MovieChat Forums > The Maltese Falcon (1941) Discussion > Mary Astor - worst casting ever?

Mary Astor - worst casting ever?


She was 35 at the time (but looked 45 due to her alchoholic habits) and looked like everyone's maiden aunt. She even had that annoying, yodely vocal style. This was the woman that every man she encountered (well, maybe not Joel "gardenia" Cairo) was willing to sacrifice his life for? In the book, the description was Veronic Lake to a tee. This is perhaps the only weakness in what may be the greatest all-time rookie-director debut. Supposedly, the ship's captain was Walter Huston, director's Dad.

reply

I completely agree. Her acting was excellent, but she looked more like Bogie's mother than a femme fatale! His fascination with her simply wasn't believable, and that was the one and only bad thing about this movie.

reply

i have to agree with the majority here, it just diddnt feel right. this was the first film noir and first bogart movie i had seen, about a year ago, and all the movies ive seen since just convinces me someone else may have been better.

reply

Its kinda ironic that Mary Astor, the weakest female actress in this film, gets the main female role. I thought that Sam Spades secretary stole every scene she was in and yet she's not even credited on the first page. She would have been a vastly better Brigid O'shaughnessy.

reply

When reading the book I always pictured Rita Hayworth as Brigid, mainly because she is described as a redhead.

_______

Creative Vacuum

reply

Flame me all y'all want, but I think the Maltese Falcon is somewhat over-rated.
After all, in the time of it's release, it was considered a "B" movie.

Don't get me wrong...it's a good film, definitely one of the best of it's time, but not of "All" time.

Technically, I found it lacking, editing and continuity frayed.
What was the point of Cairo going around turning off all the lights, if the level of light on the set remained the same? Ok, it was morning and they'd been up all night....so what?
Gutman flailing at the Falcon with a pocket knife....frantic scene supposedly to be enhanced with rapid fire editing was rather, just nauseating.

And finally getting around to the topic at hand, Mary Astor's acting was thin...her last ditch effort to save herself at the end was overly melodramatic and unbelievable. Crocodile Tears could not exact an ounce of sympathy out of me...
Basically every other leading-lady mentioned here, especially Hayworth, would have been a much better Brigid. Chalk one up to Astor's agent...he got her a real good gig....not because she was the best choice, but because he did his job.
But, I don't make films, I just watch them.

Bogart is an icon, but to classify everything he is in as a "Classic" purely by his presence; is unfair. Now "Casablanca", that's good stuff there.


6/10

reply

stirlingwarrior - I won't flame you, but I'll stick to the topic at hand (partly because some of your other comments I found a bit "lacking" myself - almost too silly to respond to). I don't believe the acting was thin at all. Her last ditch effort to save herself was INCREDIBLY melodramatic and unbelievable and did not exact any sympathy from me either. That was the point! Her whole performance was like that. Much like the book - excessively overblown. Someone said it previously: a good actress playing a bad actress. She did it very well. Glad to see the comment about Casablanca though. "good stuff" in my opinion too.

reply

I've read the book several times, seen the film many times and consider it in my top ten. To cast the Brigid role, we need a woman who looks like she has been around the world a few times, has scuffled with the Gutmans and Cairos and been the mistress and partner of Floyd Thursby. Maybe Stanwyck could have taken the part, but Astor fits it to a tee except for the awful hair-do. Most of her part consists of acting like someone she isn't. Even at the end are we so sure she isn't feigning love to keep her body out of the gas chamber? As for her lack of glamor, the men she was dealing with weren't looking for glamor, they were looking for someone who looked easy. The only surprise is that Effie doesn't see through her, which may tell us more about Effie than Brigid.

reply

Well stated Pamsanalyst.

reply

I think Mary Astor's performance is the key to the success of Maltese Falcon. Sure, Bogey is cool but the moments that sing are the dialogue scenes between the leads. The interplay between them is brilliant and shows to what heights actors can ascend. Timing, delivery, subtle movments and glances. Every line that the two of them throw at one another is veiled, misdirecting, and intelligent. Weaker actors could not pull off the multi-layered dialogue so well.

...and yes, she has the right look. She's hard as nails and always trying to portray herself as weak and needing protection. If she was too beautiful her relationships would always be about sexual tension rather than femininity.

reply

Well said, malcolm mccallum. To prove the point, watch her face just as she's about to confess.

Astor looks shopworn, true, but her character has been around - from Istanbul to Hong Kong to San Francisco.

reply


Everyone should remember, when grading Mary Astor's looks, dress, hair and performance, that, for the time, she fit the bill. Women in the 40's were rarely seen in public without a hat on...men either, for that matter. As a result of constantly wearing a hat, you had to pin your hair in such a way that it wouldn't become messy when you took your hat off. It also had to have a braid or some such something on which to pin your hat to so it wouldn't blow off. My great grandmother used to wear her very long hair in two braided pigtails which she wrapped around her head like a crown. This was so she could pin her hat to her head several times throughout the day without messing up her hair.

As far as Grace Kelly being cast in the role of Miss Shaughnessy, she didn't begin her film career until the 50's, and many of the top billed actresses of that time were too old or not the right fit for the character. I agree that her character needed that world weary sensibility to pull it off, and that she had. For the time, she was considered attractive. Certainly not by today's standards, but for the time she had the look. Spade and she did have chemistry. Again, for the time that the movie was made, their scenes were considered racey and frought with sexual tension.

When you watch old movies, you can't judge them based on today's standards. It was a very different world then.

"...Don't waste your life."

reply

Very well said, bongogal. That pretty much seals it. What most of the people here had a problem with was the hammy theatricality of Mary Astor's character. It wasn't that Astor was giving a poor performance; her character was simply a very poor liar, and Sam Spade was able to see right through her.


"Don't pay any attention to the critics; don't even ignore them."

reply

Men and Women wore hats in the 1920's and early 1930's and
that didn't prevent them from being SEXY and ALIVE

Go watch the 1931 version and WAKE UP!


reply

fawkbush = *beep*

reply

RE: "I thought that Sam Spades secretary stole every scene she was in and yet she's not even credited on the first page"


Lee Patrick {Effie} later played stereotypical roles as snooty, wealthy matrons with an affected speech pattern, which she patented. Examples: The "Topper" TV series as Mrs. Topper {with Leo G. Carrol as Toppper} and Vertigo, where she was seen heading for Madeleine Elster's Jaguar, which she had purchased after Madeleine died. "Effie" is a different role for her entirely, and it's intersting to see the contrast.

reply

Delightful Lee Patrick reprised her role as "Effie" in the 1975 take-off of FALCON called THE BLACKBIRD - Elisha Cook Jr (Wilbur the "Gunsel") was in it as well.

When the internet was invented, suddenly everyone became a critic!

reply

Many have said it already.

Mary Astor's character was a hard as nails grifter posing as a naive school marm. The "bad acting" belonged to the character, and was scripted.

She had the "look" of the times [early 40's]. In fact, look at Miles Archer's wife with whom Spade had an affair. Her look was similar. Neither would turn heads today, but at the time...

Spade liked her because she was tough and competent, even though she was the "bad guy". There is often mutual respect between evenly matched heroes and villains. He was doubly seduced - by her intelligence, and by her challenging opposition. Very few in the film could stand up to Spade. She could. And again, her look fit the times.

reply

Actually I disagree, Mile's wife looked like a reasonably attractive women in her late thirties, early forties, which matched the character in the book.

I have to agree with the main poster here, the thing is we're talking about casting in terms of the book. I've read the book recently and somebody tell me if I am incorrect, but the character is supposed to be 24 and very attractive.

Also whoever said her character used feminism not sexuality, that's actually so wrong it's not true. The ONLY thing that she has going for her IS her sexuality, bare in mind they do actually sleep together in the book. Up until that point Spade couldn't have cared less and she had to use sex as a diversion to stop him asking awkward questions as to what the case was really about. I do agree that Spade was always on to her on some level and he hinted in the film and the book that he could only relate to women from a physical standpoint.

Astor's actual performace was bang on, she was a poor femme fatale basically, who's ambition was greater then her reach. But looks wise she actually just looked weird, almost pyschotic with that pointy, lopsided hair.

reply

[deleted]

i think this movie was not only misguided in its casting but also that it lifted too much from the book. Its hard to digest noir when the actors are having trouble delivering an entire page in one breath. While I am a much bigger fan of Raymond Chandler and I thought That "The Big Sleep" was miles above this tripe in every aspect, its no fault of the Hammett novel, as i was fan. Clearly this is a mediocre attempt from a first time director who i felt failed to distinguish himself during the span of his career. Watching this was as painful as one would imagine it would be like to watch a peter jackson movie without cgi. why not just film the pages book and give out awards for best page flippage.

In no way is this trolling and its certainly not the worst movie above an 8, but can't we all agree that Bogart is way overated. - the end

reply

"i think this movie was not only misguided in its casting but also that it lifted too much from the book."

That's unusual - Most often people whine that movies are not faithful enough to the book.

Tripe? Mediocre? Failed to distinquish himself? I don't think so. Try being critical without being rude. It can be done.

reply

I read the book first and Bridget's character sounded really sexy. And in the first scene of the film Spade's secretary says, "You'd want to see her. She's a real knockout." Enter Mary Astor, and I'm like, "Ah, nuts."

reply

[deleted]

Mary Astor was a marvelous actress, but hardly looked the part of an alluring femme fatale. I disagree that Spade was just playing her to get to the bottom of the case. A significant aspect of the film is Spade's ambivalence toward Ms. Wonderley/O'Shaugnessy. He "sends her over" in spite of himself, or, as he puts it: "I won't play the sap for you, because all of me wants to."

Brigid should have been gorgeous, as well as duplicitous and lethal. Jane Greer would have been perfect for the part, but, unfortunately, she had not quite made it to Hollywood in 1942.

Of the unearthly beauties who had, Hedy Lamarr comes to mind, particularly if they had provided her with an acting coach.

reply

Why don't you watch the 1931 version... it stars the young and sexy
Bebe Daniels... The 1941 version is a joke in comparison...

The 1931 version was made for adults...

The 1941 version was a re-make made for conservative nuts
because they couldn't handle the adult themes of the original
version... to mention sex, prosititution, homosexuality, etc.
in the 1940's was unthinkable (Gasp!) ..

I really don't understand how ANYONE could honestly say the
1941 version is better than the 1931 ... unless they were some
conservative religious nut...

reply

I couldn't be further from being a "religious conservative," but I'll take Bogart over Ricardo Cortez any day. John Huston wasn't too bad of a director either. Sydney Greenstreet and Peter Lorre may have been the most entertaining screen pair ever.

And, as great as Dwight Frye was, Elisha Cook, Jr. made a better gunsel.

I agree that the '31 version was more explicit, but that was simply because it was pre-code.

Don't think John Huston would have been timid if he had been given a free hand.

reply

You forget that the Hayes Commission was not on Hollywood's back in 1931. When the Hayes Commission got on board, everything changed as to what could be shown or said in the movies. Directors (like Hitchcock) snuck things in though to distract the censors.

reply

the 1931 version is for rabid freak troll bigots like fakebush who whine constantly if people like a version with the ultmate noir man ever. shut up, people like this one, get over it. go watch your old vhs copy and masturbate to it.

reply

Agree. From the first time I saw the movie on TV as a youngster to today, I just can't get by Mary Astor in that part. Her hairstyle sucked, even for the period. Lauren Bacall would have been better and Bette Davis would have sparkled as she was in her prime at the time.

reply

Betty Davis wouldn't have been available to them, and probably not affodable either. But Astor did a fine job with what she was givne. Just finished watching it again, and yet again she looked perfect in her role as the chronic liar who was not very good at it, but persisted despite setbacks. She wanted to be the femme fatale but never succeeded at any time.

reply

Yeah, I didn't think of it in those terms, Thanks. But you must admit, if Bette Davis was available, she probably would have walked away with the Oscar.

reply

Possibly. It certainly would have made for a stronger part, though I am not a great fan of Bette Davis in those early years, she did have presence and ability.

reply

Yeah a mis-cast, like Barbara "Babs" Stanwyck in DOUBLE INDEMNITY. (At least, I wouldn't kill for "Babs").

Why not casted Gene Tierney (LAURA), Yvonne de Carlo (CRISS CROSS), Louise Brooks, Lana Turner, Lizabeth Scott (DEAD RECKONING), Ava Gardner (THE KILLERS). Even the underrated Veronica Lake (SAIGON [1948], THIS GUN FOR HIRE)....

By-the-way, a lot of young gals had an older man as co-star in those days (for instance in I MARRIED A WITCH: Veronica Lake, age 20 with Fred March, age 43).

reply

What about Joan Fontaine or Paulette Goddard?

reply

Joan Fontaine would have been good but even better would have been Claire Trevor. She had a similiar role in Born to Kill opposite Lawrence Tierney and would have been perfect as Brigid O'Shaughnessy.

reply