MovieChat Forums > Oliver! (1968) Discussion > why the overblown musical numbers

why the overblown musical numbers

posted 14 years ago by shandy8
18 replies | jump to latest

I really liked this movie, and the songs were pretty good; however, I was annoyed when the artful dodger sang "Consider Yourself" it suddenly turned into a huge production with dancing butchers and scullery maids and who-knows-what who had nothing to do with the two boys. This happened again in "Who Will Buy This Wonderful Morning". Couldn't they have just done the song and leave it at that? Is this how it is in the stage play?
Otherwise, a pretty good movie!

"What do you want me to do, draw a picture? Spell it out!"

[–] 14 years ago

[deleted]

[–] DryToast 14 years ago

I think the reason why people comment on this aspect of these two big numbers -- and it's something of a problem on stage as well -- is that the relationship between the leading characters and the chorus is one of the most tenuous of all golden-age musicals. They are not friends or acquaintances of any of the characters, nor their guests, friendly neighbors, co-workers, wives, guards, fellow sailors, etc. They are just a random crowd that really has no reason to take part in the numbers, which has the potential of making them look a little silly.

The money is quickly spent but the shame remains.

[–] holbrookp 14 years ago

Chalk me up as still another person who doesn't think the scene works. I didn't think so when I saw it in 1968 and I thought it was even worse now when I just saw it on TV. I don't think the entire movie works very well as a musical either. Just my two cents worth.

"Truth is its own evidence." - Ralph Waldo Emerson

[–] TheCineSinge 11 years ago

I've just finished watching the film for the first time in over over ten years. It was on hard rotation in my childhood!

My heart soared upon hearing "Consider Yourself" again (and I remembered all the lyrics) but yes, I forgot it turned into a big, overblown and silly number.

To be honest, a fair bit of the film is like that and it more or less embodies exactly what I dislike about musicals in general but I think I'll always be able to forgive Oliver!

[–] fang123horn 11 years ago

I guess I feel the opposite, I loved it! I love that everyone dances in the street like that because its kind of like going to the movies or seeing any sort of entertainment at the time. You are excited, happy, and thoroughly pleased and when its all over you go back what you are doing before because it was just fluff to take away your problems and qualms about your daily life. The musical numbers in The Blues Brothers does the same thing but I guess its more discrete about it.

[–] cliffcarson-1 11 years ago

Consider Yourself was staged and filmed to be experienced in a theatre, in 6 track stereo and on a BIG screen. It truly is an overwhelming experience to see it in that way. The first time I saw it the Consider Yourself number it gave me goosebumps. Up until that moment in the film Oliver has been rejected, unwanted, abused and mistreated. To see not only a turn about of affection and welcome, but an overwhelming one on that scale is striking. The two big numbers, Consider Yourself and Who Will Buy are meant to show a contrast in classes, which is what Dickens book was all about. The class distinction.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sWLs1JxHAKo

[–] shandy8 11 years ago

I think the theme of class distinction speaks for itself in the story alone, but I do see your point. One big number (the drinking song that Nancy sings) really works because, although it doesn't really move the plot forward, it seems organic. The people involved in the song are part of the scene.

"Who Will Buy" starts off beautifully with Oliver Twist watching the various vendors appearing and singing about each of their wares until it becomes a charming chorus of mixed voices prompting Oliver to sing his solo. I think it should have ended there is all.

"What do you want me to do, draw a picture? Spell it out!"

[–] !!!deleted!!! (49761343) 9 years ago

I agree that Consider Yourself is overblown.

I think the reason why it was produced that way is that Oliver! was shot during that awkward period in the late 60s to early 70s when movie musicals were entering a transition from more old-fashioned style musicals (where showy numbers were more common) and modern musicals like Cabaret where numbers were more understated. The director could very well have left the showiness out of that number, but everyone might have been still operating according to the logic at the time that because Oliver! was a musical, it still had to have showstopping numbers like that. Cabaret was the first musical where filmmakers finally did away with the massive dance numbers and intricate choreography.

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Emojis=💩 Emoticons=

[–] shoolaroon-9-43507 9 years ago

I'm so glad you addressed this as I have the same opinion. "Consider Yourself" I'm willing to let ride as it's a introduction to London for a country lad. "It's a Fine Life" I'm also willing to let go as it does fit in with the tavern scene. But "Who Will Buy" is the topping - or the over-topping - on the cake. It starts out beautifully with the individual choruses gradually blending and leading up to Oliver's lovely solo. And it should have ended there. Too many big production numbers that just seem overblown and not in keeping with the topic or the era. I particularly hate what it does to "Who Will Buy" as it really has some lovely melodies that get lost in the big production.

[–] mross-wa 9 years ago

I've always considered most of the musical numbers to actually take place in Oliver's imagination. For example, in "Consider Yourself", The Dodger's politeness to Oliver prompts Oliver to imagine that all of London is greeting him. At the end of the number, everything winds down and back to reality as The Dodger pulls Oliver along toward Fagin's loft. Similarly, numbers without Oliver present, such as Fagin's "Reviewing the Situation" take place in the singer's imagination.

[–] zigfried-2 9 years ago

When I saw the WHO WILL BUY? number for the first time, I turned to the person next to me and asked, "Do they do this EVERY morning?"

[–] GoodSOVeryVeryGood 8 years ago

SMH

A musical is over the top productions and if not, then it's not a musical. Have you ever seen Oklahoma? South Pacific? Phantom of the Opera? West Side Story? They ALL have over the top musical numbers …. hence the designation MUSICAL.

SMH

[–] shandy8 8 years ago

None of the movies you mentioned has overblown musical numbers. In those shows, all of the numbers make perfect sense in the story. The characters involved in the numbers are logical parts of the scenes and the songs move the story along. If you had mentioned 'My Fair Lady', on the other hand, I would say that Doolittle's songs are overblown.

[–] moxey (141) 7 years ago

"In those shows, all the numbers make perfect sense in the story"

No they don't because no one - not cowboys, not gangs, or anyone bursts out into song in real life! It's a musical, you either go with it or you don't. You think New York 50's gangs went around clicking their fingers and dancing?!!

[–] StrongRex (1319) 2 years ago

“No they don’t”

Yes, they do. Musical is a genre, so saying “it duhsnt mak sents 4 da charactures 2 sing!@“ is a moot point.

The numbers in the musicals mentioned above move the story or develop the characters in some way, and kept the tone consistent and respectful to the story it was trying to tell.

This is NOT the case for Oliver.

Oliver is a grossly overrated musical that is nothing but 2 1/2 hours of corny, sugary, happy-go-lucky filler. With NO respect for Charles Dickens’ novel with the point it was trying to make.