I love this movie but I can't forgive the producers for cheaping out in the scene of Stachel's crash. We hear a plane coming down, we hear it for the longest time, but all of a sudden there's an explosion and smoke...but for the life of me I can't see a plane falling out of the sky! Musta been that secret German stealth technology. They couldn't use a model? Booooo!
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metawingo: I'm with you...I thought the scene is well done. You watch James Mason's face as you hear the airplane break up and then begin it's final plunge. The expression on Mason's face confirms that young Stahhel is "dead already" even if he doesn't know it.
By the way, has the Private Ryan board sunk into anarchy or what?
CmdrCody
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I never really thought of this before, I think it's because we don't need to see the plane actually falling out of the sky. Just hearing the sound of the aircraft as we wait for the final explosion is exciting enough. Quite clever really.
shareThe filming technique of Stachel's Last Flight is quite melodramatic and works quite well for this film; emphasis on the ground and the cast of characters that will survive Stachel, their facial expressions and their reaction to his fate are all good physical studies. We have seen many plane crashes throughout the film so there really isn't any point in showing this one. Of course plane crashes are expensive, whether real, staged, modelled, or even CGImaged so there is a practical point for seeking out other means of representing them in film.
shareThe plane was a monoplane (only one wing), and Otto Heidemann, who flew the plane before Stachel, said the plane was a death trap because the struts were too weak for the loading and the stress. (What he meant by this was, the wing was liable to break off.) So what happened to Stachel's plane was, the wing broke off and Stachel fell to his death in just the fuselage section, which likely would have been hard to film in 1966. Plus, I liked the way they filmed it. Just hearing the "Crack!" of the wing break off, then the General opening up Stachel's file and rubber stamping his death while you hear the plane fall, was better than actually showing it.
sharehi, i agree . that scene was one of the best movie moments ever.james mason was brilliant.did he stamp the file before or after plane crash. i think it was before???
shareI think he stamped the file before the explosion. Then after the crash, he slammed shut the cover of the file folder and handed the file to the adjutant, saying "Giving this to the Field Marshal. It is the personal file of a German officer . . . and a hero." :D
sharehi ,thank you , i remember now . a great scene.
shareThat was one of the Producers Bloopers !
sharei still reckon the rubber stamping of Stachel's file and NOT seeing the crash, was the best movie moments ever.
shareBack in those days, airplanes didn't have radios, so it would have been impossible to warn Stachel the plane was unsafe. Otto probably knew the moment he saw Stachel take off, that Stachel was a dead man. After the crash, when Otto came face-to-face with General Von Klugermann, for an instant, the viewer could see a look on Otto's face like he was about to say something, but then he gave a quick grim sort of smile as if he understood the General did what needed to be done, and then saluted the General.
shareWell, one problem with showing a crash concerns the monoplane that was being flown and supposedly came apart. Needless to say, the plane shown in the movie at that point could not actually be unsafe to fly; it was necessary to actually fly it for those "pre-crash" scenes- to show that Stachel was indeed putting a lot of stress on it. The audience "knows" that it is unsafe as the first pilot comes off the flight and mentions that the plane is a deathtrap due to the inadequate supports to the wings; yet it could not really be unsafe. Since it is a given that it is "unsafe" and that the wings will come apart upon severe loading we know that something is bound to happen. To keep the reputation of this real life plane from being tarnished after the movie; it is never actually shown as coming apart. It is implied that it did come apart from the terrible noise that we hear and the onlookers consernation. The sound of the crash and the smoke are all that we need to know that the plane did crash + the General stamping Stachel's papers as the plane goes into an uncontrolled descent.
Very similiar to the movie "The Andromeda Strain" where an alien organism is shown in a microscope. As one actor says, "It looks like green paint." But, from their actions the audience feels that this is a very dangerous organism. In reality, it actually was green paint!! The monoplane shown in that movie was, in actuality, very strongly built (it could do acrobatic manuvers so it had a higher safety factor than the average light plane) and would not come apart. You could do acrobatics in it all day (as undoubtably was done during the filming) and it would hold up. It is hard to imagine a plane that is so poorly built that it would come apart in such fashion on its first flights (before corrosion did its work). In fact, I doubt that a plane that was such a deathtrap as the movie implies would even get past preliminary drawings. Even in 1918.
Also, the actual crashsite of the plane is not shown as there is people and other objects between your vision and the crash. This means the plane could have came in low, trying to stay in the air, but then ran into the ground from a small height, but at greater speeds. This could also account for the long stretch of time between the growd gasping as there is a mechanical clunk sound, to when the plane explodes.
Carmine - King of the COGsshare
Well, perhaps. I think though that the audio track of those scenes was that of a plane diving. So, what they are trying to imply is that a wing ripped off the plane and it cratered in.
Incidentally, I have flown planes of about that size and configuration and when you do gain speed in a dive you can hear (within the cockpit) that distinctive sound. That is even before you reach V (NE); which I have never exceeded.
I just saw the post where you stated planes making that sound. I was looking for questions regarding that sound,& your stating it in responce to another discussion made it easy to overlook, the way I was predisposed. I can see how a plane of that configuration may create such harmonics. I can especially see how it could do so w/ a failed airframe, which can make for a lot of aerodynamic tone variables. Seems a fabric covered plane is more likely to "sing" to you than a metal. My 1st flight in a sail plane was in a Sweitzer 233, a fabric covered 2 place trainer. As we got airborne,I almost thought it sounded like an engine, but the pilot/instructor, Bob Cruise, said it was the fabric. This was in the early 70's. It stayed at a low moan. That could have been because we never accelerated in a dive, & that model can hardly afford too. It later got replaced by a 232.
If I'm wrong if I don't & wrong if I do, you're having your cake & eating it too.
I`ve often wondered if `that sound` is originally that of a Ju87 Stuka diving with the siren going.
"Any plan that involves loosing your hat is a BAD plan."
What made it easy to believe the plane to be a death trap was that in the period of the film, the engineering technology of bracing wings was more dependant on biplane design. The airplane cast in the role was certainly a contemporary design w/ tech that evolved since. I'm sure they could easily make a plane look like an early 20th century design on the surface, but a mid 20th century design internally(superstructurally).
If I'm wrong if I don't & wrong if I do, you're having your cake & eating it too.
That has got to be the most classic airplane in distress sound I've ever heard. It's been used countless times throughout movie history. One of the coolest sound effects I've ever heard. Anyone know how it was recorded? Was there a plane that made that sound when it went into a dive? Most planes just hiss louder as they accelerate. Or was there some kind of wind instrument that was recorded? The initial growl of the engine is definately an airplane sound, & if it was a recording of an airplane, the sound baggage was most likely on the ground & stationary, because there's a doppler shift at the end, that's not likely to sound like that if you're in the plane. It's the "ooowAAAaarr!" that sounds like the plane's passing a stationary listener. The nature of the recording in its entirety seems to suggest it was recorded once, & played back repeatedly as desired. It was even a sound effect for the falling car in Terminal Velocity! Strangely, it started the crescendo at the last part of the car's fall-making acceleration sounds after it was already established at terminal velocity!
If I'm wrong if I don't & wrong if I do, you're having your cake & eating it too.
Like I posted before; it is not an unusual sound. You can hear it in a light plane when you are accelerating downward (in a, hopefully, controlled, dive).
And, yest, it has been used countless times throughout movie history.
I have yet to hear it in the Cessnas, Pipers, & Beechcraft I've flown, & I was listing for it when I dived. The main sound I heard as I accelerated was the hissing of the wind. Seems the sound is most likely from an open wheel well, vibration-prone bracing wire, or something that disrupts the airflow enough to effect a tone, whose pitch is speed variable, & would have a tone range that went from the howl to the shreak
If I'm wrong if I don't & wrong if I do, you're having your cake & eating it too.
"In fact, I doubt that a plane that was such a deathtrap as the movie implies would even get past preliminary drawings. Even in 1918. "
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I think you've missed the point of this scene. It has almost nothing to do with Stachel as we already know he's finished. The directors wanted to show the ruthlessness and cold-bloodedness of the General. As we hear the plane screamming down the General opens Stachel's file, takes out an official stamp and loudly slams it down onto to the document effectively writing off Stachel as dead before he has actually died. Much more effective and horrific than if we had seen the actual crash.
This is similar to the scene in Lean's Doctor Zhivago where we see Omar Sharif's reaction to the protestors being cut down by the Czar's forces in a Moscow street without ever seeing any actual brutality. Today it would be all blood and guts and CGI violence but back then the directors often used understatement to make a point not just to save money but also because they understood psychology. What is implied is often worse than what is actually shown.
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not neccessarily it came straight down. He could've crashed at the crowd eye's point of view, because the crash happened in front of them, although the sound it made could've offered a straight downward plunge.
While the plane crash scene is a great piece of film drama, I have always wondered, from a cold, logical point of view, why a pilot with Stachel's experience and ability would not have been aware very quickly that the airplane is dangerous, just like Jeidemann did.
After all, wouldn't surviving so long at the front and shooting down 20 or so planes, show that Stachel was pretty well as good a technical pilot as Heidemann?
Lets use a classic movie like Goldfinger which was made 2 years prior to the Blue Max being made. In the ending where the Jetstar is making its dive you can clearly see the wires holding the model. That was "state of the art" in 1964. There was not too much jump in special effects until 1968 when 2001 came out. So to make a model go boom, when the way it was filmed was just as effective seems to make more sense to me. Would you rather hear the sound and James Mason holding the stamp, or see a crappy model slam into the ground?
I'll take it the way it was filmed.
To answer the question as to why he didn't notice it was a deathtrap, there's three possible explanations.
1) He was ordered to show some REAL flying. Stachel was all about flying. So he was a good soldier and took it too far.
2) He was arrogant as a pilot and figured he could recover from any problems.
3) Related to 2, but he saw the other pilot made it and figured it should be ok.
There's a possible 4th reason, that he knew he'd hate peacetime, and wouldn't fit in, and that through all of his struggles, he'd never be accepted in high society and figured if he's going out, why not go out with a bang.
Just my 2 cents.
Could the answer be that in truth, Stachel just did not have as much experience as Willi or Heideman? He racked up his 20 kills in a very short period of time. If he became a pilot in 1918, the war ended in November of 1918, so it was before November.
The other men had been flying for much longer and probably had experience in other planes. Stachel had only flown in the one plane. the outdated one that he trained in and had not yet been upgraded to a better plane. I think that is why he was so cocky and ready to prove himself in the monoplane.
To him, it was new. Much better than what he had been flying and he probably had not qualms about "strutting his stuff". Or showing off. His lack of experience could be why he did not recognize the design deficits of the monoplane.
Notice, however, the long camera shot on his face after he's strapped himself into the monoplane? He's frowning, fiddling with the controls and testing the rudder, and I'd venture to say that at that moment at least, he knew that something was wrong about all this? He seemed just a bit TOO contemplative at that point for it to simply show that he was checking the controls.
shareI think Stachel quickly realised the monoplane was a death trap. He was as good a pilot as Heidemann and so he should have come to that conclusion just as Heidemann did. What did Stachel "in" was his desperate need to prove that he was better than the aristocrats that surrounded him, including Heidemann. In his mind winning the Blue Max proved that he was their equal, but to out-fly Heidemann in the monoplane, in front of press and the public, would have proved to all that he was their better. With that and the General's prompting to "show some real flying", proved to be too great a temptation for him to fly the plane hard and thus caused his death.
shareI thought it was extremely poor judgement for the general to allow the deathtrap plane to fly directly over the crowd. He was lucky that dozens of people weren't killed.
Did you notice how Stachel had the biggest grin on his face as he was flying, he probably was oblivious to any structural problems.
I take it you're not a theater arts major.
RIP Heath Ledger 1979-2008