becket vs. lion in winter
Since we can't get the dvd happening, let's talk about something else. Which of these two movies do you think is superior, and why?
shareSince we can't get the dvd happening, let's talk about something else. Which of these two movies do you think is superior, and why?
shareI believe that Lion in Winter is one of the best films ever made. It's dialogue is trenchant, but it is also contains some excellent film performances, not just remarkable film performances from O'Toole and Hepburn, but all the supporting cast is excellent too (Anthony Hopkins, Timothy Dalton, etc.).
Beckett I think is a very good film, but not up to the level of Lion in Winter. O'Toole and Burton do a very nice job in the film, but I thought that O'Toole's performance in Lion in Winter was superior.
hmmmm....lion in winter is better :)
share"The Lion in Winter" for the cutting repartees, the relentless machinations, O'Toole's substantial Henry II and the first Hepburn performance that impressed me as genuinely brilliant.
share[deleted]
love them both.. Lion is more about the witty dialogue and Beckett is more about the relationships
also the playwrights were VERY different people.. Jean Anouigh (oops I think i misspelled his name!) took a modern look at classic stories (he re-did the Theban plays, his Antigone is the best known)
I think you just have to look at them differently -- on stage both lead to a lot of scenery chewing, but somehow that is part of the fun!
No question. Becket.
Lion in Winter is a droning snooze machine, IMO. It is a repetitive, one-note, symphony, without drama, deveoloment of characters, or even historical interest.
The script offers none of the beauty of Becket's.
It is, come to think of it, not in the least a good comparison, even.
[deleted]
"Lion in Winter is a droning snooze machine, IMO. It is a repetitive, one-note, symphony, without drama, deveoloment of characters, or even historical interest."
I suspect the same could be said of any movie one were to watch with eyes closed, perceptivity absent, and mind asleep, devoid of all knowledge of history.
However, when watched with eyes open, mind engaged and a modicum of historical knowledge and perspective, The Lion In Winter is interesting, entertaining and brilliant.
To Y'All:
I will take "Becket", over the "Lion in Winter", any time, for a dozen reasons.
Becket, hands down. The lion in winter, was emotionally and physiologically, exhausting.
shareAs a movie, I think 'Lion' is more entertaining.
But, if you judge the source material,'Becket' is a far better written play. Anouilh is most definitely an important author, while James Goldman, is, at the end of the day, a two bit writer.
I think that the secret of 'Lion's success are the performances: the actors deliver their lines in such a remarkable way that you don't pay attention to how awful the dialogue really is.
I can say that watching a performance of a recent stage production of "Lion" in London proved to me that I had a point. It was directed by Trevor Nunn, who doesn't appear to have done anything right in years, and starred Robert Lindsay and Joanna Lumley, who seemed to have just come out of a beauty salon instead of having spent several years in a prison. The actors delivered their lines with the kind of timing you'd expect in a sitcom: when Eleanor stated 'it's 1183 and we're barbarians, we have all knives!'; it just sounded like an annoying example of metareference (which it is btw), also considering that the actors then took a pause to allow the audience to laugh. Ditto for the 'What do you really want?' 'The Aquitaine' exchange. Lumley looked to be acting like in a Blackadder episode. Hepburn, on the other hand, gives you those lines so flashily and with so much dignity, that you're inclined to believe that the play is much more than it actually is.
'Becket' on the other hand has obviously much more depth, there's a better understanding of the ideology of the characters (despite Anouilh's historical errors) and their conflict.
I prefer the direction and atmosphere of 'Lion' though. Even the anachronistic Christmas tree that could have looked exteremely kitsch otherwise (it certainly did in the stage production I saw) had a more barbarian look and therefore you didn't mind it.
So, I think it's a tie if you compare them as movies, but "Becket" is easily the best play.
A "snooze machine"??
--
Non-sequiturs are delicious.
A lot of arm bands and team colors are in evidence in these responses to the thread.
For me, both films are stirring, sublime, incapable of being topped.
I've always appreciated the wit, self-conscious at times, of LION IN WINTER. And the scathing, ruthless flavor of the dialogue has caused some to dismiss it unfairly as dreck. Yes, O'Toole and Hepburn played it for all it was worth and more, but the secondary cast of LION was well-served by the script and vice versa.
That's not bad writing.
What's interesting is my delayed reaction to BECKET. My tastes and cinematic instincts have changed little since I was quite young, and my opinions don't tend to vary by terribly much over time...
But I have to make an exception with BECKET.
I'd always heard how brilliant the film was, and yet for many years, I admittedly didn't "get" it. I once found it drab and dry and snail-paced and terribly difficult to wade thru it until -- voila! -- a few short years ago I slipped in an old VHS of the film my parents owned (and with which I would abscond) and BECKET suddenly worked for me. Totally. Finally, I got it.
What changed?
But whatever it was, BECKET's alchemy of conjuring incantation and elegantly bleak ambience hit me, albeit belatedly, as I unexpectedly tapped into its Halloween frequency and now understood it... What a bewitching, pure film it is. Like a séance.
Strange.
BECKET is art. LION is artsy-fartsy fun (which isn't a bad thing) fabulously played on all levels.
And I just can't disparage either film.
--
Non-sequiturs are delicious.
Becket. The Lion in Winter is a pretty tedious watch, although well made. Becket is the latter but not the former.
shareLION is tedious?
--
LBJ's mistress on JFK:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WcXeutDmuRA