[deleted] - Psycho (1960) Discussion

[–] swanstep (2715) 7 years ago

One person whom Hitchcock praised unstintingly at least early in his career was Billy Wilder. In particular, Hitch took out (implicitly anti-Selznick) ads in Variety praising Double Indemnity as the best film since Griffith's Broken Blossoms (1918?). And in many interviews, Hitch praises Murnau and acknowledged both Murnau's general influence on him as well as how much he learned in particular from assisting on Murnau's The Last Laugh (1924).

Hitch seemed to grow more competitive and wary of bestowing compliments as he got older. He mentions Carol Reed's great thrillers occasionally in the Hitchcock/Truffaut book but mainly just to make technical points. We know he felt challenged by Clouzot's '50s thrillers (which led Hitch to track down the authors of Les Diaboliques - resulting in Vertigo) but I'm not aware of hm making any detailed or comprehensive statements of admiration. Hitch saw Jaws and must have been impressed but he was as far as I am aware only ever flippant about it in public.

We *know* Hitch loved Robert Hamer's great black murder comedy Kind Hearts and Coronets (1949) because Hitch recreated himself in Alec Guiness's various roles from that film for an newspaper article/photo-spread: http://tinyurl.com/gqk2le8

The development work Hitch put in around 1967 to a script/film called Kaleidoscope a.k.a. Frenzy (now sometimes known as 'The First Frenzy') absolutely indicates that he was watching stuff like Blow-Up (1966) and early Chabrol's such as Les Bonnes Femmes (1960) and À Double Tour (1959), but, again, as far as I'm aware Hitch didn't discuss these influences in public. The impression given is that Hitch mainly liked to talk about himself (!) and that he was always very aware of the marketing and branding opportunities in any interview.

Finally, there are lots of stories from people like Jon Landis and Peter Bogdanovich of Hitch in his studio office at Universal in the '70s screening and enjoying comedies like Animal House and CannonBall Run, not vital homage-athons from the time like Carrie or Suspiria or Dressed To Kill.

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[–] movieghoul (213) 7 years ago

Another director Hitchcock had great admiration for was Luis Bunuel, who like Hitchcock worked from the 20s to the 70s. The iconic shot of the slicing of an eyeball in Un Chien Andalou was paid homage to in the dream scene from Spellbound, although in the latter, it's only pictures of eyes that are scissored.

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[–] ecarle (14979) 7 years ago

I think that swanstep and movieghoul have captured it pretty well.

Hitchcock was more warm towards other directors when he was a younger man...sometime around The Birds, I think, he knew that he was starting to lose his edge and he had no interest in supporting other directors. Plus: came the sixties, EVERYBODY was "making a Hitchcock": Homicidal, The Manchurian Candidate, Cape Fear(with a Herrmann score), Charade, The Prize, Strait-Jacket, Arabesque, Wait Until Dark... methinks that Hitchcock felt that at the same time he was "losing it"(Marnie, Torn Curtain, Topaz) others were catching up. He was in no mood to be generous.

So often, to Truffaut(with Night of the Hunter) and others, Hitch would feign that he simply had not SEEN these other movies. But we know he watched them religiously in his screening room, actually -- usually to copy somebody else(Clouzout, Castle) in his own way.)

On YouTube, you can see Hitchcock in 1972 get downright angry when this question is put to him about Frenzy:

Interviewer: Did Straw Dogs(1971, about six months before Frenzy) influence you in making Frenzy?
Hitchcock(angrily): But I've never seen Straw Dogs. And I never make a movie based on someone else's movie!

(He almost has a Norman Bates cadence: "But I'm not capable of being fooled, not even by a woman!")

And yet, for all of Hitchcock's antipathy towards his competitors, on his TV SERIES, he approved all sorts of young movie directors aborning: Robert Altman, Sydney Pollack(who married Hitchcock protégé Claire Griswold), James Bridges, William Friedkin.

As for Bunuel, I think praising him (and Truffaut) rather "let Hitchcock off the hook:" these men were not Hollywood competitors.

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[–] ecarle (14979) 7 years ago

I believe it was ecarle who mentioned on the old board that he'd had a private viewing of John Carpenter's "Halloween," though I don't recall how he felt about it.

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Actually, director John Landis told a hard-to-believe story that he showed Hitchcock the DePalma Psycho homage/ripoff "Dressed to Kill," and Hitchcock hated it. When Landis said "but its meant to be an homage," Hitchcock said "more like fromage(cheese.)"

The problem with this story is that Dressed to Kill came out in June 1980, about two months after Hitchcock's late April death. Could he have seen an advance print? I'm guessing that Landis misremembered. It was probably "Obsession"(1976) DePalma's Vertigo fromage/homage, I'm guessing.

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I haven't read every book on him, nor have I seen every interview he ever did, so there's plenty I could've missed.

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I've not read every book or interview, either, but I've read enough to know he was sparing in his praise. Try this:

Hitchcock: Michael Bates is in A Clockwork Orange and Frenzy. He plays totally different characters in each; loud and yelling in Clockwork, quiet and mousy in mine.
Interviewer: You mentioned A Clockwork Orange. What did you think of that?
Hitchcock: I thought it was a very interesting film.

Rather a non-answer, yes? But Hitchcock did NOT see Straw Dogs of the same 1971 December?

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[–] ecarle (14979) 7 years ago

Of Jaws, Hitchcock said: "Oh, yes, the big fish movie. Its quite good." And that's it. You can almost feel his teeth clenching. But Hitchcock, as a Universal stockholder, MADE MONEY off of Jaws.

Famous story: in the "Jaws" summer of 1975, Spielberg called ahead to say he was coming over to the soundstage set of Family Plot, to meet Hitchcock. Hitchcock reportedly and literally ran off the set and hid somewhere. He didn't want to actually MEET a possible successor. Family Plot star Bruce Dern said Hitchcock was humiliated because he was doing rather ratty TV ads for Universal Studios(for a fee of $1 million), which Spielberg said were an insult to Hitchcock's talent. I saw those ads; they WERE ratty(with Hitchcock "flying like Superman" in one , looking ridiculous with ridiculous process behind him.)

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[–] movieghoul (213) 7 years ago

Landis may have been referring to Obsession, or possibly to Sisters, DePalma's first Psycho homage, with a bit of Rear Window thrown in. I doubt that Hitchcock would have found much to like about either of them, or Dressed to Kill had he lived to see it.

I can also picture Hitchcock starting on Straw Dogs and walking out after 20 minutes.

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[–] ecarle (14979) 7 years ago

Did he like "Halloween"? What about "The Texas Chain Saw Massacre"? Both were clearly homages to "Psycho."

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I don't think Hitchcock was giving many interviews in the 70's if he wasn't promoting his own movies. He did acknowledge, while making Family Plot in 1975, that both The Exorcist and Jaws were huge acheivements and that his new movie was meant to be "personal" and could not compete. I don't recall him saying anything about The Texas Chainsaw Massacre or Halloween. He may have felt that they were beneath him -- non-studio product.

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I also find it odd that there's no trace (on the internet at least) of Hitchcock talking about Rod Serling and "The Twilight Zone," or vice versa.

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He talked a little bit to Truffaut in the book about it, saying he might do Mary Rose "because of all these Twilight Zone type things" -- i.e. fantasy.

And biographer Patrick McGilligan said that Rod Serling met with Hitchcock to discuss writing a script for Hitchcock (in the sixties) but nothing came of it. Recall that writers facing Marine, Torn Curtain and Topaz to write weren't too enthusiastic.

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[–] ecarle (14979) 7 years ago

And if Hitchcock crossed paths with William Castle on at least one occasion, I don't think the idea of him meeting Serling at some point is too far-fetched

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Serling, as noted(a meeting about writing a movie.)

As for Castle, two anecdotes:

ONE: To promote his 1961 "Homicidal" -- clearly a Psycho homage ripoff -- William Castle and his pretty female star posed for a photo cutting a huge cake with a butcher knife -- constructed of Hitchcock's head.

TWO: After meeting a few times with Robert Bloch(the novelist who wrote Psycho) to do a project, Hitchcock soured on the writer and wrote his assistant a note: "Has done too much work for William Castle." Only one film, I thought(Strait-Jacket.) Maybe more. The Night Walker? I Saw What You Did?

So Castle and Hitchcock knew of each other. I'm also pretty sure I've seen a photo of Hitchcock and Castle together, smiling, side by side, at a Hollywood event. I'll bet Hitchcock respected one thing about William Castle: his movies made money. Just like Psycho would -- big-time -- when Hitchcock used the Castle formula with a much better script and better actors.

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[–] jay440 (107) 7 years ago

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[–] jay440 (107) 7 years ago

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AZCGUs2CrKo

I can't believe this actually exists. Thanks!

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[–] ecarle (14979) 7 years ago

Just like Psycho would -- big-time -- when Hitchcock used the Castle formula with a much better script and better actors.

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I return to clarify: Castle worked with folks like Vincent Price (House on Haunted Hill) and Joan Crawford(Strait-Jacket) who WERE good actors, but more often than not Castle could only land B talent. But Price and Crawford struggled with those scripts.

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Oh yes, I've seen both the photo of Castle & Hitchcock and the promotional photo you mentioned.

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Somehow I figure someone named "Emergo" would have seen them! The photo of Castle and Hitch side by side had them looking very happy indeed. Castle had "stepped up" to Hitchcock fame(for awhile), Hitchcock got to be "youthful" being seen with Castle. Still Hitchcock in his Notorious or To Catch a Thief mode had nothing in common with Castle. Only with Psycho, really. Not even The Birds, which was "bigger" than a Castle film.

--- I'm assuming they'd met before "Homicidal." It makes it seem as though Castle felt a certain way about Hitchcock taking a page out of his book.

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Well, Castle wrote that he saw Psycho, realized Hitchcock was "doing a Castle"(complete with gimmick -- no one allowed in after the movie starts) and IMMEDIATELY had a "Psycho clone" whipped up: Homicidal. The speed of the new project coming together for shooting and release, reflects Castle's B-moviemaker opportunism. The script was almost an afterthought.

Despite its positive Time Magazine review(by a critic who wasn't allowed to sign their name), I think Homicidal is pretty poor in script. I DO like how it starts exactly like the Marion Crane story(complete with blonde on the lam in a car in California) and how, about 20 minutes in, Castle reveals that SHE's the psycho --- stabbing a Justice of the Peace in the stomach in a pretty bloody bit that begins with "cartoon blood" on his shirt. Nice twist on Psycho -- but not a very good movie.

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[–] ecarle (14979) 7 years ago

Interestingly, while Hitchcock and James Brown were being interviewed on the same panel by Mike Douglas, Brown asked Hitchcock how he'd done a scene in "Homicidal." Douglas tried to correct him by suggesting he meant "Psycho," but Hitchcock just went along with it

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and jay440 found the clip!

Its amazing, isn't it.

I only saw Hitchcock on TV in the 70's when he got "the show to himself" with Dick Cavett and was treated with a certain amount of auteuristic respect.

Yet, here he is, on the afternoon Mike Douglas show, "sandwiched" in with another icon(James Brown) and some garden variety celebrities as if he were "just another guest."

Its enough to knock Hitchcock off of Andrew Sarris's "Pantheon Director" perch. And yes, James Brown did get the title wrong(how happy William Castle would have been to see that, I think he was still alive) and Hitchcock did let Brown off the hook. Brown's question was good: who WAS that killer lady in the shower? WE know.

I think I've mentioned before that Mike Douglas got some surprising guests on his afternoon show:

John and Yoko..as CO-HOSTS for the week, interviewing celebs.

Marlon Brando, with some Native Americans along. Mike Douglas endlessly ribbed Brando for being overweight.

Robert DeNiro and the cast of The Deer Hunter.

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[–] ecarle (14979) 7 years ago

Hitch seemed to grow more competitive and wary of bestowing compliments as he got older.

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I can't say I blame him. I'm sure Orson Welles's unpleasant comments have been brought up before, so who knows what else was being said about Hitchcock behind closed doors, and how much of it may have gotten to him.

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There was a film composer named David Raskin ("Laura") who was great pals with Bernard Herrmann and believed that Hitch showed "the loyalty of an eel" when he fired the composer of Vertigo, NXNW, and Psycho off of Torn Curtain. Raskin told Turner Classic Movies, "Hitchcock was on his way down at the time, everybody in town knew it." So Hitchcock seems to have invited some of the bile -- and thus wasn't looking to be too supportive of anyone else. Raskin was right, but he was wrong -- Hitchcock got to MAKE movies almost to the end of his life -- and certain "films of decline"(The Birds, Marnie, especially Frenzy, even Family Plot) were well-regarded. But: Raskin was also right that what Hitchcock did to Herrmann was the height of disloyalty. I think Hitch was scared; he felt if he didn't get "hipper scores," he'd not get to work himself.

Quite frankly, even later "Hollywood pals" Coppola, Friedkin and Bogdanvich(who formed The Directors Company together) and Lucas/Spielberg/Scorsese/DePalma weren't THAT palsy-walsy, from what I've read. The Directors Company split up and those other guys were wary allies.

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[–] ecarle (14979) 7 years ago

I seem to recall a story about Hitchcock referring to himself as a "whore" for doing a voiceover for the Jaws ride at Universal Studios.

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You know, I'm familiar with the TV commercials(I lived in LA at the time, I think they were local only) but not with his voice on the Jaws ride.

Hitchcock was in a weird place in the 70's. He didn't really work much, and it seemed like Universal sort of kept him around as almost "a human prop" in those commercials and other usages(radio ads, print ads, magazine covers). As a Hitchcock fan, I recall feeling that Hitchcock seemed very "out of his time," being sold on the basis of past glory which was sadly not relevant anymore. And he didn't look very good anymore either -- age had tired out his his "character star" face and body.

Even Frenzy was a weird calling card -- Universal could trumpet it as a well-reviewed small hit, but it had a very "creepy" reputation. There was no "Frenzy" ride on the Universal lot. (However, Frenzy neckties and Frenzy margaritas were handed out to the press to promote the film -- remember how Mrs. Oxford made margaritas?)

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The LA Times also has Hitch quoted as saying that Spielberg "is the first one of us who doesn't see the proscenium arch."

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Interesting. I would say that somewhat about Hitchcock himself -- at least when his chopped up montages(shower scene) were filling the screen.

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[–] ecarle (14979) 7 years ago

And biographer Patrick McGilligan said that Rod Serling met with Hitchcock to discuss writing a script for Hitchcock (in the sixties) but nothing came of it. Recall that writers facing Marine, Torn Curtain and Topaz to write weren't too enthusiastic.

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Oh, to be a fly on that wall.

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Indeed. The two men probably praised each other warily for their work, which was so "twinned" from about 1959-1965.

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So this would have been after "Psycho" and "The Birds"?

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Yes, I believe so.

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I can't see Serling writing any of those later Hitchcock films. It's understandable that it didn't work out, but if only they'd have met a little sooner.

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I'm the one who brought up those post-Birds films, but its possible that they meet to discuss other properties. Hitchocck was pursuing a LOT of stories in the second half of the sixties, and met with a LOT of established writers, who, I expect, welcomed the chance to meet Hitch but were wary of signing on with him.

He wrote to Nabokov(Lolita) about writing Torn Curtain; Nabokov politely declined due to other writing chores.

I was always interested to learn that Hitchocck met with a screenwriter named Wendell Mayes, who did movies like Anatomy of a Murder and In Harms Way; maybe Hotel. Mayes was an old-fashioned "meaty" writer.

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I'll have to check some Serling books to see if I can find any more info

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That would be great if something turned up.

In the seventies, Michael Caine took lunch with Hitchcock to discuss the role of Rusk in Frenzy; Clint Eastwood met with Hitchcock to discuss the hero role in The Short Night(never made.) Its pretty clear both stars took the lunch to honor and meet Hitchcock, but neither star wanted to work in THOSE movies.

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[–] swanstep (2715) 7 years ago

And Herrmann was yet another link between Hitchcock & Rod Serling, having done the "Twilight Zone" theme song.

To be clear, the famous TZ theme from Season 2 onwards is a distinct improvement from Herrmann's original Season 1 theme, and much of that Season 2 TZ theme is a couple of stock cues written by Marius Constant for the sound libraries of CBS Radio and TV a few years before TZ's debut. This link has the story:
http://tinyurl.com/ybkb4ojm

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[–] dt123 (704) 7 years ago

I'd like what he would have thought of his masterpiece being reshot frame-for-frame. I mean, what's the point? I suspect we'd find him rolled over in his grave.

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[–] [email protected] (5854) 7 years ago

Yeah, that's like repainting The Mona Lisa or The Last Supper.

Of course imitation is the sincerest form of flattery and few directors were as imitated as Hitchcock.

I've watched a few of his interviews and Hitchcock does seem the most comfortable discussing his own work. After all, that's the point of interviewing him, right?

I recently found an interview done in 1964 for a Canadian TV series called Telescope. Near the end of the interview he was asked, "if you were not a film maker by trade, whose films would you be likely to enjoy and admire as a movie goer?"

Hitchcock deflected that question by saying, "Well I'm not a movie goer, so I wouldn't know."

Maybe it was technically honest because he didn't "go" to theaters to see films. But of course he screened plenty of them in private.
It was a tactful answer. Hitchcock was one of the top directors at that point. If he started naming names of his favorites, the directors he didn't mention would've felt slighted. It seemed to be the most prudent answer to give at the time. He was just being politic.

Some politicians know how to be tactful too. It's considered bad form for Presidents to criticize past Presidents (at least the ones who are still living!) or to criticize their successor. The wisest ones usually just say something about it being a "difficult job" and leave it at that!

When you are at the top of your profession especially one where you are in the public eye, you don't have the luxury of being a "normal" critic and holding opinions like a private citizen. Everything you say is scrutinized and magnified.

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