Every time I turn on the TV, I can't help but notice the theme is always crime or murder or some kind of drama. It's grim, I've got to the point where I probably only turn the tv on 2 or 3 times in a year. It wouldn't be that way if they still made shows as good as this.
Why have things gone downhill so much? How did it get this bad?
This is no way to live.
Well, I know what you mean I think. It almost seems as if everything on television these days is required to have a blatant, “in your face” element to it. I’m not sure whether or not it’s genre specific, though. The crime dramas I grew up with, for example (like Perry Mason reruns) were pretty well plot-rich and might inspire the viewer to think at least a little.
By modern standards, however, such programming would be considered far too tame owing to a relative absence of blood, guts, or associated gore. There’s just not much anymore that’s really, truly fun to watch it seems.
There are exceptions, of course, but they’re all-too-rare. When things really get bad, I’ll pull out dvds and spend a few hours watching Dangermouse, The Adventures Of Rocky & Bullwinkle or some other refreshingly silly thing.
It almost seems as if everything on television these days is required to have a blatant, “in your face” element to it. I’m not sure whether or not it’s genre specific, though.
As Silent Night, Deadly Night is a notorious slasher film, I find your remarks hypocritical.
Ever watched Gunsmoke? It's one of the most-brutal TV series of all time, easily matching (or exceeding) current programming (but with little or no visible gore).
The Twilight Zone is poor, highly unimaginative programming that too-often depends on cheap plot twists. It rarely tells stories of any real dramatic or intellectual substance.
The only good thing about it is the title music by Bernard Herrmann, the best title music ever written for a TV series. It was, of course, replaced after the first season, probably because it was assumed to be too subtle for the average viewer.
[deleted]
The Twilight Zone is poor, highly unimaginative programming that too-often depends on cheap plot twists. It rarely tells stories of any real dramatic or intellectual substance.
Would you care to put up one of your screenplays against mine? Oh, you're not a writer. You've had no experience trying to tell good stories.
shareGrizz, have any of your screenplays ever been produced, or published, or considered for either by any production company? You know I'm an admirer of yours, so I ask this with sincerity - I'd love to watch, or read some of your works.
Better to keep your mouth shut and be thought an idiot - than to open it and remove all doubt!
It is telling that he never cam back to respond to your question. The silence speaks volumes.
shareThe Twilight Zone is poor, highly unimaginative programming that too-often depends on cheap plot twists. It rarely tells stories of any real dramatic or intellectual substance.
You sound like the guy who likes to hate stuff that people generally like.
"Batter up, bitch boy." -Steve Klaszkyshare
Considering you rated Brazil a perfect 10, I find your remarks hypocritical.
They call me the Mayor, 'Cause I spend all my days here
There was crime and drama back then so shut up.
And I don't wanna hear "It was not as bad back then" either.
Yes, but not nearly as serious and heavy.
shareYes, but not nearly as serious and heavy.For its time, The Defenders (1961) could qualify as "serious" and thought-provoking ("tackling issues headfirst that other shows wouldn't even mention," as one review said). -/title/tt0054531/reviews share
Funny you should mention The Defenders. I actually bought the first season dvds a few weeks back from Amazon and am about to settle in for a first look at "The Quality Of Mercy," which incidentally was directed by Twilight Zone alum Buzz Kulik. (I'm also fully expecting a figurative kick in the teeth owing to the subject matter.)
shareI guess I'll have to repeat myself -- you haven't seen Gunsmoke.
The only difference between Gunsmoke and Breaking Bad is that the latter is more graphic. Except for the scene in which Walter White murders a room full of people with a machine gun, there's nothing in Breaking Bad to top Gunsmoke.
You can easily find episodes in which three or four people are shot down on-camera. Psychopathic cowboys drag Chester behind a horse. The leader of a group of hunters kills one of his men (so he won't have to pay him) by shoving his face in a bowl of molten lead. Two elderly brothers decide to rid the West of evil by killing as many Indians as they can. (This is a comic episode.)
Both Marshall Dillon and Festus Haggen commit murder. Rape is not unheard-of (though the word is never used, and the "event" is often described euphemistically). In "Hostage!", Miss Kitty is kidnapped, raped, and then shot twice in front of the town. Ken Curtis (Festus) considered this acceptable family viewing.
I HAVE seen Gunsmoke, what makes you think I haven't? What I mean is, tv now has a much gloomier atmosphere to it. I can't explain what it is, but I find them utterly un-enjoyable. Is that such a crime?
shareI sometimes call Gunsmoke "Glumsmoke".
Modern programing often seems more realistic. Are "gloomy" and "realistic" the same thing?
Most modern programs are fanciful garbage, far from realistic. Another thing that bothers me about films and tv now is how quick they flash from one camera angle to the next, you can hardly tell what's going on.
shareAnd Donna Reed is realistic?
I agree that cutting has become very quick, to the point where it's annoying. Sometimes it's so fast that you don't have a chance to properly take in what whipped by too quickly.
I've never liked Gunsmoke. It's odd how it really didn't make the effort to develop the main characters at all. The show was exclusively plot-driven and, in a single hour, the "guest stars" had more character development than the main characters.
shareI've never liked Gunsmoke. It's odd how it really didn't make the effort to develop the main characters at all. The show was exclusively plot-driven and, in a single hour, the "guest stars" had more character development than the main characters.
You're right that Gunsmoke lost a lot of its focus on the "family" at the center of the stories. (Gene Roddenberry said this "familial" organization was an influence on Star Trek.)
But I don't see "character development" as being part of Gunsmoke's story telling. At the end of the series, Matt, Doc, and Kitty aren't much different than they were two decades earlier. Only Festus shows any change, and it's not huge.
But I don't see "character development" as being part of Gunsmoke's story telling. At the end of the series, Matt, Doc, and Kitty aren't much different than they were two decades earlier.
I think a certain amount of character development is important for people to stick with a series. Consider Law & Order, which is almost entirely plot driven. And yet, we do feel a sense of connection with the characters. We get snippets of their back stories with most episodes. The show is not about the characters, and yet our feelings about them make us more interested in returning to the show.
PrometheusTree64 - thanks for the comment about Gunsmoke's change of orientation. I have never seen the 1/2 hour episodes. I only started to watch the show in 1970. I was kind of indifferent about it for the reasons cited above.
Interestingly, GUNSMOKE and LAW & ORDER are tied for longest-running, live action, Americian, primetime, scripted TV series at 20 seasons. (You have to say "live action" now that THE SIMPSONS has been on for 27 years).
--
LBJ's mistress on JFK:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WcXeutDmuRA
Hey, Jennie - just came across this thread tonight.... regarding your Law & Order comment......I've watched that show since it's premiere air date in Sept 1990 and I've seen every episode of the original show, and L&O/SVU (I saw 1 ep of "Criminal Intent" and hated Vincent D'Onofrio's guts within the first 10 minutes!!).......I watch SVU these days out of my fondness for Mariska Hargitay, but I don't think I'll ever forgive Dick Wolf (like he cares...HA HA!HA!!) for the hateful storyline that led to the exit/death of ADA Claire Kincaid - while truly one of the best "shocking season ending moment" of any show I've ever seen, all the other "cliffhangers" had the gd common courtesy in the following season premiere to EXPLAIN/JUSTIFY/AT LEAST FREAKIN' COMMENT on such a huge moment from 6 months before........but NOT. ONE. WORD. WAS. EVER. SAID. ABOUT. CLAIRE - EVER.
(what's that? hold a grudge? MOI? nah.....just a long memory, and Jill Hennessy's a compatriot, lol!)
Better to keep your mouth shut and be thought an idiot - than to open it and remove all doubt!
It's funny, when the L&O series began in the early 1990's, it wasn't getting very high ratings, but it was a really good show and the network wanted to keep it. So they started to add some recurring female characters-- leading to the decision that all female ADA's must be ravishingly beautiful women.
I find that the L&O series is totally addictive and I have watched it since it started. Whenever a marathon is on-- like on some channel any day, I just sit and watch it. The stories are so well told. And I agree that Criminal Intent is not as watchable, but I still watch it.
___________________________________
Never say never...
The only Law & Order series I cannot stomach is SVU. The actors are fine and whatnot, but the steady diet of sexually-based offenses in terms of plots is where I have to draw the line.
shareI agree that SVU is very disturbing. I think that is one of the reasons there is much more character development of the leads. It connects you more to the show.
I heard a really interesting factoid once: that the average amount of time a real life detective will spend in the SVU is about 2 years. It is just so depressing, they don't want to stay.
___________________________________
Never say never...
I think you’re right. The extended character development provides at least some relief from the horrendous storylines. (Pick any random episode of SVU and it just might make the Twilight Zone episode “Young Man’s Fancy” look like a cakewalk.)
Have you ever noticed that the older she gets, the more Mariska Hargitay looks like her mother?
I wouldn't be at all surprised to know that the "lifespan" of an SVU investigator is very short as compared to other units. It would only make sense in a way.
Yes, SVU is brutal. Also, you can see that the writers frequently use a sexual attack to segue in to a different topic entirely.
On the topic of Mariska Hargitay, I agree that she is getting to loook more like her mother. this is a video of Jayne Mansfield on a talk show with 4 of her 5 children: https://youtu.be/RbTfwIhkXIo
___________________________________
Never say never...
[deleted]
I agree with your points. TV today is joyless and overly brutal.
shareWhy have things gone downhill so much? How did it get this bad?
As for non-TV ... we have ... phones, Internet, etc.We had phones! But not mobile ones.
We didn't have these options in the '60s.
We had phones! But not mobile ones.
We had movie theaters. Live theater also.
Oh, and books, lots of books, libraries full of 'em.
And radio too, and radio dramas. (Serling wrote for radio before TZ)
I'm 68, an ex-engineer/technical writer. I've also taken formal training in screenwriting. The latter obliges one to think about how stories are told. (Note that Robert McKee's standard work on screenwriting is titled Story.) Stories I might have found acceptable a half-century ago now seem shallow, unimaginative, filled with logical and dramatic errors, etc. (I actually had the chutzpah to rewrite The City on the Edge of Forever to correct its many problems. If you're interested, contact me.)
Last night I watched "The Trade-Ins". This is exactly the kind of story TZ should have been telling, but rarely did. A somewhat fantastic premise is treated as legitimate drama, with an ending not dependent on surprise, twists, or irony.
Which brings me to "Eye of the Beholder". One of the IMDb reviewers dismisses it, remarking that it's a little too obvious. Though I consider it one of the very best episodes, he has a point. For example... Why not have one of the nurses say "I'm glad they keep this part of the hospital so dark. I can't stand looking at such horribly deformed people."
There are plenty of amazing TV shows out there. You must not be researching hard enough because there is so much more out there besides just drama shows. They do make TV shows that are great just like Twilight Zone was. It's a masterpiece and is a groundwork of how a TV show should be, but it's not the end all-be all.
shareI've seen them, and I hate them all, especially The Big Bang Theory, that program makes me sick.
shareIt's hard to figure out how to get the Kardasians to read for a Twilight Zone type script without sounding slutty. 😲
Nobody goes there anymore. It's too crowded. Yogi Berra
None of them would even get a call-back anyway. (The raccoon in "The Hunt" had more talent.)
shareIt's hard to figure out how to get the Kardasians to read for a Twilight Zone type script without sounding slutty
Mentioning The Big Bang Theory on a Twilight Zone thread is nothing short of pure blasphemy! I can't think of two shows with LESS in common - am I missing your point.........or (w.a.d.r.) did you not make one?
Better to keep your mouth shut and be thought an idiot - than to open it and remove all doubt!
The problem with stories that lean heavily on fantasy, irony, coincidence, etc is that they usually offer little of substance.
If you've been watching TV over the past 25 years or so, you might have noticed that programs which were traditionally simply actioners (such as Xena, Worrier Pancreas), moved strongly in the direction of real drama. The characters have plausible motivations and interactions, and conflicts are often resolved without violence.
Sorry, but by the standards of good storytelling, The Twilight Zone leaves a lot to be desired. It is too-often obvious and lame.
Well, everything back then can't be as good as Kendra On Top.
Nobody goes there anymore. It's too crowded. Yogi Berra
I couldn't disagree more, grizzledgeezer. TZ offered more substance than most TV shows, then & now. Its true stage was the human psyche -- or, if you prefer, the human heart. And on that stage the fears, hopes, dreams, terrors, sorrows, wonders of being human in a troubled, uncertain age were played out brilliantly. Which is why the stories still resonate so powerfully with viewers today.
share[deleted]
The problem with stories that lean heavily on fantasy, irony, coincidence, etc is that they usually offer little of substance.
Sorry, but by the standards of good storytelling, The Twilight Zone leaves a lot to be desired. It is too-often obvious and lame.
Why can't TV be like this anymore?
Why can't life be like this any more?
Not sour grapes, but for me the golden years closely approximated TZ's original run. The late 50s to the mid-60s. Before the revolution (which of course produced its own classic TV, politics and music) things were more black and white - like most of our TVs.
We played outside, maybe not kick the can, but cowboys and Indians, we wrestled in the back yard, played Hide'n'Seek, ran in the sprinkler, Mom would make a tent with sheets hung on the clothesline, Kool-Aid, Pez, Bosco, home-delivered milk in bottles whose cream would freeze at the top in winter, those ads on the back of comic books for kid-sized rocket ships that you could crawl inside and pretend to space travel, revolving paperback racks full of Ray Bradbury, Poul Anderson, John Wyndham, Isaac Asimov, etc., with their garish, beckoning covers, Galaxy Magazine, Famous Monsters of Filmland, FATE Magazine, Saturday afternoon showings of old movies, especially sci-fi movies, and comic books, movie-tie-in comic books, the Classic Comics series, Hula Hoops, Frisbees, the Twist, Sky King, Jet Jackson, The Flintstones, Supercar, Warner Brothers cartoons early Saturday mornings, Kellogs and Post Cereal boxes with little plastic molded dinosaurs inside, or baking soda-powered navy frogmen, going to school Monday talking about last Friday's Twilight Zone, and anticipating the upcoming Friday's episode...
Days lost in history but living still in memory, as long as memory lasts.
Very nice, bastasch! And......
going to school Monday talking about last Friday's Twilight Zone, and anticipating the upcoming Friday's episode...I remember that well....
To the OP: when "The Twilight Zone" was made, Hollywood still had talent, glamour and good taste. These are rare, almost introuvable, qualities found in today's Hollywood. Shame!
shareThanks, Miss Margo, for the kind words...those were the days for sure.
shareBecause things change and because they are running out of ideas which is why we have all this "reality" show crap.
Fortunately we do have these retro TV stations that re-run classic shows such as TZ from the recent golden age of TV.
Damn I'm good.