Wow 2 minutes on the planet and so sexists talk
How dated this movie is.
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MovieChat Forums > Forbidden Planet (1958) Discussion > Wow 2 minutes on the planet and so sexis...
It is a film from the 1950's the sexism is a product of its time.
shareThe film's prologue also says that men first landed on the moon in the final decade of the 21st century. That and its sexism are among the items that haven't stood the test of time too well.
What I never got is why Morbius didn't seem to take any offense at the men's wolf whistles, staring, smarmy remarks, and the over-weening attention they paid Altaira, or worried about sending her alone (with Robby) to see the ship...all while clad only in those very short skirts. Even when he learned of Lt. Farman's kissing game he didn't become very exercised and let it drop (though the id monster wasn't so forbearing). It almost seemed as though he didn't care about the effect his sexy young daughter had on the crew, how she dressed or acted around them, or their leering attitudes and expressions. Would you blithely subject your daughter to this kind of thing -- even in the 1950s? (Or 2200 by way of 1956?)
The film's prologue also says that men first landed on the moon in the final decade of the 21st century. That and its sexism are among the items that haven't stood the test of time too well.
All though the overall point about the dated sexism and sexual politics are correct, I have a minor correction. The opening narration states
"In the final decade of the 21st century men and women in rocket ships landed on the moon." [emphasis added]
I would also point that the objectionable viewpoints run both ways. I find it a little annoying that the ship's commander blithely suggests that cream-of-the-crop perfect male specimens who are his crew get a little rapey after a year in space.
"Morbius, something is approaching from the southwest. It is now quite close." share
Absolutely correct, the narrator (Les Tremayne -- yay!) does say "men and women". Was this a stray, or perhaps aborted, attempt by the filmmakers at disclaiming any sexist intentions? (Although, of course, the word "sexist" hadn't been coined in 1956.) Was it a nod toward the emancipation of women in the coming centuries? Was it subtly relating that women were not objects, but equals, and that together, men and women from the planet Earth would sweep out into space for the betterment of all person-kind?
Nah.
On the other hand, if men and women in rocketships had landed on the moon in the 2090s, why, just 110 or so years later, was the crew of the C-57D all-male? Had we regressed as a society? And consider the implications. A trip to the moon takes only two days. The C-57D was in space for 378 days with an all-male crew, who apparently do not have individual sleeping quarters (as we see when the id monster opens the hatch in his first attack). A bunch of 24.6-year-old men with no privacy, locked together for over a year, with no women around? The Commander may have been a bit blasé in his observations about the mental states of his crewmen, but he was certainly being both frank and accurate. All the more reason for the flying saucer brigade to have half-female crews, and individual compartments.
I mean, the Belaraphon had a mixed-sex crew. Morbius met and married his wife, Julia Morrison, en route. Didn't they get a private compartment after that? Or did they go on bunking with the hoi polloi in the main hall, like the boys aboard the C-57D? Granted, the soon-to-be-vaporized Big B was not a military ship, but the societal/sexual problems would be very similar.
Unless, of course, the crew was all gay. But if a mixed-gender crew was unacceptable in 2200, would an all-gay one be any better? And poor Altaira!
Ah, space...the final frontier. Not like the old days of sailing across the bounding main. Skippers had some control then. If the crews began to get aroused and agitated and started to rise up, the captains were then free to shoot their seamen.
The Belaraphon was a colonizing ship. The C-57D was a military ship sent to investigate the colony.
In the 1950s the military members aboard ships were all male. Men manned naval ships for long periods of time at sea and were known for drinking and sexual carousing on shore leave.
The mixed crews of today, with occasional cases of pregnant female crew members, would be more foreign to that era's viewers than the movie is to the present day movie viewer.
All true.
Still, as Harold_of_Whoa pointed out, in the opening segment the narrator does say "In the final decade of the 21st century, men and women in rocketships landed on the moon." [Emphasis added.] That indicates that space crews were at some point mixed-sex in make-up, as the notion of a crew consisting of both sexes was stated as having been fact.
Obviously for plot purposes it's better to have an all-male crew on the C-57D, and as you say, this would have been in keeping with societal norms of the era in which the movie was filmed...as would the crew being all-white.
Yeah it was sexist, but no more than most other sci fi (and other films) of the time. It's one of the things I can live with and cringe and still enjoy the rest of the film... kind of like the chips, wear, and other flaws in old wood I guess...
share"Old wood"???
But yeah, people should just relax and see these things in context. I'm sure 60 years from now people will be picking apart many of today's movies for their cringe-worthy flaws, as judged by 2075 standards.
Why cringe ?
it's the correct social order
The Belaraphon was a colonizing ship. The C-57D was a military ship sent to investigate the colony.
In the 1950s the military members aboard ships were all male. Men manned naval ships for long periods of time at sea and were known for drinking and sexual carousing on shore leave.
The mixed crews of today, with occasional cases of pregnant female crew members, would be more foreign to that era's viewers than the movie is to the present day movie viewer.
This is an interesting point because such all-man crews are actually quite limited in time and country. It is true that there were not women in the American navy in the 1950s. However, there were women in the American and other Allied navies during WWII, albeit American women were not officially allowed on military ships. There were also women on British Royal Navy ships during the 18th and 19th centuries. And, of course, Israel is pretty famous for having women in its military. So, women on military ships wasn't exactly unheard of historically. It just wasn't done in the 1950s U.S. Navy.
I can't say why these particular writers chose to talk about men and women reaching the Moon and then later having military ships that were all-male, but such variations over time have occurred in history.
Innsmouth Free Press http://www.innsmouthfreepress.com share
I can't say why these particular writers chose to talk about men and women reaching the Moon and then later having military ships that were all-male, but such variations over time have occurred in history.
I too do not know why the screenwriters wrote what they did, but I would assume the trips to the Moon were made by scientific research ships, not military. The C-57D being military is made obvious by its numerical designation, uniforms, rank and weapons. Whether or not the screenwriters analyzed it to the point of making the scientific vs. military distinction is unknown as far as I know. However, the male/female tension is obviously intentional. The story could have been about Morbius and his wife, but the whole premise would have been altered.
As to women on ships, it was normally a privateer's ship. Usually the women were cooks or prostitutes. Some were even kidnapped and used communally for sex. There were some nurses, in the US, aboard ships used for naval support as early as the War of 1812. Women were first allowed to officially serve in a military capacity on US Naval ships in 1994. share
As to women on ships, it was normally a privateer's ship. Usually the women were cooks or prostitutes. Some were even kidnapped and used communally for sex.
In the 19th century the British navy issued campaign medals to all the men who had been aboard British ships in battles of the French revolution and Napoleonic Wars. Even to two men who had been born DURING two battles. Thus there were at least two VERY pregnant women aboard during naval battles.
In the mutiny on HMS Hermione in 1797, one of the leaders murdered an officer and then took the officer's wife, the only woman aboard, as his woman.
In the 1790s HMS Royal George suddenly sank while in port, taking with it 900 crew members and dozens of women and children visiting relatives. It is perfectly possible that a few of the women would have accompanied their mates when the ship sailed, if the ship had lasted long enough to sail out. share
As to women on ships, it was normally a privateer's ship. Usually the women were cooks or prostitutes. Some were even kidnapped and used communally for sex. There were some nurses, in the US, aboard ships used for naval support as early as the War of 1812. Women were first allowed to officially serve in a military capacity on US Naval ships in 1994.
Hmm, no. To add to what magolding said, Patrick O'Brian (who researched his Napoleonic era books very carefully) has one in which a crewman's wife gets involved in an onboard romantic triangle that ends very badly. In a more contemporary work, Persasion, Jane Austen strongly alludes to Anne's marriage to a sea captain meaning she will be joining him at times on the sea.
Women on pre-20th century commercial vessels were, if not common, hardly unusual. We have surviving logs/journals of sea life from whaling captain's wives, for example. The tragic wreck of the Petrel off St Andrews, Scotland in 1839 had a sea captain's wife and a black crewman among the victims (yeah, the blinding whiteness of the C-57D crew may be very Segregation era 1950s, but was not common for maritime history, either). It wasn't even her husband's ship. She had taken ill and been forced to stay on land to recover, then was taking another ship to catch up with him. Never in the account of the wreck is this portrayed as unusual, nor is it even hinted that the crew would have offered her any sexual harassment.
Then, of course, there is the disturbing mystery of the Mary Celeste from 1872, in which the entire crew, including the Captain and his family, disappeared off their ship in the middle of the ocean without a trace.
One of the biggest (and most inaccurate) cliches Hollywood has unfortunately put out there for nearly a century is that only prostitutes and maybe the odd uptight schoolmarm or two ever traveled to new frontiers or did anything exciting. That is simply not true. Historically, a crew with the makeup of the Enterprise D was as likely as that of the original Enterprise, let alone the C-57D.
Innsmouth Free Press http://www.innsmouthfreepress.com share
Dude, even today, in most countries, even the US, MOST military personnel are still men. Most navy crews are all men. Infantry and marines almost all men. In a ton of other countries, 100% men. It's not that foreign a concept.
shareI find this a very interesting topic, with much food for thought. First, allow me to say that I absolutely love FP. It ranks, tied with the Rod Taylor-Yvette Mimieux Time Machine, as my all-time favorite pre-Star Trek science fiction movie. Well...make that a 4-way tie with Disney's 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea and 20th Century Fox's Journey to the Center of the Earth. Hmm...my top four SF movies all date from the 50's or very early 60's. Am I state-of-the-art or what? (NOTE: I also love the original Star Wars trilogy, but I consider those movies to be space opera or galactic swashbucklers rather than SF.)
All that said, there are four things that make it possible for this pro-gender-equality woman to watch this movie without too much cringing.
1. The historical context of FP (mainly, its release date in the midst of the incredibly sexist and racist 1950's).
2. The character of Altaira. Remember that she not only received a very wide-ranging, high-level education, courtesy of her father (and perhaps teaching programs left behind by the Krell), but that she is also far from a pushover. Okay, so she falls in love with the Captain in pretty short order. But given the alternatives...
3. That repeatedly cited quotation about "men and women in rocket ships". Yes, it's true that the ship sent to follow up on the Bellarophon [sp] is staffed solely by men. Those moon ships were not. Also...
4. Obviously, the Bellarophon's staff was not male-only--and did anybody else notice that Morbius' wife/Alta's mother was a scientist (biologist, IIRC), while Morbius himself was...a philologist? Something like that. Anyway, if memory serves, Dr. M was no great shakes scientifically before he took the Krell brain-boost.
Something else just occurred to me as I was mulling over yet again that quote about "men and women in rocket ships". The phrasing of that statement leaves open the possibility--which I never thought of before--that some of the military vessels (not the colonizing ones, of course) could have been staffed by women only.
Unlikely, I admit, but doesn't it enrich the discussion just a bit to consider that possibility?
Sure would greatly reduce the likelihood of in-flight pregnancies.
Thirteen years out of high school, and I’m still at the nerd table.
I find this a very interesting topic, with much food for thought. First, allow me to say that I absolutely love FP. It ranks, tied with the Rod Taylor-Yvette Mimieux Time Machine, as my all-time favorite pre-Star Trek science fiction movie. Well...make that a 4-way tie with Disney's 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea and 20th Century Fox's Journey to the Center of the Earth. Hmm...my top four SF movies all date from the 50's or very early 60's. Am I state-of-the-art or what? (NOTE: I also love the original Star Wars trilogy, but I consider those movies to be space opera or galactic swashbucklers rather than SF.)
All that said, there are four things that make it possible for this pro-gender-equality woman to watch this movie without too much cringing.
1. The historical context of FP (mainly, its release date in the midst of the incredibly sexist and racist 1950's).
2. The character of Altaira. Remember that she not only received a very wide-ranging, high-level education, courtesy of her father (and perhaps teaching programs left behind by the Krell), but that she is also far from a pushover. Okay, so she falls in love with the Captain in pretty short order. But given the alternatives...
3. That repeatedly cited quotation about "men and women in rocket ships". Yes, it's true that the ship sent to follow up on the Bellarophon [sp] is staffed solely by men. Those moon ships were not. Also...
4. Obviously, the Bellarophon's staff was not male-only--and did anybody else notice that Morbius' wife/Alta's mother was a scientist (biologist, IIRC), while Morbius himself was...a philologist? Something like that. Anyway, if memory serves, Dr. M was no great shakes scientifically before he took the Krell brain-boost.
Something else just occurred to me as I was mulling over yet again that quote about "men and women in rocket ships". The phrasing of that statement leaves open the possibility--which I never thought of before--that some of the military vessels (not the colonizing ones, of course) could have been staffed by women only.
Unlikely, I admit, but doesn't it enrich the discussion just a bit to consider that possibility?
Sure would greatly reduce the likelihood of in-flight pregnancies.
While one could speculate endlessly why the crew of the Bellarophon was all-male within the film's universe, when there had previously been mixed-gender crews, the simplest explanation is that it's like that because that's the way it was in the source material, Shakespeare's "The Tempest." It doesn't mean this thread is pointless (because it's fun to speculate about the cultural values in the film), but the fact this is a futuristic remake of that play is the most likely cause for why the writers did it that way.
The Historical Meow http://thesnowleopard.net share
Have you ever watched Star Trek, the original series? Holy crap, it's hard to watch Kirk hit on every woman in the fleet. I like the sci-fi in the original series but the sexism is a bit much.
Sig, you want a sig, here's a SIG-sauer!
1. There are plenty of instances/examples of "strong women", even leaders, in OG Star Trek.
2. Just because it's the future, where all humans are equal, doesn't mean that a starship captain can't still be a "pussy hound", to be crude. Kirk was a good dude, but he also had a bit of an...."appetite", shall we say, at times. But hey, that wasn't unique to OG Star Trek. TNG takes place a hundred years later, and Riker is arguably more of a hound than Kirk. Hell, Riker doesn't even care if it's human, or necessarily female!
Nothing about a quasi-utopian future, precludes that some people aren't still going to be horny bastards. It's human nature.
A science fiction film made in 1956 looks and sounds dated in 2015/16?
You don't say. It's shocking! Shocking I say!:-)
One thing that is not dated is that wall lamp in Morbious's apartment. I have seen that thing as a floor lamp in at least three friends houses in the last year.
And Ann Francis certainly doesn't look dated. Wowza!
by JPLogan54
And Ann Francis certainly doesn't look dated.
The Captain "dated" her.
😎
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XenaGuy share
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Sixty years from now people will be laughing at the straitlaced Puritanism and group-think of the early twentieth century and its terrible fear of offending anyone.
shareTwenty-First Century. But I get your meaning. And I sincerely hope you're right.
There's great value in having consideration/compassion for other people's feelings, and NOT going out of your way to offend, or even hurt, others. But to imagine a future shaped by the UBER-PC popular sentimentalities of the last decade? That doesn't give me a ton of hope. One would hope we'd grow beyond the "constantly looking for something to be offended/outraged by" shit in the dust where it belongs.
Oh wook… a TOTALLY one-of-a-kind poster up in these regressive-infested boards thinks its dropping facts and showing its youngster enemies (that offends it) who’s a big toughie. Oooh! Wow, this site never sees this kind of broflake (sometimes karenflake) signaling!
But yawn… just another projecting broflake who cries about the good ol’ “tough” days (back when no one inconvenienced its “hardcore” kind) whining about PC, reich pill buzzword this and that, the icky modern generation being so sensitive (mmm, that boomer xoomer broflake projection is always flexing), and you know the rest. Needless to say, this is happening in MovieChat. Yes, MovieChat. You know, the safe space message boards for all the pro-book banning and back in my day reich wing broflakes who cry about [insert reich pill terminology here] 24/7 and CaNCeL CuLtUrE when in true reich wing fashion these “tough” broflakes live to cancel everyone who dares offend their old timey reactionary sensibilities. Don’t thread on me these broflake chuds say? In other words, don’t inconvenience me!
Hope? LOL. Well even though there’s CLEARLY many like it desperately trying to keep the traditional ways alive (such stereotypical fear-mongering reich pillers), thank fuck what its fragile reactionary decrepit kind considers hope is seen as the opposite by the “offended” broflake-disapproved modern generation that lives rent free in its toxic head. Uber-PC sensibilities? Sounds about altright and white, Uber-colonizer. Now it’s unnecessary to tell it this (wook at it responding to old message after old message that it found triggering like many of its kind do up in these magat boards!), keep crying some more and spewing the same garbage all yer fellow hopeless manbaby reich pillers obsessed with the big bad woke youngsters, modern film industry and world in general do all over this board (and everywhere online) constantly. As always, everyone that upsets your big boy self (from normal “sensitive” youngsters to the entire Entertainment industry) is obviously doing something GOOD. And keep doing it, enemies of the fascist cons!
Bish bye
Off your meds again, TrashCan!
shareHaha it's weird how homosexuals get so offended at things and then post several paragraphs pretending that they arent...
shareGive some examples.
share