MovieChat Forums > The Dick Van Dyke Show (1961) Discussion > Buddy's wife "Pickles"

Buddy's wife "Pickles"

posted 2 years ago by CarolTheDabbler (570)
23 replies | jump to latest

Buddy's wife "Pickles" appears in only a handful of episodes, but is mentioned in a couple dozen others as well, making her a pretty well-established character.

In the first-season "Sally is a Girl," this conversation takes place:

Pickles Sorrell : ... my real name is Fiona, and at my neighborhood everyone named Fiona is called Pickles.

Ted Harris : Were there many Fionas in your neighborhood?

Pickles Sorrell : Just me.

This seems intended to demonstrate that Pickles is an airhead, but bear in mind that "Fiona" has never been a common name in the US, and up until very recently it was extremely rare -- so it's unlikely that there would be more than one Fiona in a neighborhood at one time. However anecdotes about someone's great-grandmother Fiona (who was called Pickles) might be sufficiently memorable to be considered a tradition.

[–] [email protected] (5854) 2 years ago

I wish Pickles had been in more episodes. I preferred the second actress who portrayed her. She had such a delightfully dippy quality about her.

According to Carl Reiner, they just didn't feel like they could do justice to another regular character since they already had a fairly large cast. Although I don't think it would've been too farfetched (or too much to write) if Pickles had been at some of Rob and Laura's parties. She needn't have had any lines.

Anyway, she fared better than Mrs. Cooley or Alan Brady's wife. We never even saw them!

[–] CarolTheDabbler (570) 2 years ago

The second actress to play Pickles was Joan Shawlee (who I recently discovered had also played a barmaid on Zorro), and she was my favorite Pickles too. The first was Barbara Perry, who played the role well, but was written as more ditzy.

I agree with you, Pickles should have at least come to parties with Buddy. But maybe the actress(es) wanted either a significant role or nothing.

Hmm, I think you're right -- we never saw Mrs. Cooley or Mrs. Brady. Also I don't think we ever saw Marge the receptionist (who was apparently named after Dick Van Dykes then-wife). But then a lot of shows, especially sitcoms, seem to have never-seen characters. When you've got to wrap up a plot in only half an hour, I suppose it helps to have a minimal number of people actually on camera.

[–] [email protected] (5854) 2 years ago

I also saw Joan Shawlee on an old movie that I finally decided to buy, Some Like it Hot. She's on the train that is taking the all girl band to their next engagement. She plays their manager. I remember saying to myself, "Hey that's Pickles!"

As for Marge, I like to think that we saw her once. Recently watched the episode where Millie sends out fan letters about a show Alan Brady did. It was a brainy PBS type show called "Project Greatest" that Rob insisted would be good for him.

Alan was doubtful, so Millie thought she'd do Rob a favor and write a bunch of fan letters praising it. Unfortunately she mailed them before the show aired and it was pre-empted.

Rob tries to retrieve the letters before Alan sees them and he's caught by Alan's secretary who walks in on Rob just as he is snooping through his boss's desk. He pretends that he's looking for a match.

In at least a few episodes Alan is on the phone yelling "Marge!!" when he needs her. Logically wouldn't she be right outside Alan's office? I like to think that this was Marge even though Rob doesn't say her name.

[–] CarolTheDabbler (570) 2 years ago

I remember that episode well, but had forgotten about the secretary walking in on Rob.

OK, I just watched it online. It's called "Three Letters From One Wife" (a take on the movie title "A Letter to Three Wives"). If the secretary had been credited as "secretary," I'd agree that she could have been Marge. But even though, as you say, she is not addressed by any name during the episode, she's credited as Miss Thomas. Even though Marge's last name could theoretically be Thomas, we know her only as Marge. So if the secretary was supposed to be Marge, surely they would have credited her as Marge.

I'm thinking that the situation could be like on Perry Mason, where he had a personal secretary, Della Street, and also a receptionist, Gertie. So Alan's equivalents could be Marge and Miss Thomas, either respectively or vice versa.

[–] [email protected] (5854) 2 years ago

It was Marge I tell you, MARGE! LOL

In the office, when Rob and the others are on the phone they always address her as 'Marge' and so does Alan. In "Coast to Coast Big Mouth", Alan yells for Marge on his phone several times. He never calls for any other secretary.

Don't ruin my fantasy! I have so few dreams.

[–] CarolTheDabbler (570) 2 years ago

OK, she could be Marge Thomas.

No matter how I look at this question, it doesn't make complete sense to me. Probably best that I don't try too hard!

[–] [email protected] (5854) 2 years ago

That's close to Marlo Thomas! I was thinking that her last name was a nod to one of the bosses, Danny Thomas.

It's one of my pet peeves when a character is mentioned a lot and never SEEN! Just bugs m for some reason. It's like Lars on MTM. When the Happy Homemaker had a fling with him, I was sure we'd see Lars. My mom and my sister kept laughing at me for being so disappointed.

And don't get me started on Maris from Frazier. LOL

[–] CarolTheDabbler (570) 2 years ago

It's generally even worse when the writers/producers decide to show the previously never-seen character. They tend to be much funnier in our minds than on the screen.

For example, there was a late-1950s sitcom called December Bride where the neighbor, Pete Porter (played by Harry Morgan) was very popular with the audience, and was forever telling funny stories about his wife Gladys. So they decided to do a spin-off called Pete and Gladys, but it was kind of a bust and didn't last long. Same thing twenty years later with M*A*S*H and the sequel AfterMASH, where we finally meet Colonel Potter's wife Mildred. (Oddly, the Colonel was also played by Harry Morgan.)

I think "they" finally learned that lesson, and started developing spin-offs as series in their own right, rather than as subsets of the original series. They actually killed off Lars rather than show him on Phyllis! For all I know, though, that lesson has been forgotten by now.

[–] [email protected] (5854) 2 years ago

Oh yes, I forgot about Phyllis. When I saw the preview of her spin-off, I was sure we'd see Lars. But the idea was that she was widowed and decided to make a fresh start.

I remember the writers of Frasier saying that they carried the "offscreen Maris" story for so long that they could never cast an actress in the part. I mean, they said they made her so ODD that no actress could live up to the weird descriptions of her.

I agree, but I still hate all the "near misses" we get as an audience. Maris was at the party but in the other room, she was upstairs, etc. It's just a personal pet peeve of mine.

On Cheers Norm always talked about his wife Vera. The audience was given the impression that she was overweight, unattractive, etc. Since the show was ending, I really wished they had done a last minute casting of Vera for the finale.

Norm could have mentioned in a few episodes that Vera was serious about dieting. She went to a Fat Farm (as they used to be called). While there she got into a huge fight with another resident over a pie and had to have major plastic surgery.
In the finale Norm is sitting at his usual place in the bar and says that Vera just got back and is going to meet him at Cheers. "And I hope they fixed her up!"

In walks Christie Brinkley as Vera and Norm promptly gives up beer and says, "So long fellas! I don't think I'll need to drink anymore."

[–] CarolTheDabbler (570) 2 years ago

Since the show was ending, I really wished they had done a last minute casting of Vera for the finale.

I think they did "show" her once, but she was wearing a gorilla costume.

[–] [email protected] (5854) 2 years ago

I don't remember that scene. But I recall a Thanksgiving episode when the whole Cheers gang gathered for dinner. Remember Diane's Pilgrim costume?

Anyway, the turkey took all day to cook because it was huge (I think they referred to it as Birdzilla). They got impatient, argued and ended up in a food fight. I recall that Vera walked in and she got a pie in the face, so we never saw what she looked like.

[–] CarolTheDabbler (570) 2 years ago

Hmm, maybe I dreamed the gorilla-suit scene?

Here's a write-up (from https://cheers.fandom.com/wiki/Vera_Peterson) that apparently covers all of Vera's near-appearances:

Even though Vera is never directly seen throughout the series, there have been a handful of times she's been heard: Thanksgiving Orphans, It's a Wonderful Wife, No Rest for the Woody, Look Before You Sleep and Love Thy Neighbor. In all instances, Bernadette Birkett provided the voice of Vera Peterson. She is briefly onscreen at the end of Thanksgiving Orphans, with her face obscured by a pie thrown by Diane.

[–] [email protected] (5854) 2 years ago

Thanks for that! At least now I know what she looks like. I've seen her before. She's the real Vera, aka, Mrs. George Wendt, Norm's real wife.

I think she was in a Cheers episode playing Cliff's date, a very shy woman.

I don't recall the other scenes you listed. But it's been a long time since I've seen Cheers. So, I probably saw them.

Maybe the "gorilla suit" scene is from another sitcom? Sometimes when an actress is expecting and her onscreen character is not, they will put the actress in a crazy costume to hide her condition.

They did that to Susan Saint James on Kate and Allie. In one episode she was dressed in a clown costume.

[–] CarolTheDabbler (570) 2 years ago

Maybe the "gorilla suit" scene is from another sitcom?

Yes, I suspect it was -- one of the many other shows with a never-seen character.

I must have read right over your "Mrs. George Wendt", so didn't realize what you meant by "the real Vera" till I found this on IMDb:

Bernadette Birkett ... has been married to George Wendt since 8 July 1978. They have three children.

So it was type-casting!

[–] [email protected] (5854) 2 years ago

Once again a comment on "never seen" characters...Last night I decided to watch "Baby Fat" again. I think it's a classic episode.

At the beginning of the episode Rob is seen entering Alan's office along with Buddy and Sally.

He says, "Thanks Marge, we'll just wait for Alan."

So, obviously the secretary just outside of Alan's office IS Marge! That supports my theory that it is Marge that we see in the episode I mentioned before. (Lordy! I gotta get a life!)

[–] CarolTheDabbler (570) 2 years ago

It does appear that Marge works just outside Alan's office, yes. So the woman who surprises Rob in Alan's office in "Three Letters From One Wife" clearly could be Marge.

But I'm undecided. There may be more than one woman who works in that area. Also, when Marge goes on vacation, someone else would cover for her. But mainly, if the woman we see is supposed to be Marge, it seems a bit odd to me that a) Rob does not address her by name, as he typically does when speaking to Marge, and b) she's credited as Miss Thomas rather than as Marge.

From a real-world perspective, I'm wondering why they didn't call her Marge! That would have been the obvious thing to do. Maybe they preferred to keep Marge mysterious? Or the actress they used didn't fit their mental image of Marge? She didn't fit mine, actually -- "my" Marge is a bit older, a bit stockier, maybe a bit shorter, and almost always has a smile on her face.

[–] [email protected] (5854) 2 years ago

I have a theory why Rob didn't call the secretary 'Marge' when she caught him snooping at Alan's desk. The producers like to drive the audience crazy by being vague! lol

Did you ever watch The Big Bang Theory? They never gave the neighbor Penny a last name. I was SURE we'd learn what it was when her father came to visit. Leonard addressed his friends' parents respectfully as Mrs. Cooper, Mrs. Wolowitz, etc. I figured he'd do the same for Penny's dad. But no! Right away he was on a first name basis with the guy!
I don't know why they have to be so sneaky and secretive.

Again about Marge, you wrote before that there could be a receptionist aside from Alan's personal secretary. That's true. Many offices have more than one person answering phones. And the boss has his own personal assistant (don't think they call them secretaries anymore).

But Alan Brady seems to be working with minimal staff. Carl Reiner said something about that. He said that shows have more than three writers and one producer. If you watch the TV credits, you'll see Executive Producer, Assistant Producer, etc. But the show would have too many characters to write for if they presented a realistic staff. So Alan got by with a staff of five ( plus all those unseen dancers and a choreographer).

Interesting how you picture Marge. We are given a bit of a description by the guest star Richard Dawson. Remember how he flirted with every woman he saw? At one point he asked them about "that cute little blonde receptionist" Marge. She was obviously young and attractive enough for him to hit on.
So if Marge was blonde, did she color her hair back to brunette in "Three Letters form One Wife"?

[–] CarolTheDabbler (570) 2 years ago

Thanks, I had forgotten that bit from "Racy Tracy Rattigan." OK, just found it on YouTube. Tracy (Dawson) says, "What's the name of that little blonde darling who works at reception?" And Mel replies, "Uhh, Marge." So yes, it has been firmly established that Marge is a blonde, and perhaps a bit short. As for her age and attractiveness, Tracy had just tried (unsuccessfully) to make a date with Sally, who's about ten years older than him and nice looking but no great beauty, so he seems to be somewhat flexible.

As for "Miss Thomas's" hair color in "Three Letters" -- even if they do want to be vague, you'd think they could at least be consistent! Or maybe Marge changes her hair color as the mood strikes her. (Or maybe she was on vacation, or had the flu that day?)

[–] [email protected] (5854) 2 years ago

I forgot his name! Racy Tracy. You'd think I'd remember since I have a sister named Tracey. (yes, with an 'e'. She gets mad when people omit it)

Racy Tracy did come on to almost every female he encountered. Even though he said "little blonde", Marge could have been forty. He seemed like a lonely sort of guy.

[–] CarolTheDabbler (570) 2 years ago

Yeah, kinda desperate while trying to maintain the facade of a sophisticated man about town. But even though I feel kinda sorry for him, I sure wouldn't care to date him!

[–] [email protected] (5854) 2 years ago

[deleted]

[–] strntz (12225) 2 years ago

Huh.. I thought her nickname referred to her propensity to tickle the gourds.

[–] OnanTheBarbarian (11961) 2 years ago

This seems intended to demonstrate that Pickles is an airhead

I'm not sure why that makes her an airhead. It sounds like sarcasm.

[–] CarolTheDabbler (570) 2 years ago

Now that you mention it, I agree that line could be used sarcastically. Her tone of voice seemed quite sincere, though, so I prefer to think she was telling the truth, and it just didn't occur to her that she should give a bit more of the background.

I didn't think she was an airhead, anyhow. I just thought that line (delivered in that tone) was intended to make her sound like one, and it seemed to me like Buddy thought it did. So I pointed out an alternative interpretation of her line.