MovieChat Forums > Arsenic and Old Lace (1944) Discussion > Some jokes many people won't get today.....

Some jokes many people won't get today...

posted 15 years ago by lewis-51
38 replies | jump to latest

.. that they would have in 1942. I can think of two:

1) As is mentioned on another thread: The world series would have been over by mid October, as there was no system of playoffs as there is today. Everyone would have known that. No way there would be a game on Holloween. Later on at some point, one of the characters remarks that "the bums", the Brooklyn Dodgers, just won the world series! That didn't happen finally in real life until much later (1955). That they were still playing on Halloween and the Dodgers won was a joke! Get it? They could only win on Halloween!

2) There are a couple references to "President Roosevelt" and "still president." Of course it's in the context of the crazy guy who thinks he's Teddy Roosevelt, but in the early 1940s, lots of people were thinking two terms was enough for FRANKLIN Roosevelt. I think that quick little joke will be missed by a lot of people today.

- henry

[–] notquitesane 15 years ago

Thanks for the interesting explanations! You are likely correct that many people nowadays won't get them. This is one of my all time favorite movies, yet having watched it dozens of times growing up I never caught those jokes. This film was made way before my time, so it's understandable, but were I a baseball fan or political history buff perhaps I would have.

'Allo.
Did you say... hello?
No, I said "'allo," but that's close enough.

[–] kingarthurup 15 years ago

Nice catch Lewis! In fact, it is funny how history has been re-written regarding FDR... Not only did his policies extend the depression, congress ran (actually galloped...lol) to add presidential term limits when he died.

As for jokes that some wouldn't get, how about Mortimer sitting in the frave yard with the marker reading Archie Leach?...lol

[–] 15 years ago

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[–] R_Meyer 15 years ago

When did the play open? The Dodgers WERE in the 1941 World Series. They didn't win it and it didn't last til the end of October, true, but Brooklyn had a World Series. (Against the Detroit Tigers I think.)

[–] R_Meyer 15 years ago

Correction. The Dodgers played the Yankees in the '41 World Series and lost in five games. The final game was played in Brooklyn on October 6, 1941.

[–] phildo 13 years ago

The play opened in 1941 (written in 1939), but the play contained no baseball references. Also, Mortimer and Elaine become engaged at the Brewster house in the first act, not married at city hall. Capra liberally changed the script from the play, just as he did with "You Can't Take It With You". Although both movies are great, the original plays didn't need to be reworked for the big screen. In my opinion, the original play scripts were better.

[–] Doghouse-6 15 years ago

Since you elected (pun only slightly intended) to bring politics into it, I feel compelled to respond.

The "re-writing" to which you refer isn't quite accurate. FDR's programs were indeed having an effect by his second term, but moves by both Congress and the courts reversed some of them, causing something of a "double dip," from which the economy didn't fully recover until the production increase occasioned by the war. That his policies "extend[ed] the depression" is closer to re-writing history.

Incidentally, the lone joke about FDR in the film comes from "Teddy's" line, "There will never be another Roosevelt in the White House," and Lt. Rooney's reply, "That's what you think."

Poe! You are...avenged!

[–] sludgehound 13 years ago

PBS running it tonight. Haven't seen it for years. "Get some rest" Grant's just married wife says as door is closing in reference to Grant's comment about her going home. Like there'd be any 'rest' on a honeymoon night!
This 1941 made (1944 release) film uses a lot of 'nuthouse' gags the way Harvey film did. 1940s was primed for psychological material played for laughs. Probably be too politically incorrect today?? Happy Dale rest home! "We're a bit short of Napoleans now." Supposed Nap is/was the most popular choice of delusionals.
Lot of 1930s based slapstick with Cary even throwing in nod to Stooges mannerisms that audiences were loving. Since his 'buddy' or 'buddies' in many of his comedies were female Grant had to be careful to not get too heavy into the solo routine of a W. C. Fields so he could keep his average guy image.
Anyway thanks to posters for the FDR comments. Wikipedia has the data on him.
Actually his 3rd & 4th (unfinished) were only Pres beyond 2 terms. Teddy R did make the Bull Moose Party third term attempt but failed with Wilson winning. Split vote likely caused Taft to lose. So US got Wilson and his pre WWI policies.
With US again on verge of cleaning up Europe's mess a second time, the issue of a long standing FDR Presidency it was no time to turn away from that popular family. 4 terms wow. Even today some people didn't want to see Hillary for Pres as extension of Bill's 2 terms.
btw check out how far back the Mormon Church goes in US politics. Wasn't aware they ran so deep so long. Of course today there are many in Congress on that
persuasion as well as seeking top dog. And don't get me started on Milt's father being born in Mexico - lol.
Bull Moose Party - Teddy R. Wikipedia:
Inspiration for the party's beginnings may have come from Roosevelt's friend and supporter, U.S. Senator Thomas Kearns of Utah, who in October 1906 broke off from the Republican Party and started the American Party in that state. Kearns was a Roman Catholic, and this was a direct response to the influence of the leadership of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints on the Senatorial elections between 1902 to 1905.[1]

[–] WileyDairyGnome 12 years ago

1940s was primed for psychological material played for laughs. Probably be too politically incorrect today??

I totally disagree...saying "we're a bit short of Napoleons now" is politically incorrect? How? It's funny, and most people I know would still find it funny.

-- I am a traveler of both time and space, to be where I have been

[–] Ten-Inch-Toni 11 years ago

I totally agree with you. Not politically incorrect. I think insane men thinking they are Napoleon stems from the "Small Man Syndrome" theory. Why wouldn't men frustrated to the point of insanity choose to 'become' one of the most powerful small statured men in history? This gag seems to pop up in a lot of old films regarding people who believe themselves to be Napoleon or someone famous.

[–] thomas-begen-194-976045 10 years ago

Except that at 5'7 Napoleon was at average height during his time in history. Not exactly a "small man" complex. He just wasn't tall. It would be the equivalent of a 5'10 leader in modern America.

[–] vinidici 9 years ago

True, but you left off from mentioning the popular misconception of Napoleon's height as "5'2." This myth concerning Napoleon's "diminutive stature" probably sprang from historical revisionism and false portrayals by the British.

Not that I'm not glad that the Brits were among the allied forces that gave Napoleon his "Waterloo"...

[–] vinidici 9 years ago

I tend to think that "The Little Corporal" would have taken back the Louisiana Purchase, at some point subsequent to a victory scenario that never came for him in 1815.

[–] dannieboy20906 9 years ago

France needed Louisiana as a place to grow food for their slaves in what became Haiti. The slaves and the arable land were committed to growing sugar cane for export back to Europe. After the loss of Haiti through the revolt of those slaves, they no longer needed Louisiana. They were also deep in debt and Napoleon badly needed cash to fund his wars of expansion. The Congress would not approve President Jefferson's proposed loans to France, so Napoleon sold Louisiana to the United States.

France under Napoleon was never in a position to win control of the European continent in the long run. They had the same problem in Russia that every invader has had before and since. There was just too much land mass for a foreign army to control. From the Battle of Trafalgar on there was never a chance that Napoleon could invade England, nor would they be able to stave off the British economic blockade of France. England controlled the seas and by doing so they controlled the initiative. That's why France began losing their allies.

Napoleon I (his succession was not assured, but since we analyze history with the benefit of hindsight, it is good to not forget his nephew, Napoleon III) may have wanted Louisiana back, though I doubt that he had that much vision. He was entirely focused on the European mainland. I think that even his desire to invade England was based on a desire to punish them rather than benefit economically.

Also, remember that the French (Normans) invaded England before. They won militarily and then were assimilated and turned into good English Anglo - Saxons within 130 years. Yet one more example of the difference between winning a war and changing the culture. It's a lesson that we (USA) would have done well to learn a long time ago.

The best diplomat I know is a fully charged phaser bank.

[–] indyrick4 10 years ago

Some people can't resist any chance to offer their personal revisionist history. Not really appropriate in this topic.

[–] 9 years ago

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[–] athomed 13 years ago

I always laugh when Johnathan says "Well, I'm Woodrow Wilson! Go to bed," to trump Teddy. Wilson beat Roosevelt and the 'Bull Moose Party' in the election of 1912.

___
Think about what you learned today. One: Don't screw with me. Two: Invite me... to your crap!

[–] Mandyjam 13 years ago

I missed that!

"great minds think differently"

[–] dannieboy20906 9 years ago

Go back and look up the election results. I think you will find that it was not that "Wilson beat Roosevelt and the 'Bull Moose Party" as that Roosevelt and the Bull Moose Party split the Republican vote. No candidate won a majority in that election. President Wilson won a plurality, 42 percent of the popular vote. Had the Republicans been united behind President Taft's reelection, they almost certainly would have won handily. Roosevelt and Taft shared 50.6 percent of the popular vote. I am assuming that the state-by-state count would have followed the national count and that would have given Taft an overwhelming majority of the Electoral College.

The best diplomat I know is a fully charged phaser bank.

[–] johandav 8 years ago

Had the Republicans been united behind President Taft's reelection, they almost certainly would have won handily. Roosevelt and Taft shared 50.6 percent of the popular vote. I am assuming that the state-by-state count would have followed the national count and that would have given Taft an overwhelming majority of the Electoral College.

Totally disagree. I think that if the Republicans had been united behind Teddy Roosevelt he would have won a convincing win. Taft was pretty darn unpopular and seen as a 'regular Republican' in a time when the country was leaning Progressive. Taft was only able to hold on to the nomination because the party machinery was behind him - Roosevelt crushed him in the primaries, winning eight of them to Taft's two (as many as Robert Lafollette won!) TR even beat him badly in his home state of Ohio. I think that if Roosevelt hadn't run a lot of the votes that he got would have gone to Wilson instead.

Alas! The next word is ‘pigs’ bristles’. We are undone, my good Watson!

[–] dannieboy20906 8 years ago

You do make a good point. It was Taft's repudiation of the progressive portions of Roosevelt's policies that fired up Theodore and caused him to form the Bull Moose Party. It's hard to tell what might have happened had he not run. We can probably agree that President Roosevelt made an enormous mistake in committing to one term of his own so early.

Sometimes the party leaders err. We might agree that they erred in supporting President Taft's renomination over President Roosevelt. This year I definitely think they should have made whatever rule changes they needed to pick nominee other than the one who won the most primaries. As much as the leadership may want to recognize the wishes of the membership, the nominating primaries, and the general election too, are non-binding plebiscites. The parties and the electoral college, respectively can nominate and elect whomever they want.

The best diplomat I know is a fully charged phaser bank.

[–] PatrickArchangel 12 years ago

Never really cared about the baseball jokes. Pathetic game.

[–] ElRaisuli 12 years ago

I wonder if people get the Taft joke near the end. Teddy had supported Taft to be his successor in 1908, and though Taft won, he and Teddy had a severe falling out. Teddy wound up running against Taft as a third party candidate in 1912. Teddy got far more electoral votes than Taft, but they both wound up losing badly to Woodrow Wilson.

Late in the film, when Witherspoon assumes a swayback posture that makes him look fat (as Taft was), Teddy says he "won't go with that man!" "What man?" asks Mortimer. "Taft!"

[–] fang123horn 12 years ago

I laughed at the "still president" bit because I knew Roosevelt was still in office but then again I'm a big history guy particularly the 20th century.

[–] marktayloruk (2590) 10 months ago

TR is one of my favourite Presidents.I laughed at Teddy's saying that there'd be no more Roosevelts in the White House.

[–] [email protected] (6247) 20 days ago

Certainly a film this old would have cultural references that a lot of people would not get today.

I first saw Arsenic and Old Lace in play form. Our local high school does a play every year and they invite the grammar school kids to see it for free before they do evening performances.

When our class saw it, they must’ve figured no one would get the Boris Karloff reference. I surely would have. I always watched old movies with my mom.

Instead they substituted a more current scary figure. Instead of Karloff, Mortimer’s scary brother resembled Barnabas Collins.

[–] jmastropolo 11 years ago

Actually, one of the aunts mentions that things have changed since they won "that old pennant thing". The pennant back then got you into the World Series so they didn't say that the Dodgers won the World Series.

[–] ObscureAuteur 11 years ago

Another thing people probably will not get is the references to Jonathan Brewster looking like Boris Karloff when on stage the role was actually played by Boris Karloff, a reference to his career breakthrough role in Frankenstein ten years before (1931 vs 1941). Unfortunately, Karloff was not available for the movie released in 1944. Raymond Massey does a fine job in his place, the in-jokes just aren't the same.

I wish they could have left the final lines alone "I'm a bastard!" bowdlerized to "Son of a Sea-cook".

CB

Good Times, Noodle Salad

[–] empathy44 10 years ago

I prefer "Son of a Sea-cook" because of the way it sounds. The alliteration and longer sentence sounds better to my ears. "I'm a bastard" sounds short and stubby.

We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are. ~ Anais Nin

[–] dioro 10 years ago

I'm a bastard would have been funny. Guess the censors didn't like that word.

[–] dannieboy20906 9 years ago

Even though IMDB does not block the word, I am pretty sure that 'bastard' was on the Hayes Committee's ban list.

The best diplomat I know is a fully charged phaser bank.

[–] GreenGoblinsOck8 (7986) 2 years ago

It's funny. He was unable to do this movie because he chose to do House of Frankenstein instead. Kind of a shame. Though I like House of Frankenstein it is inferior to this movie.

[–] jmastropolo 10 years ago

Someone may have addressed this already but: There is no line about Roosevelt "still President"; the line is actually (said by Teddy) "....and that will be the last of the Roosevelts in the White House" to which the Dr. replies : "That's what you think!" which is a pretty funny reply and is neutral politically and since the movie was made years before it was released, I don't think even audiences back then could have misconstrued the line as a dig at Roosevelt being in office too long as you did.

[–] 10 years ago

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[–] ObscureAuteur 9 years ago

And that Jonathan, due to Dr. Einstein's work, "looks like Boris Karloff" and on stage Jonathan was played by Boris Karloff. Can't even get that one from the movie.

CB

Good Times, Noodle Salad