The Kramdens were dirt poor. (That apartment would drive me to suicide!)
Yet, Ralph bowled, played pool, and belonged to The Racoon Lodge. These things all cost money. He seemed to have a normal social life. (No mention of his favorite hangout/bar.)
The only thing I can remember Alice doing was going to the movies with Trix.
He was a blue collar guy in a blue collar job, living in a blue collar apartment. The name of the show implies they were newly married and just starting out in life. Bowling and playing pool are not very expensive hobbies.
shareThe background of the characters says they were married about 14 years.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Honeymooners#Cast_and_characters
I never assumed by the title that they were newlyweds, but that they were very much in love.
As for the cost of Ralph's entertainment, I meant they barely looked like they could afford to eat!
I don't know about "dirt" poor. Ralph's income was probably the same as most other blue collar slobs at that time, and a good percentage of women back then didn't work, particularly the women with children. Alice could have worked even part time if she wanted to, but it wasn't important from a story standpoint.
Seems like if they were dirt poor, Alice would at least work part time at the delicatessen.
In sitcoms, you have a group of writers or even outside stories adapted to The Honeymooners, so we get different levels of the Kramden's fiscal situation. One of the constants was that Ralph was cheap and Norton was a spendthrift, which contributed to several stories. Alice did get a part time job when she wanted a phone, something Ralph considered an unnecessary luxury.
Jackie Gleason always wanted the Kramden apartment to look like the place where he grew up. His family was poor.
What ManNCheese said is true. Bowling and shooting pool are not expensive. My dad was a teen-ager in the fifties and he used to hang out in a pool hall with his friends. A game cost about a quarter. It's not like playing polo!
It's doubtful that dues where very high for the Raccoon Lodge. The members looked to be the same working class guys as Ralph and Norton. The lodge always seemed to be broke anyway and Ralph talked about how they had no money in the treasury.
Alice countered with the fact that they'd have plenty of money if they didn't waste it on foolish things, pointing to his Raccoon uniform, like "$25 for this Admiral Dewey sport jacket."
They did play Alice's few jobs for laughs. She got a job at a bakery when she was tired of housework and they hired a maid. That didn't last long.
She got a job as a secretary when Ralph was laid off. But she was, as she put it, "the only girl in the office". Ralph was insanely jealous of her handsome boss.
The babysitting job to pay for the phone lasted one day. Ralph thought Alice was fooling around with the man who hired her to babysit.
Ralph was just too possessive to allow Alice out of his sight.
I heard the Kramden apartment used here is the actual apartment that Jackie Gleason grew up in. And thats why they never showed the bedroom because it was always a mess
shareIn a recent rerun, where Ralph got laid-off (again?), they mentioned he made $67/week. As I was a Child of the 50's, I don't think that was bad. I remember my parents paying $45/month rent? We consider ourselves middle class poor.
That translates to about $762.00 per week in 2024 money, or nearly $40k per year--about $20.00 per hour.
shareThose were typical blue collar activities for the time. I don't think any of them would break the bank. Provided he didn't go to excess that is.
shareIn the 1950s my dad was a bus driver for Pacific Electric and the Metropolitan Transit Authority in Los Angeles. He also drove for Greyhound. Bus drivers usually made more than the average blue-collar guy. Our family of four lived in a three-bedroom house in a nice neighborhood, and we had a good car. I'm pretty sure Ralph and Alice could have afforded something better than that dingy one-bedroom apartment, even in New York City.
shareOne of my uncles was a bus driver, and had a nice, but modest home.
His wife, class conscious, was afraid people would think all bus drivers lived like the Kramdens. That set really was a dump!
I've only seen a few of the episodes, so I don't know if it was ever mentioned how long Ralph had been a bus driver. They were probably living in the same apartment they had since the day they were married, when they had little money. Maybe they had planned to save up for a down payment on a nice home, but we all know how Ralph was when it came to handling money.
shareTheir background info on WIKI says they were married 14 years.
It is more likely that Gleason wanted the set that way, as that is how he grew up, poor, and he wanted it reflected in the characters.
In one episode Ralph was lamenting the fact that he drove a bus "freezing in the winter" and "dying of the heat" in the summer and he says that he's been employed there for about fifteen years.
As for where the Kramdens lived, in the episode where Alice's sister Agnes is marrying Stanley (Ralph's lodge buddy), Ralph gives the groom some advice.
Stanley tells Ralph that Agnes wants to live with her parents. Ralph tells him NOT to! He says that he and Alice lived with them after they were married just until he got on his feet. He says that it was the worst five years of his life. Or maybe it was three or four. I just remember it was definitely years.
I think the fact that they are so poor is what appeals to me about the show.
It's unique. I can't think.of any other sitcom where the main characters lived in such a tiny, run down apartment.
I'm sure I'm not unique in noticing this, but the door to their apartment opens swinging to the outside of the place.
Which means the hinges are in the hallway, and anyone could take the door off from outside by taking apart the hinges.
I'm sure times were much simpler back then, but I still find it improbably alarming that people would have the hinges to their home vulnerable to whoever takes it in their mind to easily violate them.
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The only other place I've seen a residential door that opened outward was Walter Neff's apartment in "Double Indemnity", and Mike Nelson's apartment in an episode of "Sea Hunt". I don't think such a thing ever existed in a real-life residence.
shareI always wanted to see what was in that bedroom off the kitchen -- probably just a mattress on the floor! 😲
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I always imagined it with 20s or even Depression era furniture. Out of date but well cared for in nice condition.
Most likely two twin beds with night stands, and a dresser with a mirror. That's what my parents had in the 1950s. They didn't get a king size bed until the late 1960s.
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