MovieChat Forums > Gone with the Wind (1940) Discussion > I'm sorry, Rhett kind of sucks

I'm sorry, Rhett kind of sucks


This a pretty pointless thread to start because we know the boards will soon be shut down, but i don't know where else to post about GWTW. I have loved this book and film since I was a little girl, and loved Rhett most of all - his sassiness, his honesty, and his being the only character to put Scarlett in her place (well, Mammy comes close). But i just finished listening to the audiobook for the first time in 20 years, and i can't believe it - I kind of disliked him! He's SUPER mean to Scarlett, I think meaner than her!

For most of the book, I was able to maintain my view of Rhett as a charming and dashing renegade, who constantly teases Scarlett good-naturedly. But almost as soon as they marry...my god! What, he just expects her to change immediately? Isn't that kind of common knowledge, that you aren't supposed to rely on marriage to change anybody? He didn't suffer any illusions about Scarlett, he completely understood her and knew exactly what he was getting into. Also, why the hell did he think he could win her over with constant insults? People usually don't respond warmly to that.

I sympathize with his statement that Scarlett would have held his love for her over his head had she known, and thought him weak. This might be true. But part of real love is admitting you are vulnerable, and that is a necessary step Rhett needed to take to find happiness with Scarlett. I don't mean to imply Scarlett was not cruel too, but IMHO her reasons were more sympathetic. Almost all her outbursts at him are in response to something he did or said.

The scene where he returns from his long trip with Bonnie kills me, how Scarlett is waiting on the stairs with her heart full of joy to tell him she is pregnant with the first child she actually wants. How he utterly destroys this moment with his coldness and distance, and is somehow surprised by her hatred. How he waited to be called into her sickroom when she fell down the stairs,when he should have been sitting by her side, holding her hand, whether she wanted him or not. How he mocks her in public, calls her a bad mother (oh, so to be a good parent all one needs to do is give your child everything their heart desires and turn them into a spoiled brat? Good to know), implies she's stupid, and pretty much thinks she's the worst person of all time. Sometimes i find it hard to believe he really did love her.

I guess i always felt like Rhett got the rough end of the stick in this story, but i don't anymore. He didn't know Scarlett as well as he thought, because he rarely considered her good qualities, aside from the occasional throwaway comment about how he admires her spirit. Well, maybe he did before the marriage. However, i will say i think Scarlett's decision to lock him out of their bedroom was extremely damaging and probably prompted his cruelty. Still...he did and said some awful things that I can't forgive.

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Think Margaret Mitchell did a great job of showing both of the lead characters as very flawed people.
I have read the book several times and always come away feeling differently about Rhett each time.
Sometimes I feel Rhett was manipulatave and controlling, then other times I feel he was very tolerant and misunderstood.
And of course, I always find Scarlett a spoiled brat, but also admire her courage and drive. Think that is the popular opinion of Scarlett, she isn't necessarily likable but is admirable.
Can't help but feel that is what Mitchell was aiming for with Scarlett.
As for Rhett, he is more mysterious. Think him trying to be nonchalant with Scarlet was his Achilles Heel. Because he obviously cared deeply. So therefore at times he became mean, from bottling it all up too long.
A lot of the mystery and misunderstanding of Rhett is not really knowing much about his upbringing and what all he endured.
One constant, is that always finish the novel disliking Ashley (and a little more each time- ha ha)
See, this is why I am gonna miss this board. Because of interesting posts, to discuss, like this one :(

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Entirely based on the movie again. There is something very wrong with Rhett. Scarlett is honest to everyone about her feelings, of whatever nature, as soon as she finds out about them herself. And, of course, both Charles and Frank were in no doubt about how little she loved them. Rhett however, is scared to bits to admit his. Concerning Scarlett even towards Belle, he would never dare to attend her or anyone's sickbed unless explicitly asked, notice how he left just before Melanie died too. With all the script rewrites, I often wonder if they did manage to keep hold of the whole thing, or, if it just somehow fell into place in the end - either way, the dialouge fits perfectly. "There is one thing that I do know, that is that I love you Scarlett", vs "Heaven help the man who ever really loves you", a few years later. "Someday I want you to say to me the words you said to Ashley Wilkes, I love you" - and when she finally does, he packs and runs! Something in his childhood must have gotten really screwed up, maybe another reason he is almost obsessed to do everything right for Bonnie.


"Print both three." - Alex Korda

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I don't think Charles ever knew the truth, he didn't live long enough. He died believing Scarlett loved him and that they had a wonderful future together.

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"Honest to everyone"? To Frank, Charles, Melanie - are you kidding? What film did you watch?

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I've never read the book, though after viewing (most of) GWTW again last night, I plan to. I just wanted to add what is probably a superficial comment from someone not familiar with the source material, and only slightly knowledgable about the film, in general:

After years of reading and hearing this or that comment about what a great love story existed between Rhett and Scarlett, I remember my 'WTF?' Reaction the first time I'd seen the film, and that has only increased with more recent viewings. I know Scarlett was headstrong, and Rhett apparently admired that in her, as well as enjoying the chase, but his psychology is fascinating, as another poster said, sort-of ("something is very wrong with Rhett" ).

Definitely gotta buy and read the novel.

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I agree. Scarlett is better off without Rhett. He was very controlling and threatened her with violence. He also may have raped her. I like movies with happy endings so I think this film is overrated.

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I like movies with a bit of real human behavior. Scarlett was a fool! She spent most of her adult life mooning over that ding dong Ashley, who left her hanging all those years while he hung onto Melanie, who actually was the strong one in that relationship!
I personally feel that movies with happy endings are downright DULL!

As for Scarlett? I think Rhett was better off without her.

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"Scarlett" didn't think so. Not a particularly bad sequel per se but utterly spoils Gone With The Wind"'s gut punch of a final line.

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He (Rhett) was very controlling and threatened her (Scarlett) with violence. He also may have raped her.


Well, I'd take a threat over getting slugged anytime. Rhett may have been full of bluster but Scarlett struck Rhett, Prissy, Suellen, and Ashley. Double standard?

Regarding the "rape" scene, it was not a rape in the 1800s, it's a rape today, 5 years from now a kiss will be a rape, 20 years from now speaking to a woman without her first speaking to you will be a rape..


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I think the fact that he aws controlling was the reason why she loved him at the end of the story. Ashley was just her imagination of love. But Rhett was her real world love affair. And her major flaw (and the reason why this relationship broke) was, that she never realized that line between imagination and reality. And Rhett tried to explain that to her and forgive many of Scarletts flaws resulting of the missing line drawn ..... but at the end if was more then he could handle.

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"Scarlett is better off without Rhett"

Then the ending should be happy for you.

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Both Rhett and Scarlett are extremely interesting people, for all their flaws, and I can't help liking Rhett.

Not just because he's mega-hot, on both page and screen, but because he was written as a "modern" man, the one who calls bullshit on everyone's delusions and who turns out to be right about many things. Now when he's telling the idiotic Southern Gentlemen that the North has more money, more cannons, and more men and they'd be fools to start a war they can't win you can't help but admire him, but having him call bullshit on Scarlett's flaws is of course more personal and less comfortable. The fact is that Scarlett is extremely flawed and full of it in many ways, especially in her adoration of the useless Ashley, and BTW you can't blame him for getting on her about that once they're married! Okay, he did threaten her with violence, but in an era when wife-beating was legal and expected and killing an unfaithful wife was as tacitly permitted as lynching ... he gets some credit for leaving things at the threat level. He could have killed her with impunity, and because he was an upper-class man who'd have been "defending his honor", he'd have suffered no social or legal consequences.

His honesty and insight could have been the basis of a real meeting of minds and part of a fantastic relationship, because Scarlett is cunning but doesn't have much depth of understanding - she could have gained much if she'd let herself learn from him. But that's the tragedy of GWTW, two people who are so great for each other in SO many ways couldn't make things work.

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Nice post.

I'd like to add that threatening means little with no history. I doubt Rhett ever struck a woman and I'm sure Scarlett knew this.

There are those who watch the old Honeymooners and complain about Ralph threatening to send Alice "to the moon". Ralph never hit her, never would hit her, Alice knew this, and anyone who thinks otherwise is a snowflake.

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Well done, otter and strntz; OP, not so much, and it is clear that you had no idea of what marriage was like in the time when the movie, let alone the book, was produced. There's this thing called history. I'd tell you to look into it, but you're no longer here.
The classic literary definition of tragedy is that a person is placed in
an impossible situation that no person can overcome, which, therefore, takes his/her full measure, and we marvel at HOW CLOSE s/he comes to transcending the problem. Tragedy in fact aggrandizes and celebrates the greatness of the human spirit, while comedy mocks and trivializes it. The greatness of Gone With The Wind, the movie, is its two legendary, flawed, HUMAN protagonist lovers.

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Thanks! And if anyone is wondering what kind of history to look up, I suggest they look at "the unwritten law"; which was last seen in the 1950s film "Adam's Rib" (I hope). Basically the "unwritten law" was that a man had the right to kill an unfaithful wife; it was widely believed that murdering a wife who'd had sex with someone else was justifiable homicide and defending his honor, and that he wouldn't be prosecuted. So Rhett could actually have gotten away with killing her since she was widely believed to be faithless and they both knew it, since he didn't even hit her he's showing infinitely more restraint than was expected for a man of his time and class. But like I said, he was written as a more "modern" man, he embodied a lot of early 20th century ideas and ideals.

And yeah, that definition of tragedy is spot-on for GWTW.

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No, I'm here.
I can see how the historical context of the time is relevant, and the post by Otter is indeed really interesting and thoughtful. But R_Kane's unhelpful condescension and rudeness is completely unnecessary, not to mention your assumptions about me are wrong. Just because Rhett's behavior was lawful at the time does not mean I have to like it, or think he was right.

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I unapologetically calls ‘em as I sees ‘em, and could not care less about your opinion.

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The fact that she loved Ashley and mainly used Rhett for her goals is ..... more sympathic :) ?

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No but hey... She's the women, so basically, the victim...

It's funny how things simply swept places instead of reaching equality. Women nowadays don't even seem to realize that most of them behave like hypocritical, self-centered and arrogant bitches. It's like now we have to expect it because it's the norm.

If anything, GWTW kinda showed the best of the two worlds. Both Rhett and Scarlet are flawed human beings, who try as much as they can to make things works and by the end, it doesn't work. Yes, Rhett was mean, but so was Scarlet if you really think about it. But Rhett never went the whole way with his threats, while Scarlet went the whole way with her selfishness.

Both are wrong on their own ways, but both are humans raised in a society that allowed way worse.

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One of the problems is that many of todays "modern" women behave like the sexist men idiots form the 50s :) . I dont think that this was the goal of the quality movements of the 70s and 80s :) .

An im not so sure that Rhett was even close as mean as Scarlett. She was a real badass (thats compleely fine for me, cause thats part of the reason why this movie is so amazing!). Rhett on the other side was a noble guy, which had its violent moments and sometimes overreacted. But again ... compared with all the things Scarlett did ..... he was almost an angel :) .

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Uh... that's not at all what I said? Here's a direct quote from my OP:  "I don't mean to imply Scarlett was not cruel too, but IMHO her reasons were more sympathetic. Almost all her outbursts at him are in response to something he did or said."

I meant their verbal cruelties toward each other, not the scope of their entire motivations. Obviously Scarlett does many unsympathetic things.
I'm always so surprised how many fans of this movie/book just despise Scarlett and any defense of her.

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I'm always so surprised how many fans of this movie/book just despise Scarlett and any defense of her.


I suspect those who actually don't like the character Scarlett are the most vocal. Without context, we don't know how many people do or do not like her.

Still, Mitchell wrote Rhett to be the sympathetic one here. Scarlett was written with a big ol' bag of issues (some by circumstance, yes) but she did things that, while necessary in her mind if not in reality, crossed the line that a lot of women wouldn't forgive. Stealing her sister's fiance for money is a biggie.

It would be interesting to see what percentage of GWTW fans actually do "despise" her.


EDIT: I asked my wife (she also is a big fan of GWTW), and she said she hates Scarlett. I don't think it's a gender issue - I think it's a character issue. While necessity certainly shaped Scarlett's later machinations, she also was self serving and scheming before the war.

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I think she’s a prototypical SURVIVOR character and it wasn’t fair of Timothy Dalton to call her character a “cunt”.

The Reformation were tough times for Southerners.

It’s just a shame the sequel book was even lamer than the TV movie.

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"I'm always so surprised how many fans of this movie/book just despise Scarlett and any defense of her."

Great... a white knight, or at least is what I see here. This is the reason why feminism got such a bad reputation: you just can't speak against a female character without receiving THIS kind of response.

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I watched it last night for the first time. I don't get how could anyone like Rhett. You really feel bad for Scarlett at the end even if she was a spoiled brat for the first half of the movie.
And I'm a guy, BTW.

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Scarlett was super rude to Rhett when he returned from London. He was happy to hear she was pregnant, but she was upset and said "Its because Im going to have a baby!" Then pushes him away. He then has to act mannish and says "Who's the happy father?"

"You know its yours! No woman should have a baby with a cad like you! I wish for anyones child but yours!"

So she has a horrible tantrum and insults him for getting her pregnant. So he simply says "Cheer up, maybe you'll have an accident." Then she screams and falls down the stairs. Yet this is HIS Fault? How can he read her mind that she's really happy to be pregnant but then insults him? Scarlett was always passive aggressive with Rhett. Even after that night he gave it to her good in the sack, she's all smiles when he walks in and then dismisses him when he apologizes.

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What movie did you watch?

"Scarlett was super rude to Rhett when he returned from London."

Did you miss the part where she was elated he'd returned, and then he said only to bring back Bonnie and reiterated that Scarlett was a terrible mother? How is she supposed to give the good news that she's pregnant when he thinks she's a terrible mother?

"So she has a horrible tantrum and insults him for getting her pregnant. So he simply says "Cheer up, maybe you'll have an accident." Then she screams and falls down the stairs. Yet this is HIS Fault?"

He continues insulting her to the point where she gets so upset she tries to hit his chest. He jukes out of the way and she falls down the stairs. She didn't just scream and fall down the stairs on her own. I'm not saying it's his fault. It was an accident. But he should certainly feel guilty for antagonizing his pregnant wife and for what he said.

"Scarlett was always passive aggressive with Rhett. Even after that night he gave it to her good in the sack, she's all smiles when he walks in and then dismisses him when he apologizes."

Pretty sure that was her defenses going up after seeing that he regretted what she thought was a good night for their relationship.

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Why are you “sorry,” OP? I don’t think you’re sorry at all. I think you are trying the defend yourself from dissent, in which case, you are defensive, but not sorry.

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