black man shining shoes


how did you feel about that?

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Fred MacMurray tossing a coin afterwards, and the shoe shine guy being happy about the whole thing made me wince. It definitely showed how different things were back then.

BTW, I'm white.

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At the end, when Jack Lemmon sticks his bowler hat on the black janitor's head, I winced. I felt it was a demeaning gesture.

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[deleted]

It was none of those things. Suicidal is all it was. I'd have to go full Francis on anybody doing that to me.

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After all, Baxter said that it was the hat of an up and coming executive. He gave it to the Black guy like passing the torch...
Rather than "passing the torch," I think it was supposed to indicate the hat's meaninglessness and thus dismantle its power, showing it as merely a status symbol and nothing more.

"We cure NOTHING! We heal NOTHING!"
-George C. Scott

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I think it was another way for the filmakers to insert a little more malice toward MacMurray's character. Not so much that audiences back then would wince. But that such a big shot would have the shoe shiner come up all the way to his office and then only pay $25c or less.

The movie is very calculated. Every scene has point.

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That's the way things were. How could you have done otherwise?

"Sometimes you have to take the bull by the tail, and face the truth" - G. Marx

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When this movie was filmed, it was very common to see Afro-Americans shining shoes. Even when I worked downtown in the 1970's and 1980's, I would often have to pass a shoe shine stand (with Afro American employees) and occassionaly used their services. At this stand, not only did Afro Americans shine shoes, but one of them was also the owner of the business.
I realize that in this movie, the shoe shine man performed his service inside a private office. So I don't know if he was on staff to service the executives or hired from a shoe shine stand in the lobby of the building. However, I see nothing wrong with this accurate portrayal in this film.

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it just seems weird when you watch these older classics and it strikes you how different the times were.like the other night i watched "kind hearts and coronets" and the N-word was thrown around several times.i mean, can a black man appreciate the film after that, even though it is too considered a classic of American cinema?

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Kind Hearts and Coronets is actually from Britain.

Anyhow, the N-word was used only for a children's rhyme, used back in the time. I don't know how intentional were they being.

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I can't speak for black people because I am white, but I can imagine that they are only too aware of how it was and still is in some places. I salute Mad Men who allow rampant racism to be shown, because that is how it was. And I bet if we had seen inside the Coaldrake's kitchen on Christmas morning, chances are that there would have been a black maid in there doing the dinner.

Classics of cinemas are usually because they are above the rest and that includes realism for their times.

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I'm not sure why the scene would strike anyone as particularly unusual. It's still quite common to see shoeshine stands, often with black employees in large corporate offices. I worked in one just a couple years ago in Washington DC that had several shoeshine stands in the lobby staffed with black employees.

That said, I definitely think Wilder was using the idea (MacMurray's character getting his shoes shined right inside the private office) as a way of establishing his own extravagance; that is, taking advantage of every possible service the company has to offer. (You never see Lemmon's character taking advantage of "perks" like that in his executive position). I used to see this all the time working in corporate environments, so it doesn't strike me as "odd" at all, and definitely rings true for that type of character.

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Good explanation

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"it was very common to see Afro-Americans shining shoes"

Y'know, it's funny how you see so few Afro-Americans nowadays. Especially since they all got their hair cut. Although I do see a lot of black people.




I want the doctor to take your picture so I can look at you from inside as well.

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It's still common to see blacks shining shoes. I can't remember that last time my shoes were shined by anybody else. Hey, that reminds me...did you hear the one about the priest, the rabbi, and the colored guy?

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THe shoe shine stand in Penn Station in New york today is manned by Hispanics.

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Black Hispanic or white Hispanic?

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I think that anybody who actually worked in NYC back in 1960 wouldn't think twice about the shoe shining scene. Shoe shine stands manned by black fellows were all over the place. Some were outside and some were in building lobbies. And there were black kids with shoeshine kits all over the sidewalks. It was all just part of the city scene. And there still were elevator operators in some of the buildings; all pretty young girls. My first summer job was as a messenger in 1969 so I was a witness to it all.

Was shoe shining demeaning? I dunno. My Italian grandfather repaired shoes in NYC back in the 1920-30's. When they were old enough, my uncles shined shoes. I'm sure the family was happy for the money that they made.

As far as that scene making Fred M look bad, I'll bet that he had his shoes shined everyday and that the shoe shine guy was happy to have him as a regular customer. Fred may have been a creep but not because he kept his shoes clean.

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I can think of worse jobs.

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I have absolutely no problem with it. Those were the days. The poster, classicmoviecomedy has a good point. Sheldrake is the type of character who would get his shoes shine on company time/expense and who would pay a tip that way - flipping a coin.

Let me share this bit from Cameron Crowe's book: "Conversations with Wilder" (1990) about that scene:

Wilder said:

I'll tell you a very funny story about him, the last story that I tell you with Mr. Fred MacMurray, who was a very stingy man. I loved it. I loved the man and I loved his stinginess too. It amused me. There was a scene in The Apartment before he comes into his office. He has his shoes shined by a black man. And then, from his suit, he gets out a quarter and he flips a tip to the shoeshine guy. And now, we're shooting it, and we're shooting it, and he cannot do it. And I say, "That's all right, it's too small, let's do it with a fifty-cent piece, it's bigger." And MacMurray says, "I would never give him fifty cents--I cannot play this scene."[Laughs].





Billy Wilder Page, Play the Movie Smiley Game
www.screenwritingdialogue.com

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I think what's being elided here is what the initial poster referenced as the shoe shiner's "happiness." In truth, it was his minstrelsy. Billy Wilder is not the referent for such an inclusion. Donald Bogle's "Toms,Coons, Mulattoes, Mammies, & Bucks" is.

BTW-- I'm Af/Am

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I think MacMurray would better be termed thrifty rather than stingy and that he was making a joke with Wilder based on that reputation. Back in the mid 1950s, I knew a guy who had worked for MacMurray on his ranch. He said MacMurray gave his ranch hands a very generous Christmas bonus.

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He always seemed like such an urbanite.



The sun shone, having no alternative, on the nothing new. Samuel Beckett

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Personally, I would say that Wilder's treatment of race is generally rather clever and subversive, and if you look you can see a difference between how things look superficially and what they represent.

Okay, so Black people in this movie... the insurance company, if you pay attention, is a multiethnic one. There are a great many black faces, male and female, amongst the employees shown, and just a few of these are menial (one of the janitors, the shoeshiner). The majority are clean-cut guys and girls in suits who clearly hold equal positions of prestige with their white colleagues. There are also many Black men enjoying the white female employee's tabletop dancing - it's very casually done, but remember any black gaze on a white woman was still largely taboo. What's more, there are several shots where these suited-and-booted white-collar African-Americans are in the foreground, which I do interpret a as deliberately positive portrayal, a pretty decent thing for Wilder to do given that this was made BEFORE Breakfast At Tiffany's and its excruciating caricature of Asians etc.

Okay, so in this context rewatch the shoe shining scene. Having already established this egalitarian, respectful environment, compare it with Sheldrake's disdainful attitude towards the shoeshiner - even the way the shot is composed, with Sheldrake posed so masterfully, basically announces that he is a complete tool. And top it off with the way he casually flips the coin. The message is clearly that he is an utter jerk, rather than being a slight against Black people.

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It was 1960, it was a different time, do remember. After all, how many companies hold wild Christmas parties (or ANY parties) these days?

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How do you feel about Baxter rifling through company records to get personal information on an employee? How do you feel about a doctor not telling the authorities about an attempted suicide (which not only breaks the law, but puts an unstable person's life at further risk)? How do you feel about the morality of what the apartment is being used for in the first place?

And all you want to know about is a black man shining shoes, which was commonplace at the time?

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Do you mean now? Are you saying that (attempted) suicide is still considered a crime where you live (the US?)?


--
Rome. By all means, Rome.

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The movie is from 1960. At the time, attempted suicide was still a punishable crime in some areas (including England). In some areas of the US (it was a state matter) it was a crime, but not really enforced.

However, what I was referring to regarding the doctor is that I believe it was a doctor's duty to notify the proper authorities regarding a suicide attempt (at least that's what I think, but can't find any facts online to support). The problem was, this not only breaks confidentiality, but back then there was a definite stigma attached to attempting suicide which would follow the person once it became known (since attempting suicide would likely land you in a psych ward for a while).

Now I believe it's doctor discretion. If the doctor feels that you are still a danger to yourself or others, only then would he break confidentiality and require you to be involuntarily confined.

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So what if the shoe shiner was black? Does it have to be a bad thing? All the shoe shiners near my office building are also black.

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