MovieChat Forums > Kind Hearts and Coronets Discussion > Was the American Switch REALLY necessary...

Was the American Switch REALLY necessary?

posted 19 years ago by Dr_Keating
56 replies | jump to latest

Let me just start by saying I have just purchased the Criterion version of this film and believe it to be among the best pictures ever made.

Now, a question about the difference between the British and American endings.
I'm aware that the ending shot of the film was changed when shown to American audiences in order to adhere to the Film Productions code in order to appease clause #1:

1. No picture shall be produced that will lower the moral standards of those who see it. Hence the sympathy of the audience should never be thrown to the side of crime, wrongdoing, evil or sin.

Now, here's the thing. I don't see why a switch was so necessary. The Duke LEFT his handwritten confession, on the table, in his prison cell. Isn't it then assumed that EVENTUALLY, someone going into the cell is going to find it and find out he's a serial killer? Isn't the ultimate irony of the film that he's going to get caught for something so incredibly stupid after experiencing nothing but luck?

The memoirs were going to be found, and he would subsequently be hanged. Was it really necessary to SHOW them being read? I mean, isn't the american viewing audience smart enough to realize what happens next without having it shown to them?

"Mein Fuhrer, I Can Walk" -- Dr. Strangelove

[–] Mr-Brightside 19 years ago

Hardly surprising really, the American authorities seem to enjoy insulting the intelligence of it's public, hence the reason they seem to dumb down every last thing.

Randy "Macho Man" Savage - The best ever

[–] BForeman 17 years ago

Blah, blah, blah, another Euro or pseudo-Euro leftist with an inferiority complex towards the USA, how boring. Yes, yes, the USA is so prudish, so backward, keep on telling yourself that, and I'm sure it will improve you and your sniveling lot.

[–] 17 years ago

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[–] ThingyBlahBlah3 16 years ago

Incidentally, Harry Potter And The Philosophers Stone was retitled Harry Potter And The Sorcerers Stone in America through fear of the word 'Philosopher' confusing audiences.

Good example! I'm an American, and I find it hilarious that 'The Madness of George III' was retitled 'The Madness of King George' in the US. The reason? The distributors figured that American audiences wouldn't see it because they'd missed the first two parts of the series. Sadly, they were probably right.

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[–] Frumious_Bandersnatch_46 14 years ago

The distributors figured that American audiences wouldn't see it because they'd missed the first two parts of the series.

Is that why so many people were looking for "Apollo 1" thru "Apollo 12"?

[–] PR-7 14 years ago

> 'The Madness of George III' was retitled 'The Madness of King George'
> in the US.

Completely untrue. The change in the title between the play and the film was done in both the U.S. and the U.K.

> The distributors figured that American audiences wouldn't see it
> because they'd missed the first two parts of the series.

Your source for this, other than an urban legend? Who were the distributors who did so? NAMES, please.

As a clear example of American stupidity, were you aware that some Americans repeat, as fact, a story that a title change occurred only in the U.S.?

.
Screwtape: "Murder is no better than cards if cards can do the trick."

[–] FlamRatamacues 8 years ago

Actually, I remember them saying this at the Academy Awards that year when they did a behind-the-scenes look at films that had nominations. It is true that the producers were fearful that American audiences would think it was a sequel.

[–] PillowRock 14 years ago

Incidentally, Harry Potter And The Philosophers Stone was retitled Harry Potter And The Sorcerers Stone in America through fear of the word 'Philosopher' confusing audiences.

Well, that statement could be misleading, since most people (at least most Americans) tend to think of the word "audiences" in terms of people watching / listening in a theater or concert hall or similar venue.

In this case, the word "audiences" has to be understood to mean "readers" or "book buying public". That title change was made for the initial release of the book, long before anybody even contemplated making a movie based on it.

[–] 14 years ago

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[–] BForeman 13 years ago

Awww, as I said, inferiority complex. I know you know that America is better than the rest of the world. Your incessant need to put down America and Americans is, of course, pathetic. As a result, we win. Just like the London Olympics. We come to the UK and kick arse. That's the natural order of things, poor Tyler.

[–] 13 years ago

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[–] derekm23 11 years ago

What inferiority complex? ... for a country of 314+ million and GDP of $16.2E12 and the size of the GDP the U.S. did rather poorly (46 gold) in London 2012 compared to a country of say 63 million and GDP $2.5E12 (29 gold).

U.S. may have attempted to kick ass but fell on its arse.

[–] EmpireKing 8 years ago

I know you know that America is better than the rest of the world

America's better at sitting out the majority of two world wars, and obesity, I'll give you that much.

[–] robfwoods 11 years ago

Yeah right - who's the latest Miss South Carolina?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lj3iNxZ8Dww

[–] rdoyle29 8 years ago

If he's stating that the Hayes Office were insulting the intelligence of US audiences, that presupposes that Americans are in fact not dumb at all ... no?

[–] marktayloruk (2590) 3 years ago

The Hays Office was an insult to the American people - like all.censorship.

[–] lgron000 19 years ago

Although you're certainly right about just how obvious it is, it can be seen a simply a case of consistancy. There were so many flagrant violations of the code that were "hidden" basically only if you want to pretend that they're being hidden, but were allowed. It's abundantly clear that the Production Code was enforced by people who didn't understand, or didn't want to understant, anything less subtle than word-for-word, image-for-image reality.

[–] 19 years ago

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[–] indiekid33 19 years ago

What's the American ending? I have only seen the UK release.

[–] Dr_Keating 19 years ago

The American ending has the guards at the prison finding and actually reading through the memoirs he left on table. Making it absolutely clear to the audience that they knew what he did and he was about to be caught.

Talk about hitting your audience over the head with a sledgehammer to make sure they get it.

"Mein Fuhrer, I Can Walk" -- Dr. Strangelove

[–] trevpick-1 18 years ago

As has been pointed out in another thread the US distributors had no choice but to change the ending slightly and to remove the ambiguity; according to the Hays Code that regulated films distributed in America at that time 'crime must never be shown to pay.' In the Hays Code rules the criminal MUST get his cummupance by the end of the film. The US distributors had to change the ending slightly to make it obvious that the new duke couldn't possibly get away with it.

[–] scutterluke 18 years ago

the change of ending for the USA does weaken the picture, but it was not the first time, the ending of Whiskey Galore was changed for the American market, and it maybe why by the time the ladykillers is made Ealing decide to kill all of their lead characters,or maybe that was always ment to be the ending and had nothing to do with pleasing the Yanks

[–] pluto-11 18 years ago

LOL, by the end of the film I was actually pulling for him to get away with it. I'm glad I saw the English version (though it is assumed that he would eventually get caught in that version also).

[–] kuroinu77 18 years ago

The so-called "American ending" is not included in the DVD of Kind Hearts and Coronets in the US. Actually, there probably never was an "American ending." This whole thing is undoubtedly a figment of the poster's imagination.

[–] keith-hewle 17 years ago

If a peer of the realm is convicted of a capital offence in the United States he will certainly end up on the scaffold.
However the situation is slightly different in Great Britain. A British subject has the right in law to be tried by his peers so a Duke can only be tried in the House of Lords if he so demands.
Even if found guilty and sentenced to capital punishment, this would have to be ratified by the Monarch ( usually a relative ).

And when did the British people last hang a Duke ?

Film's conclusion a total fiction. Hornimans book exhibited a neater twist.

[–] bogwart-1 17 years ago

"A British subject has the right in law to be tried by his peers so a Duke can only be tried in the House of Lords if he so demands."

That right for peers was abolished in 1949. Since that time they have been tried in normal courts, like the rest of us peasants.

[–] 17 years ago

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[–] Frumious_Bandersnatch_46 14 years ago

Actually, there probably never was an "American ending." This whole thing is undoubtedly a figment of the poster's imagination.

When "Kind Hearts and Coronets" was first released in the US (1950), film releases were governed by a group called The Hays Office. It was an early attempt to police the 'morality' of American film. Established in 1922, the "Motion Picture Producers and Distributors of America" was colloquially called the Hays Office for its director Will Hays, a prominent attorney at the time — and an elder in the Presbyterian Church. Basically, without his stamp of approval a film didn't get shown in the US. And it didn't get his approval without adhering to his standards of 'morality'. The board was eventually renamed the MPAA (Motion Picture Association of America), but Hays' rigid code remained in place until 1968 when the new rating system came into use: G, PG, PG-13, R, NC-17.

Ever wonder why Ricky and Lucy had separate beds?* Thank Will Hays. Ever wonder why Clark Gable's "I don't give a damn" caused such a stir [in 1939]? Thank the Hays code that outlawed such language even though it was in common use by people everywhere.

Given all of that, there probably was an "American ending", insulting to both the British filmmakers and to the intelligence of US audiences. With the end of Hays' puritanical Code the original version was finally (and gladly) released in the US and that version is what we see on DVDs today.

*BTW: The first married couple to be shown sharing a bed on US television were Fred and Wilma Flintstone.

[–] blackno31 11 years ago

Wow that's somewhat ridiculous. The version I saw yesterday on TCM must have also been the original UK release because all it showed was his memoirs propped up against the ink bottle with the quill alongside. It was clear they were on the table of the jail cell, how obvious is that? Never mind that in the last 5 minutes of the movie, when they first come to tell him of the stay of execution, I'm yelling at the TV "Now go and pick up your memoirs, idiot!"

[–] JrnlofEddieDeezenStudies 16 years ago

That underminds both my intelligence and the whole irony of the ending.

Speaking of irony.

Is everyone in this house a total nutzoid or is it just me?

[–] kitcar_2000 14 years ago

I know this is 2 years late, but give the guy a break, D and E are right next to each other on QWERTY and AZERTY keyboards after all. I say it's an honest typo!

Still...it is pretty funny when people shoot themselves in the foot ;)

Behind this mask there's more than flesh. Behind this mask there's an idea & ideas are bulletproof

[–] Beaubelle 13 years ago

Thanks, kitcar, for being such a good sport as to leave the original intact, so us other latecomers can get the joke.

PS Yours is a mild example of the semi-literate garbling people complain on these message boards with--especially when they're correcting spelling, punctuation, and grammar--it must be Murphy's Law! ;)

[–] BoyFromOz 18 years ago

I haven't seen the American theatrical version with the adjusted ending, but it sounds absolutely dreadful as many others have pointed out, completely undermining the dramatic and comedic gravity and poignance of the final moments. I am glad, however that the original ending was restored for the US DVD.

[–] Enrique-8 18 years ago

It WAS dreadful! And pointless and unnecessary. Like having that last pointless sip of a beer when you know it was good...then the last one makes you sick...( I wonder about that analogy..)

Enrique Sanchez

[–] seldom- 18 years ago

Funny. The UK ending obviously suggests that Louis screwed up at the very last minute...
But at the same time my first thoughts were: "OK, so a written confession is lying on the table... sloppy, but so what? Walk back inside and say you forgot something. Worth a try. How fast do you suppose they can read, anyway? IF they even dare to look into the private papers of a Duke at all, they'll have to struggle through the introduction first..." Honestly, I thought he still had a pretty good chance to get away with it.

Aside from the 'sloppy ending' I love it every time I see it!

[–] alan-morton 18 years ago

The ending that seldom- sketches is left as a real possibility in the British ending.

After all, up to the point that he realises what he's done, Louis is faced with the dilemma of which carriage to get into -- which woman to favour. He has to make a decision there, which will have big consequences, but we never learn what he's likely to do.

So, in the same way we never learn the fate of his autobiography. A film of that time couldn't actually show him getting away with murder; but a British film of that time could leave open the possibility that he did. The point about the different American ending is that the US distributors recognised the ambiguity and had to make it quite clear that the bad were inevitably punished.

[–] SusanJL 15 years ago

Exactly, "seldom"!

[–] ThePaladin1 18 years ago

Frankly, I'm glad I only saw the English ending, I just watched the movie last night and really enjoyed it. I saw it mostly for Alec of course and he was brilliant but I'm glad I discovered Dennis price through it, he was absolutely amazing. I enjoy that kind of thing much more than the "hammer it in" endings of so many movies, Hays code or not.

Personally I think that it wasn't a "sloppy" ending, yes he could just walk back into the prison and ask for his papers back though that would be a little awkward to retreat after making his grand exit but thats not the point. You think the ending might be which woman he ultimately chooses to go with... but they you get the "oh *beep* twist when he realizes that he's screwed up and could potentially keep his final meting for his real crimes instead of the one he didn't commit. That's the iconic British understatement and irony

[–] sirk46 17 years ago

No American switch on Netflix. The DVD ended in the proper English manner amd I am glad for not knowing there was a 'Hayes' ending I did not see.
Spot On movie

[–] NirvanaNaslund 17 years ago

Because the version I saw left with a close-up on the papers.

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[–] pillfeast 17 years ago

I've got to disagree, sort of. I can appreciate the irony of his own carelessness and conceit being his undoing and I know I'm being very literal-minded (instead of literary-minded) but I can't see any reason why he wouldn't just go back upstairs, grab the memoir and chuck it in the fire. I think the whole business of the manuscript detracts from the more dramatic aspect of whether he'd go with Edith or Sibella. Obviously he'd physically go with Edith but what are his intentions? In the voiceover after his last meeting with Sibella he alludes to the fact that he might kill either one of them. In my opinion the best ending, censorship notwithstanding, would have dispensed with the memoir altogether and played up the fact that one of these dear ladies was for the chop but left it ambiguous as to which.

[–] amsboethius1 17 years ago

Remember, Louis is slick enough so that only Sybella figures out what his real plan is. No doubt the warden would be more than willing (given his attitude to the Duke as shown) to hand over the "dying declaration" of a High Peer of the Realm without looking at it, if Mazzini was quick to get the attention of the warders.

[–] 17 years ago

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[–] brunodutch 17 years ago

I just saw the movie on a DVD rented from Netflix in US and it had the correct ending: the memoir lying on the table. So it is available here.

[–] 17 years ago

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