Why did they remake this as 'El Dorado' - Rio Bravo (1959) Discussion

[–] tyurbrner 18 years ago

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

That is why.

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[–] tomcat69w 18 years ago

Yup! Beat me to the $$$ punch line! "He had Spur's that Jingle-Jangle-Jingle
$$$$$$$Gold Coin$$$$$$$$ Shootin' Out Their Ass!

The Smoker You Drink, The Player You Get!

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[–] aleksi-78 18 years ago

Just being sarcastic about this...

Are there really some movies that aren't being made for money? Some charity movies, spending say a million to get a good movie done and paying the debts a few years not worrying about how it goes in the boxes?

On the whole I'd say there are many westerns that resemble each other.

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[–] c-huddleston 18 years ago

El Dorado was made by Howard Hawks and had many of the same themes as Rio Bravo - so many that it was virtually a remake - or a "reinterpretation." And then 4 years later Howard Hawks teamed up with John Wayne to make Rio Lobo. Which had so many similar themes it was virtually another - much poorer - remake.

Maybe that's why there are so many westerns that resemble each other.

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[–] aleksi-78 18 years ago

Movies don't even have to be by the same director or starring the same actors to resemble each other. Westerns of 40's, 50's and 60's are a perfect example of this.

The explanation reduces to the plot of the westerns. Mmmm, what is the word I'm looking for...mmm... simple? Predictable? Shallow?

Westerns offer great entertainment, but after you've seen a few of them you really can't say with a straight face that you wanna see more of them "in order to see something new." Story line repeats itself. I'm glad to say that there fortunately are some good exceptions to that rule.

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[–] c-huddleston 18 years ago

Agreed - but Westerns don't have to be shallow. Have you tried Unforgiven, or The Searchers?

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[–] aleksi-78 18 years ago

The Searchers. I believe that is one of the exceptions. And of course I didnt mean every western to be shallow. Just that the plot in general wasn't that difficult to figure out well before the ending.

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[–] c-huddleston 18 years ago

"the plot in general wasn't that difficult to figure out"

True. Many Westerns, like Rio Bravo, were based on short stories or were simply cranked out rehashes of what had gone before. Which tends to prompt a deja vu feeling about many of these movies.

But I would certainly recommend Unforgiven as another exception.

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[–] 18 years ago

[deleted]

[–] c-huddleston 18 years ago

True, cougar.

And of course John Wayne was fairly strapped for cash for a while after almost losing his shirt on The Alamo. Good scripts were harder to come by, so dusting off a proven seller might have been the way to go.

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[–] pawtrax67 13 years ago

Sorry but I think The Searchers is the most over-rated western ever. It wasn't even a good revenge yarn. Unforgiven or Once Upon A Time in the West however are beyond outstanding.

Each to his/her own.

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[–] 13 years ago

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[–] John_T_Chance 17 years ago

Both Rio Bravo and El Dorado outclass Unforgiven in every way possible.

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[–] SeanJoyce 17 years ago

Both Rio Bravo and El Dorado outclass Unforgiven in every way possible.

This statement alone should be probable cause for the administrators to ban your account.

"It's covered ya two-bit redneck peckerwood."~Strother Martin, The Wild Bunch

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[–] Taylorfirst1 12 years ago

Very true. IMO Unforgiven is extremely overrated.

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[–] Toshi51 8 years ago

It had its moments.

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[–] Taylorfirst1 8 years ago

I'm not saying it's bad, but, to me it does not rank among the best westerns ever made. I never understood the huge amount of praise it gets.

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[–] meLazlo1953 12 years ago

How is Rio Lobo similar to the other two? Granted, it's about saving a town from bad guys, but is missing the key elements of the drunken sheriff etc

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[–] ruggedrascal 18 years ago

The first draft of El Dorado was based on a rather dark novel called The Stars in Their Courses. Leigh Brackett, who had written Rio Bravo and several other films for Hawks, wrote a script that was apparently true to the darkness of the source material.

But by that point in his career, Hawks was reluctant to take chances and was not enthusiastic about doing stuff he hadn't done before. So he and Brackett rewrote the script to make the story lighter, and that, apparently, is where all the re-hashed Rio Bravo elements came in.

So basically El Dorado was not intended as a remake of Rio Bravo; it became that way because Hawks changed the story on short notice. Also, by the '60s Hawks was often borrowing from his older films. Even Rio Bravo borrows lines and bits of business from movies he'd made before.

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[–] ecarle 18 years ago

Funny thing:

When "El Dorado" came out, film critic Andrew Sarris noted that not one other review he read of the film even NOTICED the plot similarities to "Rio Bravo". Most critics simply didn't take Westerns that seriously.

Howard Hawks needed a hit, too. An attempt to do a contemporary screwball comedy called "Man's Favorite Sport" had tanked. The Duke was "surefire."

Hawks pointed out that "El Dorado" was different from "Rio Bravo" in a key way:

"In 'El Dorado,' its the SHERIFF who's a drunk."

Ha.

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[–] 18 years ago

[deleted]

[–] clore_2 13 years ago

When "El Dorado" came out, film critic Andrew Sarris noted that not one other review he read of the film even NOTICED the plot similarities to "Rio Bravo".

Wow, I guess that Sarris didn't read too many reviews.

The very first review that I read of the film was in "Parents Magazine" which my mother subscribed to for a few years. They had a decent movie section and they had a review of El Dorado that was printed at least six months before the film came out in the NYC area.

The critic was quick to point out the similarities to the earlier film and this only whetted my desire to see it all the more as Rio Bravo was a particular favorite of mine. It was the first movie that I ever saw in a theater on my own in summer of 1959, usually I went with a sibling and the choice wasn't always mine.

The review went as far as to note however the alterations to the characters, such as the youngest of the group being a poor shot as opposed to the sharpshooter of Rio Bravo. But it did mention that one scene was practically a verbatim redo from the earlier one but did not go on to elaborate.

When I saw it finally in July 1967, it struck me that it had to be the "muddy boots" saloon sequence, although there were changes in the presentation, the dialogue was much the same.

One thing that bugged me in 1967 and still does about El Dorado is the Nelson Riddle score that too often had me expecting Batman and Robin to show up.

It ain't easy being green, or anything else, other than to be me

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[–] bruce-129 13 years ago

I think you have to realize the world was totally different in the 1950's. There were few TVs, not a real TV or media culture, no VCR's, if you saw a movie you probably saw it once if at all, although total moviegoing percentage of the public was bigger then than it was now - you would forget. I saw these two movies over my life and thought they were the same movie somehow. I must have conflated them in my mind and eventually realized they were two different movies.

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[–] PillowRock 17 years ago

> Even Rio Bravo borrows lines and bits of business
> from movies he'd made before.

Yeah, there are one or two times when Angie Dickenson sounds like she's just paraphrasing Lauren Bacall's dialog from To Have and Have Not.

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[–] 17 years ago

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[–] Jack_LesCamela 13 years ago

They did it because Howard Hawks liked reusing material from his previous movies again. He figured "audiences liked it the first time, they'll like it again." For the most part he was right too.

Leigh Brackett, co-screenwriter on RIO BRAVO with Jules Furthman and the sole screenwriter on EL DORADO, called Hawks on this. She'd done what she considered the finest script she'd ever written for EL DORADO, and didn't want to turn it into a remake of their earlier movie.

Sadly, Hawks and Wayne won that particular argument. I'm hoping a copy of her original screenplay exists somewhere and eventually gets reprinted.

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[–] vestdennis 12 years ago

Rio Bravo was much better! El Dorado is a carbon copy in most ways but why watch it when you can watch Rio Bravo. Better cast & movie- period.

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[–] porfle 12 years ago

One of the funny things about the two movies is that in "El Dorado", James Caan's Mississippi takes the place not only of Ricky Nelson's Colorado from "Rio Bravo" but the Angie Dickinson character as well, since Wayne has a less contentious relationship with his leading lady in the latter film and needs someone to verbally spar with. Caan and Dickinson even share a line: "I always make you mad, don't I?"

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[–] 12 years ago

[deleted]

[–] Prismark10 11 years ago

I always found a lot of westerns rehashed plots from previous films, yet there were always a few that stood out from the pack.

Its that man again!!

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[–] homercles11 9 years ago

That's what happens when you leave creativity up to a conservative?

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[–] liscarkat (18388) 7 years ago

homercles11 is a moron.

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[–] Skye_Reynolds 9 years ago

I know I'm in the minority here, but I enjoyed El Dorado better. This film lacked the presence of a good villain.

Joe is a near-comical representation of a ne'er-do-well. He has no friends. He can't fight when it's one on one. He's no good. Work hard. Stay in school. Wake up bright and early and you'll be on the path to success! This character belongs in an episode of a moralistic kid's show like The Lone Ranger, not a John Wayne movie. Definitely not one of Claude Atkins' better roles.

Nathan Burdette, played by Lawman's John Russel, has some charisma to him and snags a good line with his quote about how everyone should get a taste of power. But he basically has one scene before he disappears from the film.

El Dorado had the charismatic McCleod and the slimy Bart Jason. That was way more satisfying than dealing with a caricature or nameless gunmen shooting from behind windows and balconies.

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[–] ecarle (14979) 4 years ago

When "El Dorado" came out, film critic Andrew Sarris noted that not one other review he read of the film even NOTICED the plot similarities to "Rio Bravo".

Wow, I guess that Sarris didn't read too many reviews.

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Hmm...well, no, film critics don't always do their homework.

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The very first review that I read of the film was in "Parents Magazine" which my mother subscribed to for a few years. They had a decent movie section and they had a review of El Dorado that was printed at least six months before the film came out in the NYC area.

The critic was quick to point out the similarities to the earlier film and this only whetted my desire to see it all the more as Rio Bravo was a particular favorite of mine. It was the first movie that I ever saw in a theater on my own in summer of 1959, usually I went with a sibling and the choice wasn't always mine.

The review went as far as to note however the alterations to the characters, such as the youngest of the group being a poor shot as opposed to the sharpshooter of Rio Bravo. But it did mention that one scene was practically a verbatim redo from the earlier one but did not go on to elaborate.

When I saw it finally in July 1967, it struck me that it had to be the "muddy boots" saloon sequence, although there were changes in the presentation, the dialogue was much the same.

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CONT

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[–] ecarle (14979) 4 years ago

Though it is clear that Howard Hawks eventually decided to remake Rio Bravo here (with "matches" for the charcters played by Wayne, Martin, Brennan, Nelson and Dickensen in Rio Bravo)...the movies have a different tone and "feel." Hawks was 8 years older and I don't think El Dorado quite has either the energy or the craft of Rio Bravo. El Dorado also feels a bit more "sound stage" than Rio Bravo. The climactic gunfight in Rio Bravo is outdoors and involves some dynamite explosions. The climactic gunfight in El Dorado is...on a sound stage. No dynamite. Little sweeping action.

That said, El Dorado is more than worthy as a successor to Rio Bravo because of...the sense of character, the humor, the banter and the overall respect of the characters for each other(Wayne and McLeod, sworn enemies for pay, could have been friends in some other place; Wayne again rehabilitates a good man turned drunk, Mitchum this time -- the SHERIFF this time.)

It was "the same but different" and just as comforting to watch.

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