapse from pilot fatigue.


Absolute myth. They were continuously rotated and rested. The Germans had it far worse, and what is more there were other fighter groups based elsewhere in the country that were not engaged in the Battle of Britain. Even if the souther fighter groups been wiped out, the fighter groups in the Midlands and north would have just taken over.

The Luftwaffe had it worse than the RAF. The Luftwaffe lost more planes and 4 times as many airmen. It was the Luftwaffe that was at breaking point more than the RAF.

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Not thousands of tanks, there were about as many built from September 1939 to June 1940 as had been built before the war.

http://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/UN/UK/UK-Civil-WarProduction/UK-Civil- WarProduction-3.html

p. 103

Marlon, Claudia and Dimby the cats 1989-2005, 2007 and 2010.

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That's an excellent article, Squeethie, thanks for posting it.

Trust me. I know what I'm doing.

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It shows that there were about as many new tanks in England as had been sent to France by the time of Dunkirk.

Marlon, Claudia and Dimby the cats 1989-2005, 2007 and 2010.

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It must feel very comfortable to look back at WWII from 2014 and theorise about the German's chances of taking Britain. As one of the older posters, and being a Brit, I can assure the users of this thread that the Germans stood a very good chance of talking control of Britain in 1940.


No they didn't.

Once they had control of a few airbases,


Which they never ever even got REMOTELY close to doing.

they would have been ferrying troops in non-stop, and they would have hit the Brits as hard as they hit Poland.


No they wouldn't. Biggest obstacle was the channel then the beaches. Also much of the south east coast is sheer cliff. Germany didn't have the landing craft or navy. It took the western allies in 1944 some 7,000 vessels.

The key is the the British Army had virtually no weapons to fight with.


A myth. Dunkirk was June 1940. In the months after the weapons industry was stepping up in gear. It's not true to say the British army had virtually no weapons to fight with. British tank production in 1940 alone numbered in the thousands, few of which were sent to France.

The RAF was within two or three days of collapse from pilot fatigue.


Absolute myth. They were continuously rotated and rested. The Germans had it far worse, and what is more there were other fighter groups based elsewhere in the country that were not engaged in the Battle of Britain. Even if the southern fighter groups been wiped out, the fighter groups in the Midlands and north would have just taken over.

The Luftwaffe had it worse than the RAF. The Luftwaffe lost more planes and 4 times as many airmen. It was the Luftwaffe that was at breaking point more than the RAF. By end of August 1940, the RAF actually had MORE fighter pilots than the Luftwaffe.

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No, it wasn't possible. Not in 1940. Fact is when France surrendered there was absolutely no plan, not even a consideration in fact, about launching a naval invasion of Great Britain. Hitler believed the UK would never continue the war. When it became apparent that a naval invasion might be necessary they had to scramble a plan relying on outdated information and no realistic way of carrying it out. It was a recipe for disaster.

Here's something to consider: The English channel and its treacherous waters has prevent many an invasion over the centuries. William the Conqueror had a lot of luck and a minor delay would have sunk his entire invasion fleet. Any invasion fleet would never consider launching after a certain date in September, when the waves become too high and the German landing ships would be defeated by the forces of nature long before they ever made it ashore. So Nazi Germany only had a few months to: 1. Decisively defeat RAF. 2. Find enough transport ships to even make a landing possible. 3. Hope everything goes to plan when they hadn't trained for this and never had attempted such a campaign before.

The Kriegsmarine wasn't ready for war when it broke out in 1939 and it could never challenge the Royal Navy on even terms in 1940. At this time the Royal Navy was the largest navy in the world, and the Americans only overtook its size in 1944.
Even IF the RAF had been knocked out Nazi Germany simple didn't have enough landing ships with which to land enough troops and equipment. They planned on using river barges from all over occupied Europe. Needless to say these bargest weren't anywhere near as seaworthy as the landing ships the allies used to invade Normandie in 1944. Most of these barges didn't even have their own propulsion and were supposed to be towed by other ships. Those who did have their own propulsion were so slow it would have taken 14 hours to cross from one shore to another - all while the Royal Navy attacks them with any war ship that floats. They wouldn't even have to shoot at them just drive past them and they'd founder and sink.

It was estimated by the Germany navy that they could land 9 divisions at most. It was also estimated that they needed three times as many divisions landed to make the invasion successful. The Kriegsmarine did NOT have the naval capacity to pull Operation Sea Lion off in 1940 - even if the RAF had somehow been knocked out.

Lots of transport aircraft were lost in the invasion of the Netherlands in 1940 and it was also doubtful Germany could land enough paratroopers.

The allies planned for Operation Overlord for over a year, had trained troops that had trained for months before and who had expertise with naval invasions (Operation Torch for instance in North Africa).

Once the Royal Navy gets to the beaches the invasion is over. Even if the Luftwaffe sinks a few of them they'd take a lot of Germans with them and their share numbers will win the day.

Had Operation Sea Lion been attempted in 1940, with no well-thought out plan or accurate information, without trained troops, without enough landing ships (slow river barges remember) and without enough ships to supply whatever small force they could land it would have ended in disaster with our without the RAF being there.

Time wasn't on the side of the Germans.

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I've discussed this enough to have come to the conclusion that the invasion of Britain was almost impossible.

There was a very VERY small chance that it would have been successful, but not enough to warrant the gamble.

Having said that, that conclusion comes AFTER the event. There were powerful, well learned US officials IN BRITAIN that thought invasion was a forgone conclusion and that Britain was doomed... and there were probably many extremely worried Brits as well, but post WWII history shows that the Germans just didn't have the experience or the equipment to land a sizable force in Britain.

Sure, British equipment was lacking, but it wasn't like the entire British army was left in Dunkirk.

So, my conclusion goes like this:

IF the Germans got decent air superiority over South Eastern England then there would have been a serious attempt at invasion, which would have dramatic ramifications on WWII. The Germans would have lost a LOT of valuable manpower in said invasion attempt. Some troops would have gotten ashore, but the RN would have made merry hell out of the invasion flotilla. That of course would have meant lots of His Majesty's Ship at the bottom of the English Channel, but it would have also stopped any decent invasion. Consider how Overlord went with overwhelming air superiority, and TOTAL control of the English Channel, and a not insignificant amount of experience in doing invasions from the sea.

So, we have a weakened German Army, which may inspire a more active Soviet threat. The RN would be dramatically reduced and a very VERY different 1942.


SpiltPersonality

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All it would have taken is to have an decent airbase in southeast England and the Germans could have poured men and equipment into England. The British army left their weapons and heavy guns at Dunkirk and they had not been replaced. The immediate objective would have been "to march down Whitehall" and impose surrender terms. Total defeat was not required. Hitler saw Britain as a "natural Ally". He wanted British soldiers on the Russian Front.

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The British still had several fully equipped divisions available for anti-invasion defence even immediately after Dunkirk. A regiment or two of German paras armed with nothing heavier than a handful of 8 cm mortars and short of ammo would be an easy British victory - assuming, of course, that Fighter Command hadn't already slaughtered them in the air.

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