Lost Horizon 1973



I am sorry, but I guess that I am the only person on the planet who
actually liked, no loved the 1973 version!!! I have seen both and forgive
me but was bored stiff during the 1937 one. I loved Burt Bacharach's music
in the remake, the plot changes, the wonderful cast and just about every-
thing else!! We used to have the record (old days) and the piano score.
I memorized every song and dance and when I was a little girl would dance
and sing to it for hours. That version really moved and stirred me! I
am a school teacher today and I honestly believe part of that is due to
Liv Ullman, the beautiful school teacher and also I must give credit
to Sydney Poitier in "To Sir with Love". I can't find this 1973 version
anywhere! They said it was a "turkey" and didn't think it would sell.
That actually angers me. I hope someday I can find a video or DVD of this
show. I read an e-mail where someone made fun of everything about it and
said how terrible the music, dancing and cast were?!!! He especially
hated "The World is a Circle" the song Liv Ullmann-the teacher, sings
with a group of beautiful children in the lovely setting of shang-ri-la.
THAT was my favorite song. I just feel the need to stick up for this
version-so the world will know that not everyone hates it! In fact,
it's one of my favorite movies of all time!!!!!!! Michelle Fotheringham

reply

I loved this version as well. It's not available on home video or dvd. Hopefully, it will be on tv again and you can tape your own copy.

reply

[deleted]

[deleted]

The remaining cast members pay to keep this one unavailable!

"I don't use a pen: I write with a goose quill dipped in venom!"---W. Lydecker

reply

[deleted]

Sorry, anybody who says they love the 1973 movie and were "bored stiff" by the 1937 original has some serious taste issues. I don't like to be nasty but the remake is one of the worst films of its or any year. Very good cast, yes, but lousy direction, inane script, two-dimensional characters, no sense of awe or mystery or wonder, and positively the most dreadful musical numbers ever committed to film (and I use "commit" in the same sense one would use it in tandem with the words "a crime"). Awful music and even worse choreography and singing.

The 1937 film had all those elements of other-worldliness utterly lacking in the remake. Certainly it has its flaws and drags a bit at times (mostly the Colman-Wyatt scenes), but that's a small thing compared to the overall feel and impact and meaning of the film. Its cast was perfect, screenplay, musical score, photography, art direction, all first-rate and imaginative...not to mention being directed by one of the true giants of world cinema, Frank Capra. Plus, this basically is a period piece in the sense that the story could really only take place in the 1930s; by the '70s the notion of some unreachably remote outpost hidden in the Himalayas was becoming untenable (today, with GPS and thousands of climbers scrambling around the mountains with cell phones, it just couldn't happen).

I can maybe understand someone liking both versions but to adore the remake and find the original bad is just daffy. Lost Horizon 1973 is a lousy, lousy movie, period. Audiences saw it for how bad it is. Not for nothing was it nicknamed "Lost Investment" around Hollywood. The film that ended the movie career of producer Ross Hunter, hitherto known for his box-office magic.

To each his own, of course, but six billion people can't all be wrong.

reply

Sorry, anybody who says they love the 1973 movie and were "bored stiff" by the 1937 original has some serious taste issues.

Maybe for the OP it's one of those songs-of-our-childhood things, where we feel affection for a song or a movie not because it's good, but because of the warm memories we associate with the times we first became familiar with it, or who we saw it with.

For myself, for example, there are a few songs of the late 70s I love hearing, because they take me back to the time when I would ride the bus to school holding the hand of my first girlfriend. So they'll always be special to me for what I associate them with, even though as songs they're utterly banal.


You might very well think that. I couldn't possibly comment.

reply

Yes, I agree with that. Childhood impressions stay most strongly with us, especially, it seems, with music. (I'm obviously about a dozen years older than you so you'd think my 50s & 60s rock preferences quaint, if not in bad taste!)

I thought about this factor when I wrote my post but the thing that alarmed me was that the OP seems to be thoroughly enraptured and uncritical of the '73 film, not only its music but everything about it. And, of course, she completely dislikes the original. That's what I find unfathomable.

reply

And, of course, she completely dislikes the original. That's what I find unfathomable.

Really? I find that easier to understand than anyone actually liking the remake.

I quite enjoy the original myself, and have just rewatched it, which is what has brought me to this discussion board. But I recognised all over again that it has its own inherent prejudices, judgementalism and dogma -- it's every bit as elitist and totalitarian as the world-view of the 1930s that it appears to be warning against. It asks people to think and question, in its grim 1930s way, but doesn't offer much of substance as grist for the mill; its winning philosophy appears to be to force the whole world to be Christian, under some naive belief that if you're Christian you don't have conflict with anyone. (Yeah, right. History doesn't exactly bear that out, does it?) The movie tries to make it a positive step that -- by implication -- we should all try to emulate (to find our own Shangri-la, in whatever fashion), but hedges its bets by setting up a solid reason for each of the characters why they are better off *not* going back to the outside world, so ultimately their choice is one of pure self-interest -- which completely undermines the yearning and the sense of found peace it tries to convey. And when you boil it down, after being all stern and disapproving about the world, this movie's best answer to things you don't like is to simply run away from them.

The remake has a lot of the same problems, most of them equally unaddressed; but it does tend to bathe everything in a fuzzy 70s feel-good quasi-mystical glow, which gives the appearance of having smoothed off the jagged edges, and making the pill at least an attractive colour even if it still doesn't taste very good. Plus it does have music (albeit sung by people who can't sing) and dancing (likewise performed by people who can't really dance) -- and more to the point, a lot of this is done by children, which always seems to be a winning quality for overly-sentimental people.

It's a fair while since I've seen this remake myself, and I wonder if I'd see it differently if I watched it again nowadays. But I suspect I'd feel about it much the same as I feel about the musical remakes of "A Christmas Carol" or "Goodbye Mr Chips", which simply make me shudder.


You might very well think that. I couldn't possibly comment.

reply

Well, I do find it interesting that you think it more understandable that someone dislikes the remake than likes the original. I can't understand that understanding!

But I happen to agree with your other observations above. In a less thorough form, I made a few similar points on a thread here entitled "Would you...". (The thread runs three pages so far; I joined it at the last and am at this moment still the most recent contributor.) If you care to, you might want to look in on that thread. The OP had a good question (it's "Would you stay or go?"), which got hijacked by two people for a couple of pages, but which he finally brought back around late on page 3.

Without repeating myself too much, essentially I felt that the kind of world represented in LH is one that was peculiarly of its period (the 1930s), and consequently reflected that era's many flaws in its vision of an ideal society and of the world at large. Both films are basically faithful to the novel, but all spring from a narrow, as you say, Christian-oriented (as it were) ethos and an elitist sense of society.

The problem from our standpoint today is that the fundamental concept of the book (and, hence, the films) is limited in scope and anachronistic in its notion of a social, or societal, ideal. We don't take kindly to its hierarchical structure and religious-based strictures. And the inherent ethical contradictions that even this film alludes to (e.g., kidnapping people and essentially presenting them with no choice as to their fates) makes Shangri-la a less than ideal spot for most of us: narrow, limiting, even undemocratic, and certainly willing to bend the rules for its own ends. I'm not sure that elevates Father Peril's society to any nobler a level than the rest of the world.

But at least the original movie is of this world of the 30s. The story fits the kind of world that existed then and reflects many of the attitudes, fears and aspirations felt by millions of the time. It's flawed, but you can watch it on its own terms. One reason the remake doesn't work at all is that by the 1970s the bases for believing in the same things in the book and first film no longer really existed. (Apart from the fact that cinematically it's handled very poorly.) What worked in the 1930s just doesn't translate anymore. (I also made a point on that other thread about how technological advances had made the possibility of an undiscovered paradise in the Himalayas untenable, even in the 70s, certainly today.) At most, the remake should have taken place in the 30s. I'm not sure that would have improved it much, but it might have helped a little.

But I'm glad to read that the musical versions ("variations" might be a better term) of A Christmas Carol/Scrooge and Good-bye, Mister Chips make you shudder. Do go back -- this sounds like a less-palatable alternative to capital punishment here in the States -- and look at the 1973 Lost Horizon, and see if it too doesn't make you shudder, to the point of triggering an avalanche. I find the musicals you mentioned pretty unwatchable but they were classics compared to this squealing, gooey, artificial travesty, simply awful in every respect. Some properties simply don't lend themselves to being revamped as a musical.

Do you think poor James Hilton is spinning in his grave, with at least two of his great novels, made into two excellent films in the 1930s, debased by being ineptly musicalized thirty years later? How about a musical of The Citadel? "Oh, Doctor!" As they say in literary circles, yuck.

reply

Well, I do find it interesting that you think it more understandable that someone dislikes the remake than likes the original. I can't understand that understanding!

Hi hobnob,
I didn't say I agree with her, though! I simply find it conceivable that someone could have the response she has.

The rest of your post really made me think, so thanks for that, and I even had a chuckle or two in a few spots. I imagine that the people who can appreciate Capra's version of the story are those who can, to some degree, put themselves in the headspace of the 1930s. I think the remake, for all its shortcomings, did at least try to make itself relevant and accessible to the audiences of its particular time. That it was unable to do that and still entertain (in both senses of the word) certainly wasn't Hilton's shortcoming, so I imagine yes, it may well have given him a twist.


You might very well think that. I couldn't possibly comment.

reply

Hi puirt-a-beul,

Thank you for your kind remarks. A good point about being able to put oneself in the head space of the 1930s. That's long before my time, but I've always seemed to have some affinity for doing just that with older periods, though I can't know how accurate I may be. But being a long-time student of history helps I think. (That, and being a fan of older films.) So I think I understand, and can even imagine living in, earlier eras reasonably well.

Even so, I think when most people watch an older film they subconciously readjust their expectations and attitudes and judge the movie by something closer to its own terms than to a modern movie. Many don't, of course, the kind of people who simply diss anything that hasn't been made in the last five years and who if they run across a black & white picture act as if they were being confronted by something carrying the plague. I actually knew someone who liked the 1973 LH, not in contrast to the original, which she'd never seen, but simply because her firsthand knowledge and experience didn't stretch much further back than the 1970s. It wasn't so much rejecting the past as being unconcerned with it, blanking it out without thinking about it. So anything -- books, movies, music, history -- that helps broaden one's outlook and make one aware of other ways of thinking, and how we evloved to where we are today, is I think a good thing.

In this sense, perhaps the 1937 Lost Horizon serves a much more important, and entertaining, purpose than the remake could...though I suppose the musical can serve as a sort of "anti-point" of how history can go awry!

May I ask, do you live in Canada? I noticed your spelling of the word "colour" earlier, and your French nom-de-IMDb. I'm just north of New York City. But I suspect both of us are considerably removed from anything resembling Shangri-la...which, judging from the thrust of our discussions, might not be a bad thing! See you later.

reply

G'day hobnob,
(Does that give you a hint of my nationality? )

My username isn't French, by the way, it's Scottish Gaelic. (GĂ idhlig, as distinct from Gaeilge, the Irish variant.) That's the language of my family, who originally came from the island of South Uist (Uidhist a Deas) in the Outer Hebrides; I teach Gaelic privately and occasionally at university, and perform it as a traditional singer.

My username is a phrase that literally means "mouth music"; it's a whole genre of songs in Gaelic, characterised by rapid tongue-twisting lyrics, that provide complex dance rhythms without musical accompaniment. They're a lot of fun, though bloody tough to get the hang of singing.

So which part of NY state are you living in? I've been there a few times -- my brother used to live in the upper East side of the city, and had his wedding up in Poughkeepsie -- but I'm not much of a city boy myself. I much prefer what we call "the bush".


You might very well think that. I couldn't possibly comment.

reply

Yeah, well, so much for the quality of my intellectual guesswork...mate!

Your c.v. sounds much more versatile and interesting than that of most of us around here, I must credit you. What little I've learned of any of the Celtic tongues puts me in even greater awe of anyone who's mastered one. I recently read two stories on the BBC web about the supposed (or perhaps "proposed" might be the more apt term) death of Manx and Cornish, on the part of a UN language commission, which struck a highly indignant chord amongst the speakers of those two languages, especially the ones who teach them to packed classes. I have a friend who was educated in Ireland from childhood in the late 40s into the 50s and still speaks or understands a fair amount of Irish Gaelic (in addition to her native German, plus English and French). But even she sometimes throws up her hands at trying to pull up some phrase or meaning!

My neighbor is Australian, I believe from NSW, but not sure where. I'd love to visit that great country some time. Which state are you in, and do you in fact live in or readily accessible to the bush? (You'll understand the difficulty many of us have, after all that ensued these past eight years, in uttering the term "bush".)

Actually, I'm not far from Poughkeepsie -- about 40 miles south, just north of the NYC border, in a town called Bronxville. You probably passed near it on your way to your brother's wedding. (Fame, like wedding limos, is fleeting.) Where did he live on the upper east side? Most of my friends live in Manhattan, I was born there, but you couldn't pay me to live in the city. A fortunate attitude, that, as no one's going to undertake to do so either. I prefer deserts (I had a place in Arizona and still have family there) or the shore. I feel my real home is my summer place along the south shore of Long Island, at least until the sea level rises sufficiently to render that option obsolete.

My girlfriend is English (lives there, which makes the relationship interesting), and has been all over the British Isles. I don't think she knows much Scots Gaelic (a little Welsh, but that's the wrong lingustic branch), but I'll have to ask her if she's ever been to your ancestral heath in the Hebrides. I do have an affinity for remote places, which is probably why I enjoy the concept, if not all the Shangrilavian particulars, of Lost Horizon.

I had to drag this discussion back on topic some way.

Okay, I'll close with a non-LH query...how come the Australian politcal party spells its name "Labor" -- at least, according to The Economist. Now, I was at least 10% on track by noting your spelling of "colour", but the American spelling, if you will, of that party's name has always baffled me. Do you know the reason?

Of course, this is important because our next subject will be the status of manual labor in Shangri-la. Phew! Saved by a link to the topic.

Let's plan on a centennial celebration of that great "Strine", Errol Flynn, born in Tasmania 100 years ago this June -- June 20, 1909. Cusp of winter, or cusp of summer. He needs remembering...in the most appropriate manner possible, of course.
Yes, that.

You know, he might have made a good Robert Conway. Seriously. Think about it.

reply

Hiya mate,
Well, you sound more informed about my country than most people are. (It's OK, that's not a criticism of anyone -- it's not like we're a major player in the world.) I live in New South Wales too -- at the moment, in the outer western suburbs of Sydney, which is in the south-east corner of the country, though I grew up in the mountains and still consider them my real home. Fortunately, nowhere in Australia is particularly far from wilderness -- even our bigger cities have what are termed "green belts", that are generally declared national parks and are protected from urbanisation.

I well understand the impulse to shy away from the term "bush", given the last eight years of your country's history. Must have been very difficult for people who felt his policies were damaging your country -- its standing in the world, as well as its economy and social fabric. It's just a subjective perception, but it seems to me that the US is much more bitter, dogmatic and polarised in its thinking now than it was eight years ago, but whether Bush had anything to do with that or was simply in the hot seat at the same time as that trend occurred, I really can't say. How can we know for sure what the US might have been like in 2009 if Al Gore had actually been acknowledged the winner in the year 2000? Maybe Obama would never have risen to prominence or been elected -- who knows?

We've had a similar situation here -- well, similar in some ways. Our Prime Minister for the last 12 years, a conservative, left office with the country's budget in significant surplus, whereas your previous President seems to have gone a long way towards bankrupting your country; but there are similarities. Like yours, our leader's policies relied on the politics of division and derision, and caused significant damage to the country's social fabric. Laws forced through by way of Howard's majority in both houses of parliament included some grossly repressive measures (as in the US' "Patriot Act"), excused in the name of the so-called "War on Terror", that are nothing short of totalitarian and severely impede some fairly basic civil rights. Under Howard, medical and dental care have become almost inaccessible for a significant proportion of the population, and tertiary education -- which has been largely government funded in this country for the last 40 years, in recognition that it shouldn't be a privilege of fortunate birth and that the money spent was an investment in the future well-being of our society as a whole -- has been reframed as a product for purchase (their actual words), and has escalated in cost out of most people's reach, so that it has returned to being really only an option for the rich. Most Americans get freaked if you trot out the word "socialist", but until Howard we had a lot of the good qualities of that approach to life going for us. But not any more.

A bit sad, for the country that had the first Labo(u)r government anywhere in the world! Oh, and to answer your question, when that party was founded, no-one was certain how best to spell its name. For a while it appeared under both spellings, but early in the 20th century there was concerted activism here by labour union organisers from the US; and as the story goes, by the time they'd left, the US spelling of the name had pretty well stuck, and the party decided not to change it. It was apparently felt that the atypical spelling distinguished the party's name from the general concept, and gave it a separate identity. And that's how it remained.

As for the Gaelic ... well, even apart from my personal connection with it, I really like it as a language. It really lends itself to poetic expression, and I personally find it fairly easy to learn -- its grammatical structures are pretty logical and straightforward, and actually have a lot in common with the slightly older styles of sentence construction in English. There's been a lot of cross-pollination through the two languages' development. It's a challenge for many people at first because it uses most of the same letters as in the English language, though the sounds they represent often don't compare at all; but for most people (myself included!) the real stumbling-block is that the language is highly colloquial, and phrases ideas in ways that don't appear to make sense to an English-speaker -- you just have to take them on faith and learn them parrot-fashion, and after a while they sort of have their own internal logic. After a while they *seem* to make sense, but much of it I would have trouble explaining in English words.

(I guess that's true of many languages, and I've learned a few now -- but Gaelic seems to be the most colloquial and opaque. Maybe there's something to be said for cellular racial memory, because it does seem to make sense, but not in a left-brain analytical sense. I wonder if there's such a thing as left-brain languages and right-brain languages?)

OK, back to LH -- yes, I think Errol would have made an admirable Robert Conway, and I think it's a genius suggestion. Onya, mate!! Much as I like Coleman as an actor, he often does seem a bit prim to me, a bit too thin-blooded. It probably suits the earnest tone of Capra's movie, but I do think a bit of Flynn's lust for life and wicked humour wouldn't have gone astray.

Oof. I seem to have written a dissertation!! Sorry about that ...

So how did you end up with a girlfriend who lives on the other side of the Atlantic?


You might very well think that. I couldn't possibly comment.

reply

G'devenin'! (Hmmm...doesn't quite work, does it?)

Well, my evening, your morning. My March 11, your March 12. My 2009, your -- hey, you guys in 2010 yet? I saw that movie too.

Well, my knowledge (such as it is) about Australia stems from my having read, at age 10, On the Beach. I've always had an affinity for geography-history-politics, so I picked up a lot about the country (at least as it was when Shute wrote about it in 1957; I read it several years later) from that book. Still re-read it every so often. Actually, I know a couple who lives somewhere in the Sydney suburbs, the son of an old (now deceased) friend of mine; I'd have to check on the precise town. And the daughter of my old accountant married an Aussie and they live somewhere in mid-northern Victoria. I haven't been able to learn whether they were affected (or badly affected) by those terrible fires, though I'm sure they must have had some problems. Another couple I know lived in Australia (also Singapore) for several years when his company posted him abroad. He told me they almost decided to retire there but in the end opted to come home to be near their families. Interestingly, their son married an Australian girl and lives I believe in Canberra. The other year I asked his father where his son worked, and he replied, "For something called the 'C.S.I.R.O.' -- and don't ask me what that stands for." I came right back at him: "Commonwealth Scientific and Industrial Research Organisation." Not for nothing did I read On the Beach at 10!

However, given my other predilection, for movies, I wouldn't mind joining the local land rush and buying a house in Broome, just to be near the historic landmark old open-air cinema that was built in the 30s. Which I hope is still there!

Well, now you've got Kevin Rudd, and we have Obama, so I trust a new spirit will span the Pacific to our mutual benefit. I saw some of that spiel then-PM Howard made against Obama during the primary campaign, which was a pretty stupid thing for him to do regarding the election of an ally's leader. I liked Rudd's riposte in the House (someone alerted me to it on YouTube, which I go to only when tipped to something interesting). So far here the Republicans can basically only say No to things, have no ideas other than tax cuts (that's right, we can tax cut our way out of the recession), and a few do indeed yell "socialism" at Obama or some of his actions. Hey, I love this country, wouldn't live anywhere else (except maybe Broome), but a lot of it is nuts/crackers. Creationists, religious fringe groups, lunatic right-wingers (and some nutty left-wingers, to be fair)...frankly I sometimes wonder how we survived. Like a berserk Lost Horizon. We might after all have been better off had we been used as a penal dumping ground by the Mother Country. Instead they dumped Puritans on us. The 'Mothers' Country?

I don't know that free, or low-cost, public education is socialist...America pioneered the concept of free primary education in the 19th century (which back then is of course as far as most people would go). I can understand paying something for the highest levels of education, but making financial assistance and low-cost education virtually unavailable, as has happened in many places here, is utterly counter-productive. As you say, it's trading long-term benefit for short-term "savings". Some savings.

When I read your discourse on learning Gaelic I was thinking, well, sounds similar to problems encountered with any new language...but then you made that point as well. I speak Spanish, used to speak Russian but have been losing much of it these past couple of decades, and a tiny, mini, itty-bitty smattering of a couple of other tongues, but always the same problem with idiomatic translation. For example, how would I say "tiny, mini, itty-bitty smattering" in all those languages? Beats me. How to say that beats me too.

But to answer your question...yes, I'm quite sure things would be very different, for the US and the world, had Gore won in 2000 (as many of us believe he did). I'm not sure the economic situation would be vastly different, unfortunately, since many Democrats acceded to the idiotic deregulatory craze, but I can't imagine we'd have had as many people who got away with the destructive business and financial practices they did under the complacent and complicit eye of Bush. Not to mention we wouldn't be involved in Iraq, with most of the attendant problems that have sprung from that. On the other hand, given the normal partisan swings, I'm equally sure we'd still have a destructive Republican Congress -- many of the people now in office would never have won because there would have been an anti-Democratic climate in 2006 and 2008 -- and there'd certainly be no President Obama; rather, some Republican, maybe McCain, would be in the Oval Office. With... well, a few days ago the comedian Bill Maher remembered that Ronald Reagan used to joke that the nine most frightening words in English were, "I'm from the government and I'm here to help," but according to Maher that only lasted until we heard "I'm Sarah Palin, now show me the launch codes."

Oh, how did I end up with a transatlantic girlfriend? Actually, she's someone I met in 1982 (!), and we've been in touch ever since, but reunited about a year or so ago. I'm something of an expert on long-distance romances (cross-country, trans-ocean, probably interplanetary if I live long enough), so this is par for the course for me. When I was involved with someone only 65 miles from me that was progress!

Well, as to our subject matter, LH (I thought the addition of color was a nice touch).... Thank you for your encouraging words about casting Errol Flynn! Have to have a word with Harry Cohn about that. A tad young, perhaps, but much more dynamic, lusty as you aptly said, more fun than Ronald Colman...about whom I say nothing negative, since he was a gentleman and fine actor. But sort of appalling to realize that he died before any of the other major cast members (even H.B. Warner, who outlived him by eight months in 1958), and was older than Thomas Mitchell. An odd thing about Jane Wyatt's character in the film is that she tells Conway she's 30, when in fact the actress was herself only 27 the year the film was released. Jane was a little too sedate for that role, too, I've always thought. My Flynn idea was spur-of-the-momernt but I always felt someone other than JW (whom I also liked) might have suited the role of Sandra better. But who? I'm turning some names over in my mind, but you take a stab first. Just don't say Liv Ullmann.

Speaking of which, I read the new poster's entry below; he seems quite unfathomably enamored of the remake. Have to have a word with him about that, wither I am bound now. It's fantastic speaking with you, hope to go on doing so, here, elsewhere or (if we get too far off-topic) via PMs. Until later, my friend....

reply

G'day hobnob,
Oww, how did time go past so quickly?!

I was going to post a reply, left it a couple of days, and here it is a couple of months later. Hmmm ...

I missed Errol's birthday, too. Bugger.

So, what's up?



You might very well think that. I couldn't possibly comment.

reply

Yes, hello again, p-a-b!

You missed Errol's centennial???!!! June 20. One hundred years comes only once in a lifetime. Well, remember to mark the sad 50th anniversary of his death this October 20.

I see the poster who added on just after your latest post at least agrees re the merits of '73 LH. As you can see, I had a long go with cliffcarson-1 about said subject and we ultimately (and predicatbly) had to agree to disagree.

What gets me is that we've spent so much time about the 1973 film on the site for the 1937 film. (Or is this a case of mass dyslexia?) I saw a new thread happily advertising a screening of the 1973 film on this site. (I expect he also posted on that film's site as well.)

Anyway, maybe we should start on another thread hereabouts, or else look up an Errol Flynn film that needs sane investigation and swap stories there. Nominations? (I'll be away for a week so take your time.)

Glad to see you back, my friend.

reply

The 1973 version of "LOST HORIZON" is an absolute turkey, quite possibly the worst major studio movie ever made. Anyone who prefers the 1973 version has some serious taste issues. Burn every copy save one, that to be used as a painful lesson of now NOT to make a musical!!!

reply

The 1973 musical version of LOST HORIZON Is the most wonderful endearing and campy musical films of ALL TIME. The 1973 musical remake of the James Hilton novel about mythical SHANGRI-LA! is a real special gem. Music by BURT BACHARACH and lyrics by HAL DAVID. A strange mixture of straight drama, adventure and musical sequences. It has the distinction of being the ONLY anti war musical fantasy ever filmed.

This film was a critical and financial disappointment in the United States, but made alot of money overseas. Only in America did it fail. Highly different and unique in it's approach as a film musical, it deserves far better credit than it's given. As a story, LOST HORIZON is an incredible adventure and both the 1937 Frank Capra fiim and this 1973 musical are faithful adaptations of the James Hilton novel. What I like about the 1973 version is the freedom in which the musical numbers are presented. The film has a prestigious cast and a gifted director and cinematographer. This is a BURT BACHARACH Shangri-La and it's a wonderful place. Songs like THE WORLD IS A CIRCLE, SHARE THE JOY and LIVING TOGETHER, GROWING TOGETHER evoke a happiness that Hilton wrote about in his novel. Why shouldn't Shangri-La be a slightly goofy place? The two love songs, I MIGHT FRIGHTEN HER AWAY and the deleted I COME TO YOU are the sensitive spots in the picture. There's a peacefulness and soft spoken quality in both these songs that is very much keeping with the philosophy of the story. Moreover, THE THINGS I WILL NOT MISS is a good duet with a strong melody. It's a nice exchange of different types of perspective and who can fault with Olivia Hussey and Sally Kellerman stomping, singing and dancing on tables? They're a wonderful team and the number is well staged.

I always found it interesting in this story how the High Lama kidnaps someone from the outside world to take his place in Shangri-La. The character of the High Lama is a gentle soul but somewhat of a radical in his view of mankind as a whole. He has no hope for the world outside of Shangri-La. If this film were to be remade today, it would be interesting to see more emphasis put on the leading character, RICHARD ONWAY'S conflict with what he left behind in the outside world as opposed to what he's found in Shangri-La. Flash backs of his life and his relationships before coming to Shangri-La would be an interesting and thought provoking comparison. This would, I imagine. pose a great deal of questions. The deleted song in the '73 version, IF I COULD GO BACK hinted at this, but was not realized due to Peter Finch's awkward interpretation of the song. As beautiful as this song and Liv Ullmanns follow up song were, it was wise on Columbia's part to cut them out of the picture. The songs, as filmed, slowed the story down, especially after the elongated High Lama scene.

Of course, for the film to be believable, the character of RICHARD CONWAY must be presented as suffering amnesia at the end, like he was in the book. Neither film versions of LOST HORIZON were faithful to the novel in this regard. Did Conway find Shangri-La or was it imagined? Did they all die in the plane crash? Every man has his own idea of what his Shangri-La would be. The conflict with Conway wanting to believe in Shangri-La and returning to his old life in the outside world is powerful. I like the melancholy on the faces of Kellerman, Kennedy and Van as they watch their friends leave the mystical valley. Interesting how Conway doesn't want to leave paradise, but is being pressured out by his brother. Both versions of LOST HORIZON work in different ways, but both are successful in probing James Hiltons ideas of a hidden valley where money has no value and moderation is the rule.

LOST HORIZON has a much stronger story than most musicals. It attempts to answer basic questions of life and one can hardly fault it for not succeeding. One has to remember that LOST HORIZON in 1973 was post CABARET. It was no longer fashionable for characters to break out in song in a musical, much less to be dubbed by other singers. LOST HORIZON was an easy target for jaded critics. The expectations for it were high, almost unreasonable. There were two targets to be hit, the producer, ROSS HUNTER and BACHARACH/DAVID and the critics were out to get both of them. Ross Hunter had enjoyed decades of financial success as a producer and LOST HORIZON was his follow up film to his 1970 blockbuster AIRPORT That film was Universals biggest moneymaker up to that time and the success of that picture triggered a decade of disaster films. For years AIRPORT was the most watched film ever to be shown on television. It was nominated for 11 Academy Awards including Best Picture. At the time, Burt Bacharach and Hal David were the most successful songwriters in the country. The unabashed sentimentality of LOST HORIZON hardly had a chance in the wake of the breakdown of censorship in films like EASY RIDER, MIDNIGHT COWBOY and THE GODFATHER. Sex and violence was a new frontier in the late 60's and early 70's Audiences were flocking to films with content that they were not use to seeing on the screen. Lavish musicals were no longer well received no matter how well they were made. Today LOST HORIZON can be enjoyed and appreciated on several levels. It's the ultimate escapist film with a strong story, wonderful music, an expensive budget and some quirky humor. It's unconventional in the sense that the music is not introduced until 45 minutes into the film. It changes course mid way when the mystical valley is introduced and why not? LOST HORIZON '73 is a heavenly film that deserves rediscovering. A lost and legendary treasure deserving far better than it's reputation.

reply

Well, I have to commend you on a thorough and all-encompassing dissertation on the supposed merits of the 1973 version of Lost Horizon. I don't happen to agree with any of your observations or opinions about this movie, which if you've read our previous posts you'll already know. Still, I think you offered an in-depth and learned appreciation of the film, which, in its own defense, it deserves.

To be frank, it might have been more persuasive had you offered some criticism of the film, by which I mean not slamming it just for the sake of being nasty, but honest comments about things in it that don't work. Given the generally negative reception the film received, not all criticisms of it can be without some merit. It strains my credulity to consider this musical a "lost and legendary treasure" (yes, I get the quote, though I don't think it's anything of the kind), but even lost and legendary treasures have some flaws. I can't think of a single film, whether among my personal favorites or ones generally held in the highest esteem, that doesn't have some negatives about it.

Anyway, the movie isn't "lost" at all. It's still run on cable, even though no DVD has turned up yet.

LH does have a stronger story than most musicals, but of course Lost Horizon isn't a musical; it was a melodrama/fantasy that was turned into a musical, which has been done with "straight" properties quite often, even commonly. I do think you have a point about its reception being especially bad given the era in which it came out, which was not predisposed to like musicals of its sort; even so, in the 36 years since, there has been no critical reappraisal upward of this film, which is extremely significant. Many films get reassessed (up or down) after the passage of many years; while the general opinion on many others remains essentially unchanged. This last is decidedly the case with Lost Horizon (1973). Even abroad, where it did as you say fare much better at the box office than in the US, most critical reaction was negative. And, of course, box office performance has nothing whatsoever to do with a film's quality. If it did, Watchmen or some similar flick would be deemed an artistic masterpiece, while Citizen Kane would be considered a dreadful piece of junk.

Obviously we (and others on both sides of this divide) come from two very different and irreconcilable places on this movie, you thinking it pretty flawlessly wonderful in all respects, I thinking it an epitome of a film that wasted a lot of talent amid poorly written music, tuneless songs, weak direction and miscast actors. Clearly neither of us is going to change the other's mind. The fact that so many talented people are involved in a film (any film) does not automatically translate into the resultant product being a good film. Good songwriters can come up with bad songs; good actors can act badly; good directors direct poorly; and so on -- as I'm sure you'll agree, in principle. I happen to think the musical remake of Lost Horizon falls squarely and obviously into that catgegory; you of course completely disagree. But as I said up top, I respect your defense of this film; you certainly examined most of its facets and provided much useful information about it. My only criticism (as opposed to disagreement) is, as I said, that you seem thoroughly uncritical of it in even a minor fashion; nothing is that perfect. But that aside, and while I completely disagree with your assessment of this film, your post was informative and put forth points worth considering.

reply

Interesting comments. I do have criticisms of the 1973 version, but then again, I have criticisms of the 1937 one as well. Interesting how the same exact numbers exist in each year the films were released.

I think the romance is the '37 version is much stronger than the '73 musical. In fact, LH '37 is probably one, if not the most romantic picture ever made. The chemistry between Wyatt and Colman is tough to live up to in any film, it's THAT good. The moment when Colmann runs after Wyatt and catches up to her in the garden is, in my opinion, the greatest screen kiss in motion picture history. Movies don't get more romantic than that. LOST HORIZON '73 had a beautiful romantic scene between Finch and Ullmann that was cut. Not on the same par by any means as the Capra lovers, but nice non the less.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ZmTHd-h9E4

I prefer the vision of Shangri-La in the musical version with it's detailed balconies and lush greenery. Shangri-La in LH'37 is nice, but looks too much like a cold museum built by Frank Lloyd Wright, although the courtyard essentially is more beautiful than the one in the musical. I think the entrance into Shangri-La with Bacharach's swelling instrumentals is FAR more beautiful and inviting than the Frank Capra version. HOWEVER, Ronald Colman departing Shangri-la quivers with feeling and drama in the way that the '73 version didn't come close. That wonderful tortured close up of Colman struggling with his conscience while looking down into the valley with Dimitri Tiomkin's score is BRILLIANT.

The himalaya climb up the mountain to Shangri-la is certainly more ominous and exciting in the Capra version than it is in the musical, which might have utilized some split screen shots of porters alongside steep ledges with thousands of feet below them to achieve a more thrilling effect. I believe these shots in the Capra version were done with rear screen.

The character that Sally Kellerman portrays is more explored in LH'73 than the one that Isabel Jewell plays in the LH'37 This is an important character. I like the transformation that happens to this character in the story. Jewell certainly goes through the biggest physical transformation than does Kellerman, which is more dramatic and thus explains the wonders of Shangri-La better. In LH'73, you have James Shigeta counseling to Sally Kellerman. WHY on earth did they cut the scene where Wyatt consoles Isabel Jewell's character? That was an important scene that said so much about the sensibilities among people in Shangri-La and the women in the scene. But then, I think cutting the 'I COME TO YOU' sequence in LH'73 was a crime. It was the only moment when the lovers kissed.

I also prefer the balcony scene in the Capra version of the brothers discussing Shangri-la after they've just arrived. Something about that scene says "HOME". It's beautifully directed.

I cannot deny that Ronald Colman is great in LH'37. I like Peter Finch but you can't even compare the two, that's how great Colman is in that role.

As far as LH'73 being "rediscovered" by critics, etc, allow me to say this. The musical version will never be deemed a "great film" in the traditional sense, but I'm confident it will one day be recognized as a wonderfully entertaining and endearing one. A great many factors contribute to the delaying of this. First of all, the film has never been released on VHS or DVD. As I said before, it's an anti war musical fantasy that is a remake. This in itself has made it an easy target. Musical's are easy targets to begin with, let alone ones that are remakes of prior classics. As a film musical, it breaks tradition with not establishing itself as a musical until 45 minutes into the picture. It also breaks tradition with having a modern score set to a somewhat old fashioned tale. Today, people have access to reviews of films by way of computer that they never did before. Back in the 70's and 80's people didn't run to a computer after seeing a film to evaluate what critics said or what other people thought about it the way they do today. One would see a film on television or revived in a theatre and form a feeling based on that. They weren't digging up old reviews to movies as a reference to how they should think and view an old movie now.

While I think a re-imagined version of LOST HORIZON would make a great film, I firmly believe there will never be another musical version of this story. This is it. For better or for worse. Ross Hunter might have produced this film but when it is all said and done LOST HORIZON '73 is a Burt Bacharach Shangri-la. If you don't like Bacharach's music, you probably won't like LH'73, but to those of us that love this story, the musical version is in many ways more satisfying than the Frank Capra one.

Personally, I like both films for different reasons, but then I have a bias. This is one of my favorite stories of all time. I'd love to remake it, not as a musical but as a re-imagined version of both films and more.

reply

Also interesting comments. I'm glad to know you also like the 1937 version (the OP here said she was "bored stiff" by it while rhapsodizing about the '73). It seems most of your criticisms about the musical are of a "the scene wasn't as good as the '37" kind -- not that anything about the 1973 was really bad, only that some things were done better in the original. But while I like the '37 film I certainly have many criticisms of it, too, many of those mentioned in previous posts above.

I have to ask you -- which scene is it you're talking about in the '37, where Jane Wyatt consoles Isabel Jewell? I have no recollection of that at all.

LH 1937 is a romantic film, though I wouldn't call it the most romantic ever. Leaving the music aside, one of the reasons I think the 1973 movie isn't too good is that the kind of tale it tells just doesn't fit the modern world. A few posts above I said that Lost Horizon -- the novel, and the first film -- were very much a part of their era, the 1930s, and that this just doesn't translate well into the 1970s, let alone the 2000s. I think here as with most films people make a subconcious mental adjustment and accept a movie on its own terms (its era, how it was made, etc.), which allows us in this case to accept (whether one likes it or not) the 1937 film. Such an adjustment is much harder to do for the 1970s, and even more impossible today. That's the main reason why I don't think we'll ever see another version of this book except, maybe, as one re-creating its era, the 1930s. And almost certainly we'll never see another musical, because the original one was such a flop and poorly received, and because the material really doesn't easily lend itself to being a musical.

You've cited the fact that there are no musical numbers until 45 minutes into the film, and having a modern score for a basically period piece, as reasons why the 1973 film failed. I don't agree that the first aspect was a problem at all -- many people feel the best part of the film was the song-less opening -- and while I tend to agree with your second point, it also points up my contention that updating the plot to 1973 was one of the biggest problems with the film. Had 1973 kept the plot in the 30s it might have fared a little better, though I doubt it would have altered the generally negative reviews of the film.

If you want a capsulized idea of why I think the 1937 is basically so good, and the musical basically so bad, I say: compare the endings, of Conway finding Shangri-la. Nothing sets the mood better than the look and feel of the scene, complemented by its music, in Capra's vision. The end of the '73 looks like an Alpine travelogue, with its zoom-out and dreadful song "There's a Lost Horizon" or however it goes. No awe, no mystery, no triumph, no elation, just a flat scene with terrible, nearly idiotic, pop music.

The other thing that's a major problem with '73 is that it's in color. The b&w of the original was much better suited to its sense of unreality and remoteness -- did anything ever look as lost and forbidding as those scenes of dark gray clouds, pushed along by howling winds amidst snowswept, rocky peaks, when Conway looks out from the entrance to Shangri-la? Color suits many things but I think is inimical to the mood of this story. The remove, if you will, that b&w imparts to the 1937 film makes Shangri-la really seem like the remote, virtually inaccessible locale it has to be. Color makes it seem unremarkable, almost everyday. Obviously, it's more "real", but that's precisely what this story can't afford to be. By 1973 (let alone today) color was almost a requirement, so doing it in b&w wasn't feasible, but it still is a drawback. Add to this the fact that it was a musical, and art form that sort of demands color, and you have the inevitable introduction of an element that harms the necessary mood of the story.

I do think the settings of 1937 are infinitely superior, more flavorful if you will, more real -- or unreal -- it's hard to put into words -- than anything in the musical. But again, part of this may be due to the difference b&w makes vs. color.

I am a Dimitri Tiomkin fan -- I like his scores a lot, and while I don't claim he was the best composer in Hollywood in the 30s-40s-50s-60s, he was among the best and I always found his scores enjoyable. Many people believe LH is his best score. I'm glad you seem to basically like his music. I wish I could return the compliment and say there was something about the musical's songs (or basic score) that I liked, but there just isn't. To me, it ranges from weak and insipid to just flat and uninteresting. And I happen to be a Burt Bachrach fan, so that's not the problem. But as I said last time, everybody, no matter how talented, can fail at something -- good writers can write something bad, directors direct badly, actors act badly, blah, blah, blah, and that includes music writers. I don't agree with you that one day this movie will be reassessed as an "entertaining and endearing one". But, these are just your and my opinions, so we'll see.

Interestingly, though, I don't think Peter Finch was so bad in this film. Sure, Colman was better, but Finch was okay -- better, I thought, than any of the others. I mean, Bobby Van? C'mon! Yeah, he had his talents, but was far too lightweight for this. Most of the rest were in my opinion badly miscast in the 1973 film, which is certainly not a reflection of their general talent. But again, good actors can do poorly in roles for which they are not really suited.

I'll close by agreeing with you that the 1973 version deserves to be released on DVD. Of course, I believe that about every film, but considering that this one has never, as you pointed out, been released on any form of home video, it should be put out sometime. Maybe in a dual-disc set with the 1937 film. I might buy such a set, just to look at the musical again, in its proper widescreen format, uncut and uninterrupted.

reply

The scene with Jane Wyatt consoling Isabel Jewell is part of the extra material found on the DVD. A scene never in the original but supplied on the DVD as an audio with stills.

The "adjustment" you're talking about with the original being planted in the 30's as opposed to the musical being set in the 70's is right on and a major reason why the critics were so hard on it. That adjustment was not a stretch for this eleven year old however. The story of Shangri-La is universal and secretly it appeals to everyone whether they want to admit it or not. I absolutely think that if this is ever remade it should be set in the 30's and not updated. However, it would be more tricky to pull off than one thinks. Look at the recent remake of KING KONG with Jack Black. That film kept it's origins rooted in the 30's and yet it was devoid of any real feeling. The 73' remake was an honest attempt at trying to capture the spirit of Hilton's novel. Keeping the 1973 film rooted in the 1930's might have worked as a musical with a score by Lerner and Loewe or perhaps Leslie Bricusse, but not Burt Bacharach. As it is, the 1973 version becomes a classic for this reason alone. It is the only film musical with an ORIGINAL Burt Bacharach/Hal David score and that alone makes it quirky and different.

I'd like to know, what would you consider a more romantic film than the original LOST HORIZON??

I disagree with you about the ending to LH'37 as opposed to the one in the musical. Colman rediscovering Shangri-la at the end is played out so corny with that silly expression on his face. The ending in the musical is left as an enigma, something supposed as opposed to not. I like the lyrics to the song LOST HORIZON. "Many miles from yesterday before you reach tomorrow where the time is always just today, there's a lost horizon waiting to be found". It comes closer to the sentiment in the novel where as Conway's notion of Shangri-la could have been imagined and a result of amnesia due to the plane crash where he was the only known survivor. It should be left to the viewer to decide.

A major problem with the remake is it's in COLOR?? What are you SAYING? The major problem with the original is IT IS in black and white. It's also a major reason why LH'37 is not very well known today. As a matter of fact, Capra had originally planned to film it in color. The reason why he didn't was because all the stock footage that he used for the treks to and from Shangri-La were in black and white. The dark and foreboding scenes you're describing could have been equally effective, if not more in different shades of color. Paradise should be in color.

Pardon me, but I think the supporting players in LH'73 were far better than LH'37. Say what you want about Bobby Van, he was much easier to take than the fey and irritating Edward Everett Horton was in the Capra film. I also prefer John Gielgud's Chang and George Kennedy to Thomas Mitchell. I also love Liv Ullmann, although I think that Jane Wyatt's portrayal has more of that inner happiness quality that someone raised in Shangri-La would possess.

reply

One thing we absolutely agree on is that trying to make a film set in another era -- particularly if that era has already been put on film in its own time -- is difficult if not impossible. It requires artists with a real sense of what that time was really about, not just the outward trappings. How often do we see movies set in the past where things look right but people talk, act, whatever, in "modern" ways? (Titanic 1997 is an excellent example of "phony" period settings where the characters mostly speak as if it were indeed 1997, not 1912. But that's James Cameron's abysmal, inept script.) Speaking of films released in 1973, did you ever see The Way We Were? Its depiction of the late 30s, 40s and early 50s isn't bad, and strangely enough they get the women's hairstyles right, which movies rarely do (they usually have women wearing their hair in quasi-modern ways). But amazingly, they don't do the same with the men's hair, which is worn in a thick-cut, slightly long, 70s style rather than the way men of the era would actually have had their hair cut. Weird.

Your dissection of the 2005 King Kong is exactly right, though I'd go further and say it was on all levels an utter travesty, mainly because it was so badly miscast -- one of the worst casting jobs I've ever seen, and I don't happen to think Peter Jackson is all that good a director or had any real sense of his material for this completely unneeded remake. (One was enough, and even worse!) I agree, anyone who attempted to do a new version of LH set in the 30s would probably fail, as few filmmakers have any historic sense or understanding.

You made a point that I thought of making but didn't, and wish I had, in comparing the musical sytles of Lerner and Loewe to Bachrach's. The main reason I think the musical is so bad is that for a film, or a setting and plot, of this type, you need a sweeping, fully-orchestrated, melodious score and lyrics, precisely of the kind that L&L, or Rodgers and Hammerstein, or Frank Loesser, or Leonard Bernstein or others of that generation and style, routinely created. Look at Camelot, The King and I, Oklahoma!, South Pacific, West Side Story, so many others. Bachrach and David are very talented people but not for that sort of undertaking. They were basically pop songwriters whose compositions are by their nature shallow in terms of music and lyrics. This sort of thing was out of their league and the music is therefore inadequate for its aspirations and for what it needed to be. Obviously you think the music is great and I don't, so we'll never agree on this, but looking back (I'm a little older than you it seems, so I remember the reviews clearly) this is probably the single greatest factor in why the musical failed and was so dismissed by critics and most of the public, and time hasn't improved things.

We couldn't disagree more about the other things you mention. The ending, especially. As I wrote before, for me the contrast between the two sums up the evocative quality of the original vs. the watery insipidness of the newer one. And again, not to belabor it, the song you find so likable and appropriate I find completely idiotic, a pop tune of no depth or substance (like all the songs to varying degrees), and the scene is shot badly. I don't agree that this comes closer to Hilton's original concept, and I doubt Hilton would either.

Color vs. b&w? Well, if you're one of these people who can't stand anything in black & white (but I didn't get the sense you are), then the strengths of b&w as a film medium are lost on you. Now, I didn't take your comments as indicating that. However, since you asked it of me...what are YOU saying?! Why should (or why must) paradise be in color? Color, especially today, is commonplace, unoriginal and unimaginative, exactly as it was used in the '73 film: it conveys absolutely nothing -- it's just there. Blah and boring.

Now, an interesting point that has occurred to me before: for the '37, they could have done a Wizard of Oz-type thing (two years before Oz), and had the outer world in b&w and Shangri-la in color, for contrast. The fact that the Technicolor of the late 30s was much richer than any color today (certainly better than the uninspired use of color in the remake) would have helped this. I could have lived with that, but b&w was absolutely necessary for the feel of the "real-world" portions of the film at least. I know Capra had wanted to use color but aside from the need to match real mountain footage with the action (a problem that wouldn't have mattered had he used b&w for the outside and kept color only for Shangri-la), the cost of color in those days was enormous. There were only about 12 Technicolor cameras in existence (as of 1939: probably fewer in '37), and the film ended up being one of the two or three most expensive ever made up to that time. Columbia was a small studio then and such extensive use of color was really unaffordable. Economics played a big role in using the standard b&w of the time. However, for a film like this, black and white is capable of shadings of mood and atmosphere color can't match. As I said, color is good for many things over b&w, but the reverse is true also. One of the many reasons colorization is such a terrible, incompetent process is that you can't simply slap phony colors on a b&w movie, because it wasn't designed or photographed for color. You lose everything the film is trying to convey. (This apart from the artistic desecration.)

As to the actors, I don't agree at all. Bobby Van was certainly not easier to take than Horton, but the two characters are very different so comparing them isn't really fair. Kennedy is a good actor but Mitchell was one of the best of his time and is infinitely more nuanced and capable, here and in all his films; Kennedy basically plays variations of his same, big lug self, over and over. Gielgud was always good (obviously), but I think one reason I still prefer Jaffe's High Lama is the tone and feel of the original drama vs. the lightness of the musical -- Gielgud's performance is undermined by the inferiority of the musical. Same thing with Sally Kellerman vs. Isabel Jewell; I'm not entirely happy with either and actually prefer Kellerman as an actress in general, but the tone of the first film helps IJ more than the second aids SK. Interestingly, I've never been comfortable with Jane Wyatt in her role; others might have been better, and Liv Ullmann was a better actress and would have been a good choice had she been around to do the 1937 version. Yet again, the overall mood of the film helps Wyatt seem better, while the lack of mood in the second hurts Ullmann.

As to which films I think are more romantic than LH, I'd have to think that one over carefully before giving answers. It's a matter of degree, not kind, anyway. The story is strong enough that I would allow that the remake is a romantic film, though scarcely the "most" romantic film ever made.

To sum up my problems with 1937 vs. 1973, it's like comparing platinum with plastic. The musical is two-dimensional, all gloss but no substance, with little mood or depth and bedeviled by watery, forgettable pop music where substance and style were necessary. The original had many flaws and is far from "perfect", but its mood and style were pretty "perfectly" matched to the tale it told, the acting was better, the b&w both necessary and superior to unimaginative color. But basically, Lost Horizon is a drama, and this sort of thing doesn't readily lend itself to music. It can be done, but it would take people of very different -- not "better", just different -- musical talents than Bachrach and David to pull it off.

We may be exhausting this subject but I'm happy to consider and discuss any points with you. Meanwhile we'll just agree to disagree (mostly: on some things we agree). See you later.

reply

The original LOST HORIZON suffers from having it's original negative destroyed. I don't particularly like replacing "lost" or missing footage with just the audio portion accompanied with still photographs. It takes one "out" of the story. If you can't replace the original scene back into the film, then forget it. Allow the film to play as it is. Especially with sequences that can play on for minutes at a time.

The musical was criticized for having "chintzy" furnishings, but the concept of the remake was to emphasize the meaning of Shangri-La, "live in moderation". In contrast, the Capra version has rich and elegant furnishings. No way, could anyone have gotten those heavy objects up that tiny passage way that lead into the valley. Moreover, when Jewell's character goes into a panic in the plane, no way would she have been able to open the cabin door without everything being sucked out.

I actually found myself watching the first part of the '37 version recently. You have to admit that the plane crash is more realistic in the remake than the one in the Capra version. And truth be told, it's Ronald Colman that holds that film together. Without his presence the film wouldn't be what it is. The other characters aren't enough, even with Thomas Mitchell. One of the things I like best about the remake is that it does have George Kennedy in it. His rough exterior offsets and helps balance out some of the films otherwise more sugary content. The scene where his character "comes clean" to why he was Baskul China and on the run comes across more heartfelt than the speech Mitchell gave.

Again, it's the BACHARACH music that makes this musical unique. It's this reason that I'm confident the film will one day be re-reviewed and endearingly embraced, not as a "great film", but as the quirky silly and wonderful musical that is and dare i say, far more enjoyable than the Capra version. LOST HORIZON is a fantasy. Why shouldn't it be set to music? I like the music and so do alot of other people. The fact that the combination of story and music produces mixed results is what sets it apart from the standard MGM style of the 40's and 50's. Why not stop the story to express emotions in song? There are songs in EVERY film musical that don't necessarily "advance the story". LH'73 was unfairly criticized for having music that didn't advance the story, which is not the case with songs like SHARE THE JOY, I MIGHT FRIGHTEN HER AWAY, THE THINGS I WILL NOT MISS and I COME TO YOU. The reason being that critics felt the songs were out of place with the story and the "then" all too familiar Capra version. As I said before, every mans Shangri-La is different. I think the sweetness and goofiness of the musical captures the happiness that Hilton wrote about.

A couple of years ago American Cinematheque ran a beautiful print of the '73 version. You would have thought you were in a crowd watching THE ROCKY HORROR PICTURE SHOW. The audience laughed, cheered, sang and applauded that movie for different reasons and on different levels. Yes, it was campy, but that's part of it's charm. Every now and then I would look over my shoulder to view the audience and all I saw was a sea of smiling faces grinning ear to ear. It was quite extraordinary. It was then I knew that one day LH'73 would be rediscovered. Michael York showed up and admitted afterwards that he wasn't quite sure how the audience would react to it after all these years. He also said that even to this day he gets letters about that movie.

reply

Hi -- I tend to agree with you about replacing missing film footage with production stills. On the one hand, I do like having the complete soundtrack and to know what was "lost"; on the other, well, they call it a "movie" because it's supposed to move. Now, if you think about it the scenes utilizing stills in LH occur in only three places: Isabel Jewell's coughing scene, talking with H.B. Warner (Chang); bits and pieces of Conway speaking with the High Lama the first time; and the four-minute-long sequence of Mitchell and Horton visiting the girls and getting drunk. The stills inserted in the first two aren't too bad, especially in the Conway-Lama scene, where only intermittent bits are missing and stills culled from elsewhere in that scene are reasonably effective in bridging the gaps. But the prolonged Mitchell-Horton scene is really too long to comfortably fit in as a sequence filled in with stills. But at least if you sort of "compartmentalize" the three "stills sequences" they're not so bad to put up with. But the other side of the coin is, what do they really add to the plot or characters? There's a thread on this subject on this site which I haven't looked at, but in thinking it over I have to say the missing film footage doesn't really add anything important, and certainly nothing crucial, to the film. I could as well have had the film with just the extant film footage, and have the three sequences with missing footage added onto the DVD as extras. I wouldn't want to lose the soundtrack and whatever goes on in its scenes, but there was no real reason to re-incorporate it into the movie itself. Of course, if by some miracle the missing footage should ever turn up, I'd want it restored into the body of the film.

Funny you mention the unreality of having all those bulky and ornate objects (grand pianos, etc.) brought into Shangri-la; I think there's an entry in the "Goofs" section here about that. It is ridiculous, given the terrain, but then the same problem essentially exists in the 1973 film, and in the story as a whole. Suspension of disbelief is required, if possible. But on the other subject, no, Isabel Jewell could in fact have tried to push open the plane door without being sucked out. Aircraft in those days weren't pressurized (one reason she needed the oxygen the pilot tosses back to them and the others were so cold); in reality, the plane could only go so high and given its slower speed (compared to modern planes), lower altitude, and roughly equal interior/exterior pressure, no vacuum would result with the door being opened: she could well have pushed it open and not be sucked out -- along with everyone else. Those factors that today would cause her to be sucked out mostly didn't apply to 1937 aeronautics.

I agree that Colman holds the '37 film together, but then that's the nature of his character; the other actors were equally as capable professionally but weren't the centerpiece of the film. I never thought of this in quite this way, but by those standards I think Peter Finch somewhat fails to hold the 1973 film together in that same, necessary, way. It almost seems as if you might somewhat agree, in that you cite not Finch but George Kennedy as a mainstay of the later film. Don't get me wrong, I like George Kennedy, but I saw nothing special in his performance in '73. He was okay but nothing unusual. Mitchell, in my view, was far better. (Certain of his character traits and life story were copped from actual 1930s financial figures, so the kind of character he played would have meant far more to contemporary audiences than it might to most people today.)

I never said that LH shouldn't be made into a musical; I said it required a specific type of musical talent and style, which Bachrach and David didn't specialize in. Their score, in my opinion (and, apparently, many thousands of others'), is quite simply inadequate -- to understate matters -- to the task. Rodgers and Hammerstein could do the kind of score such a musical needs; so could any of the other successful music and lyrics writers from Broadway of the 40s, 50s and 60s. There are B'way talents who could manage it today. But it is not a project that lends itself to bland, pop-style, "Lite 101" music. The notion that the people who wrote "Raindrops Keep Fallin' On My Head" for Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid were the type of composer and lyricist needed for (let alone capable of) a full-scale musical with complex themes, dramatic material and on a grand scale is simply ridiculous. They certainly had their talents, and I enjoy most of their work; but I argue that their talents did not encompass the right sort of abilities necessary for this kind of project.

But, of course and once again, this gets into the basic area of our disagreement: I don't like the songs and you do, so obviously we'll never have any common opinion in this. I'll never convince you of my viewpoint, and you'll never persuade me to yours, so no matter how much we say, that point will, I fear, always remain the widest gap between our views on the quality of this film. I have other problems with it (as I do with the '37), but the music, which to me is poor, weak, silly and thoroughly unsuited to the themes of the film -- not to mention unmemorable -- scuttles the entire project. If Ross Hunter had simply produced a straight remake things might have been a bit better; or had he hired more suitable songwriters for this kind of undertaking, then again, the movie might have worked. But as it is I find it a poor film overall, and certainly nothing at all remarkable or memorable. I don't think there'll ever be a major critical revision about this film or its contents, but who knows? Either way, my own judgment is pretty set, as yours is. We each might make some minor reassessments about certain aspects, but I doubt either of us will ever make the wholesale shift into liking (on my part) or disliking (on yours) Lost Horizon 1973. With all its flaws and illogic, I'll stick with the original, infinitely more enjoyable, atmospheric, appropriate to its theme, better cast and acted, much better directed, and overall, just plain better.

But as I said at the start, you make some good points and argue your case well.

reply

Perhaps it was because people were long conditioned to accept film musicals with the type of music Rodgers and Hammerstein, Lerner and Lowe, Irving Berlin and others similar to them wrote, rather than the contemporary sound of Bacharach and David. Why shouldn't they write a full scale musical? They did it with PROMISES PROMISES on broadway and that was a success. Moreover, audiences and critics didn't seem to mind their pop score set to the old fashion western setting of BUTCH CASSIDY AND THE SUNDANCE KID? The Academy gave them two Oscars for that.

Bacharach and David had their own style. If you don't like the sound, then you won't like LH'73. But then, the same can be said for any composer and lyricist. I don't know about you, but I am SO tired of the score to OKLAHOMA. With the exception of the song OUT OF MY DREAMS and maybe another song, I simply cannot listen to it. I know it was revolutionary at the time and as a kid I liked the music. Now as an adult the songs and the lyrics grate on my nerves. Talk about "sing songy"?? The orchestrations are beautiful and the music plays better without the words, but the lyrics to the songs make my teeth ache. To be honest, I don't alot of the lyrics in Question me an answer either. I merely put up with that song mainly because of the setting, a few of the smaller kids who are very cute and Bobby Van, who is engaging.

The Capra version would play better without all those stop and start "audio accompanied with production still" scenes. The worse being Horton's interaction with the natives in the valley with the sheep and whatever else is suppose to be going on back there? There's very little dialogue in that scene, just sounds of sheep and navies laughing and yet it goes on and on? So what if they found the audio? If the they were smart they would have realized the scene doesn't work in the picture with productions stills. I suppose it was Horton's "Question me an answer" scene bonding with the Shangri-La people, but the sound and production stills go on way too long. As I said, it takes me out of the story and reminds me of the crumbling negative that is now "lost" forever. It was on nitrate and as we all know nitrate disintegrates.

I like both versions. But when all is said and done the remake does it for me better than the original. It's handsomely and prestigiously directed and photographed. My biggest gripe with the musical is the exit from Shangri-La sequence that didn't come anywhere near the brilliance of the same sequence in the original, which quivers with thought and feeling. As the original stands now in it's dvd "restoration" version, it comes across as too choppy and uneven. Do they care nothing about the flow of the picture?

I would have been happy if the I COME TO YOU sequence would have been left in the remake. That scene provided the same calm tranquility that the scene in the garden with Colman and Wyatt did. So crucial to the feeling of the story.

Shangri-la being found again by Conway at the end of the picture works better in the remake than it does in the original, which is played out sort of hokey, quick and un-climatic. Go back and read some of the external reviews to the Capra version. Dull and boring is often used to describe it.

One more thing the remake has going for it is the presence of Liv Ullmann who is simply beautiful and radiant . With the inclusion of the I COME TO YOU sequence, she really is the spiritual center of LH'73.


reply

We discussed the placement of the stills in lieu of the missing film footage last time, and as I said then, I agree that I would rather have had these as DVD extras than inserted back into the film (see my previous post). That said, I can deal with them, especially as they occur in only three spots in the film. But your recollection of the Horton scene is inaccurate. It isn't just of him alone -- very much the opposite; as I noted last post, it involves both him and Thomas Mitchell, and most of it is dialogue, not just sheep sounds and laughter. Again, I agree that this scene goes on way too long (especially wihout the original film footage), and that it and the two other missing sequences add little to the plot and should not have been cut back into the film but added on as extras. (As I stated before.) But I'm more disappointed about the missing footage than worked up about the stills.

I certainly have problems with the 1937 version: some scenes go on too long or are not written well (the sequences of Colman and Wyatt strolling and especially the exchange about the use of the word "Why?" is dull at first and idiotic and annoying at last). But I wouldn't play that "go back and read some of the reviews" card about the 1937 version. Go back and read the 1973 reviews, virtually uniformly scathing, very much in contrast with the vast majority of favorable reviews of the 1937 film. Obviously you disagree with such opinions about the '73, so clearly, critics' reviews aren't gospel.

There is nothing "prestigeous" about the direction of the '73 film, at all. Prestigeous? Charles Jarrot -- and who remembers him? -- did one above-average film, Anne of the Thousand Days, and one other little-seen decent one (Mary, Queen of Scots). But the rest of his career was composed of 'highlights' such as The Other Side of Midnight, Condorman and The Amateur. Lost Horizon is widely held to have ruined what career he had. To even infer a comparison with Frank Capra on a directorial level is absurd. On other aspects of the film, its cinematography and other technical aspects are standard -- not bad, but thoroughly unremarkable. No one contributed anything of unique quality or note to this movie. The cast is good but much better than their material, and the people you seem to put such enormous stock in, George Kennedy and Bobby Van, deliver no more than their usual, nuance-free characterizations. No one elevates this film, even when they're better than their roles.

Which as always brings us back to the music. Simply put, I don't agree with your take on it. I find it bland and puerile, lightweight and ineffective. I was the one who cited "Raindrops" from Butch Cassidy but, while Bachrach and David won Oscars for the song (deserved) and score (debatable: I might have voted for Jerry Fielding's score for The Wild Bunch, but it was a very weak year for film scores), Butch Cassidy was hardly a musical. In fact, its minimalist score, basically piano music, clearly supports my belief that that was B&D's true metier, definitely not a complex, major musical. You're right to cite Promises, Promises, a successful Broadway musical, but there again, it's lighter material than Lost Horizon: it's an apples and oranges comparison.

You may be tired of or not like some of the older, classic B'way musicals and like the music in the 1973 film, and I disagree with your opinons about scores such as Oklahoma!. But in both cases this is a matter of personal opinion and taste, not some immutable cosmic fact. I don't like all old musicals, any more than I dislike all later ones. My point is that the story of LH demands more substance in its musical numbers than David & Bachrach could comfortably, or adequately, deliver. Obviously they "had their own style" -- who doesn't? They simply weren't the right kind of composers for this kind of project. It isn't a matter of liking them or not -- repeating myself yet again, I do like most of their work -- just deciding that in this case, they failed miserably.

That's what I believe. You're 180 degrees opposite that view, and that's fine. The vast bulk of critical and popular opinion is closer to my view than yours, but even that really doesn't mean very much. In the end, if a person likes a film for whatever reasons, that's all that matters. I just do not like the 1973 Lost Horizon, and -- another aspect we've discussed before -- disagree entirely that the ending of the remake is superior -- I find it clumsy and utterly lacking in any imagination or mood, made unbearably worse by that dreadful closing tune. Plus I dislike the dishwater music, uninspired direction, weak script, miscasting, the lot. My opinion. I respect your views but just don't agree with most of them, certainly about the music written for the film.

Since we're circling back to previously discussed subjects we may have exhausted this topic for now. But I'll leave you with a thought that occurred to me a few days ago. I do think the story of Lost Horizon could be a good musical in the proper creative hands. The composers from yesterday's Broadway whom we've discussed are all gone now. The 1973 version was a failure (even if you like it, it was undeniably a failure). But this story might be something that the appropriate kind of composer could well pull off.

What about Lost Horizon -- The New Musical by Andrew Lloyd Weber?

Or, failing him, some other similar person with the strong compositional background such an undertaking demands.

Just a suggestion. I'm open to a good musical version.

Ciao. Or should I say, "Chang"?

reply

Charles Jarrott is a very fine english director. The Other Side of Midnight is wrongly perceived (even on IMDb) as being a box office bomb for FOX in the wake of a lesser touted STAR WARS that year. This couldn't be more untrue. TOSOM did excellent box office. Critic Gene Siskel said the film was directed "as if it were great literature". Who's comparing directors here? Capra was a popular AMERICAN director of American movies.

Director and his cinematographer work as one and LOST HORIZON was fortunate to have Robert Surtees as it's cinematographer. LH'73 is prestigiously mounted whether you see it or not.

Let's just agree to disagree. Could LH'73 have been greater? Of course it could have, but given what it is, it IS what it IS and for alot of people, it's more enjoyable than the original for a variety of reasons. I'm not trying to change your mind here.

reply

Well, I'm not trying to change your mind either, my friend. We're just exchanging different (and some similar) points of view.

Director and cinematographer in fact do not work as one; they cooperate, discuss, but ultimately each has his own field of responsibility. Usually, of course, they complement one another's work and the relationship is seamless, but it's not quite accurate to say they work as one.

As to whether LH '73 is 'prestigeously mounted', well, no -- I don't see it. Does that make me wrong and you right? Nope. Just two different opinions...this isn't something factually ascertainable, like "debating" whether 2+2=4, with a definite right and wrong. The film is perfectly decently photographed, as I've said a couple of times; I just see nothing exceptional or extraordinary in its cinematography. But of course, Surtees was a great cinematographer -- a better cameraman than Jarrot was a director.

Segueing to...so what if The Other Side of Midnight was a box-office success? Is that a mark of quality? How many lousy movies have cleaned up at the box office, and how many good ones flopped? If the criterion for a "good director" is box office receipts then the director of the Saw films, for instance, would be one of the most acclaimed directors on the planet. Utterly irrelevant. TOSOM was a critically-panned movie. The Gene Siskel comment you cite was sarcasm -- a remark knocking the pretentiousness of the film, certainly not praise for a directing job well done. I never mentioned how well any of Jarrott's films did financially; obviously I was referring to something more important, if less tangible -- quality. Here again, what's "good" or "bad" is a matter of opinion, but the fact remains that most of Jarrot's films did not receive particularly good reviews.

Also, what's this about Jarrot's being "a very fine English director", as against your subsequent comments, "Who's comparing directors here? Capra was a popular AMERICAN director of American films." Excuse me, but what does birthplace have to do with anything? What, Jarrot is English, so therefore he's an international director of quality, as against Capra's American parochialism? Forgive me, but this is a completely inane comment, and not even accurate from a career standpoint. Yes, Jarrot was born in England. No, he was not an "English director" in the sense that he was initially, or even primarily, a director in England. He moved to Canada in the 50s and worked there for years (stage and TV), went back to Britain for a while in the 60s, then relocated to the US before Lost Horizon and remained here. Only three of his grand total of thirteen films were made in the UK, the rest (from 1973 on) in the US (or at least for US companies, regardless of filming locations). He was an adequate director but there was never anything special or unique about his work. He didn't even receive an Oscar nomination for directing his best film, Anne of the Thousand Days, even though the movie itself was nominated for Best Picture. Certainly he had talent, but there is nothing in his career to suggest any singularity or greatness. He is a virtually anonymous, little-known director of very variable output, with no consistency in his work.

As for Capra, to say that one of the WORLD'S most recognized and acclaimed directors was "an American director of American films" is preposterous nonsense. Okay, Capra worked out of Hollywood. So? This somehow disqualifies his films or himself from greatness or international recognition? Jarrot has mostly worked out of Hollywood. You seem to have no issue with that. Capra's films were (and remain) popular all over the world. He is one of the few directors whose name most people recognize, decades after his last work. He is the man chiefly responsible for a number of films almost universally recognized as genuine classics of the cinema. He won innumerable awards during his lifetime, including three Academy Awards in just five years. This isn't just an "American" view and Capra is no more simply, or only, an "American" director than John Ford, Howard Hawks, King Vidor, Steven Spielberg, Martin Scorsese, or hundreds of others. Jarrot was born in England? This is a "so-what" statement, but since it's been dragged into the discussion, Capra wasn't a native American either -- he was born in Palermo, Sicily. If point of origin is somehow meaningful, then Capra joins a long list of famed, foreign-born directors who made their marks in Hollywood -- William Wyler, Billy Wilder, Alfred Hitchcock, Joseph L. Mankiewicz, Joseph von Sternberg, Fred Zinnemann...the list goes on and on, right through to the present day. US-made films may be "American", but they have been for over a century the standard of success for cinema worldwide, the most popular form of entertainment in the world. To say that Capra, or any of these other directors, was merely an "American" directing "American" films, as if these had no meaning or currency anywhere else, is ridiculous. And anyway, what has Jarrot done that compares to any of these people? Nothing. He's a non-descript director of foreign birth who's spent the vast majority of his career directing "American" films and TV movies.

Well, now that that tirade is over, yes, we'll just agree to disagree. To me, the question isn't, "Could LH 1973 have been greater?", as you put it; it's, "Could it have been good?". Maybe, but I can't see how it could ever have matched the original. Of course, we are to some extent comparing apples and oranges (again), since 1937 wasn't a musical and 1973 was, and, good, bad or indifferent, there are necessarily differences between them artistically and thematically anyway. And almost no remake ever matches, let alone surpasses, the original. To reiterate, I do not say that 1937 was "perfect"; far from it; many things could have been altered for the better, in my opinion (and I'm sure lovers of that film would take me to task for that statement); nor that Capra's direction was flawless, as I've cited several problems I've had with him. But the 1973 film, even with its inherent differences (i.e., music, updated to its era), just fails to generate the kind of romance (not "love" per se but adventure), mystery, character, mood, feel, all caught so well in the original. And I thought the music poor, certainly nowhere near equal to what such an undertaking required.

Like it or not, the 1937 film has, in virtually all critical and scholarly reviews, stood the test of time; it is today as it was 72 years ago -- a widely admired work, however time has changed a few perceptions about specifics in the plot or film itself. No one outside die-hard fans considers the 1973 film any kind of "classic", or even very good, and nowhere has there been a critical revision of this film upward in the 36 years since its premiere. You may disagree with such assessments but what cannot be disputed is the fact that the relative standing and critical opinion of each film remains essentially where it has been since each came out. For the 1937 film especially, to have remained so high in critical esteem after over seven decades is an achievement, as many films haven't fared as well.

Way above someplace I said a problem the '73 film had, through no fault of its own, was that the novel, and first film, were of a particular time and place -- the 30s -- that simply can't be directly transposed into a modern era. Changes in technology and society have rendered much of the book and first film obsolete in their depictions, and the basic story simply can't carry the credibility it did 70 years ago. That's one reason I think the '73 film would have been better -- probably not good, but better -- had it been set in the story's "proper" era, the 1930s. As a contemporary 70s piece, it just didn't work, aside from all its other shortcomings.

Well, we've discussed that, too. And probably everything else. It's been invigorating, anyway. Maybe we can find a film we basically agree on, and explore some interesting points there. It would sort of be like...well, like the toast near the film's end...like finding our own Shangri-la.

reply

You know, I'll answer the rest of you post later, but I'm not going to argue with you about THE OTHER SIDE OF MIDNIGHT. Everybody should see that film and Siskel's review was not a pan. He liked the movie. Yes, TOSOM is a soap opera type albeit trash movie, but there's room for that genre too. In fact, in that genre TOSOM is the best in it's class. There's truth is those kind of movies too. TOSOM is beautifully directed and handsomely mounted as is LOST HORIZON.

With all due respect you come off as a very jaded and overly critical person. If that is how you like to live your life so be it. If you think it makes you intellectually superior than go with it. You're entitled to your viewpoint and your opinion, but it's not cast in stone. You see something the way you want to, but that doesn't necessarily mean it's the way you view it. It's your point of view. Personally, I don't want to be as jaded as you.

reply

Obviously you read things into what I write that reflect your own biases. Who said that there's not room for a movie like TOSOM? I sure didn't. My tastes in movies run the gamut, I like all kinds of genres, in fact to me the only sin a movie can commit is that it be dull. Personally, I'm very middle-brow in my preferences and am more likely to prefer a low-budget sci-fi flick than some alleged art house masterpiece. I have no problem with a film being a sopa opera, or anything else. My only criterion is that it be enjoyable.

But that doesn't make me blind to a film's flaws, even ones I enjoy. And no, I didn't find The Other Side of Midnight interesting or enjoyable at all. To me, it was glossy and empty, and one of the most boring films I've ever seen. It had its moments, like most films, but I found it uninteresting, overlong and plodding. This -- or the fact that I dislike the 1973 Lost Horizon -- makes me "jaded" and "intellectually superior"?

Jaded? Since you don't know me or my attitudes about anything except the two Lost Horizons (and I suppose a little on TOSOM), you really have no basis for making any such judgment, and I frankly resent it, since I made no such personal statements against you. "Jaded" means worn out or wearied, or satiated by overindulgence (I looked it up to get a precise definition), and sorry, none of that applies to me at all.

The best I can figure is that you apparently think I'm jaded because I disagree with you about Charles Jarrot and his work: I'm jaded because I don't recognize TOSOM as "the best in it's [sic] class" -- which is such a preposterous statement that I have to wonder if you're either a relative of Jarrot or simply haven't seen many films in that class. Sure, the film is "handsomely mounted", as you say -- that's a much more meaningful term than "prestigeously", which is vague and imprecise -- but the fact that a movie looks good doesn't make it "good". Nor is it "beautifully directed"; if it were, it wouldn't be as slow, unmoving and dull as it is. (I express these opinions with the same absolutism with which you express yours.)

I was of course joking about your being related to Mr. Jarrot but you do seem to hold a hopeless bias toward him. As I've said several times, most of this is personal opinion, so if you like something and I don't that doesn't mean one of us is "right" and the other "wrong". What cannot be seriously argued is the overall assessment and reality of Jarrot's career and his work. Charles Jarrot has simply not been a critically praised, highly successful director seen as some sort of great or unique talent, with a legacy of acclaimed output. You clearly disagree with that consensus, which is absolutely fine and defensible, but you cannot argue that this isn't the essential critical and industry consensus on Jarrot's career. All Jarrot's films look good, in the most superficial sense, but the same can be said of most directors' films these days, and as you said above the DP has a lot to do with that. But he is not a particularly gifted director, and if he were he'd have had a far more varied, busy and successful career than he has.

I'll close by reiterating that I think your personal attacks at the end were uncalled for. I made no such remarks against you, and if you took personal offense at anything I may have inadvertently said, then I apologize for that, because such was never my intention. The fact that I disagree with you about such a trivial matter as the career and talents of Charles Jarrot makes me neither jaded nor intellectually superior. Let me cite some of your closing sentences: You're entitled to your viewpoint and your opinion, but it's not cast in stone. You see something the way you want to, but that doesn't necessarily mean it's the way you view it. It's your point of view. All true...as I've repeated many times. But re-read your own words closely, and take them to heart. You've made lots of sweeping, very definite statements expressing your views as if they were immutable facts, set in stone. But they too are only your own opinions.

We've debated and disagreed about many things, agreed on some, firmly but I think not unfairly, and certainly not by resorting to personal invective and insults. To suddenly attack me personally for allegedly being "jaded"; to say "that's how I like to live my life" because I think "it makes [me] intellectually superior"; and expressing the morally superior statement that you "don't want to be as jaded as" me, is offensive, grounded in falsehoods and needlessly personal...as is the charge that I act as if only my opinion counted, which could as well (and with equal inaccuracy) be applied to you. Maybe it's you who needs to learn that your opinions aren't the absolutes you express them as, that others can disagree with you without being jaded, intellectually superior, or any of the other petty and pathetic motives you ascribe to me here. Your opinions are no better, or more purely motivated, than mine, or probably anyone else's.

reply

Pardon me, I meant no disrespect, it's just that I'm a person who thinks outside the box. If I like a particular something alot then I'm going to like it despite what anyone says or how unpopular it may be in more astute circles. I've lived in Los Angeles most of my life. I've been surrounded by film critics and film connoisseurs for years. Highly intelligent people who cannot allow themselves to like something without the conformation and permission of certain "experts" or critics. These people, with all their learnedness, form their opinions based on the general consensus of what critics think. It's as if they've forgotten how to think for themselves. In short, all they are is what they think they should be.

Quite frankly, I didn't find TOSOM "slow, unmoving and dull" at all. I think for what it was, the film was an excellent potboiler. Name a better one? It had an exquisite performance by Marie France Pisier and a beautiful score by Michel Legrand. I walked out of that movie mesmerized. Just because you were bored by it doesn't make it boring. It just means you were bored by it. Did you ever think that perhaps the message of that movie might have gone over your head? Perhaps you were in a place in your life where it was of little interest? Perhaps it's just not your kind of movie?

Your statement " Charles Jarrot has simply not been a critically praised, highly successful director seen as some sort of great or unique talent, with a legacy of acclaimed output" is, pardon me, very short sided. It's as if a director has no merit unless recognized by an organization or institution.

It's true, LOST HORIZON '73 has a horrible reputation. People who love it ( and there are more than you think) are almost afraid to admit it for fear that their judgement in films will be held in harsh question. I'm here to say, if you like something and it means something to you, if that film in some way spoke to you on some level than don't ever be ashamed to admit it despite how unpopular it may be. LOST HORIZON, with all it's faults does have merit. It does speak to people.

For me, there are some films that are beyond critique. To get bogged down with what the filmmakers should have done would take the joy out of what the film has going for itself and what I liked about it in the first place. It is what it is.

For me, LOST HORIZON has defied time. I loved it when I was a kid and for many years after that. Of course, when I became an adult I went through my period when I saw it through the eyes of the critics. I could see exactly what they were talking about. I couldn't watch it without thinking what I would have done instead. It wasn't until a couple of years ago that I had the chance to see it again in a theatre that I rediscovered how truly wonderful a film it is. Gone was all the harsh criticism and bad feelings I had about it for so long. It was like reuniting with a long lost friend who I had fallen out of favor with. I have a list of films like that I play whenever the world gets to be too much of an unfriendly place. LOST HORIZON is one of those movies. It's a comfort film.

reply

Hi. Well, we have one big area of agreement -- I thoroughly agree with all you say about making up one's own mind about a film (or book, or whatever) without waiting to see what others think or what the mass of so-called "informed" opinion is. (This is my paraphrase but I think it accurately reflects what you've said.) I think your first paragraph is especially apt. You live in LA -- well, I live in New York, and the pretentiousness level here is probably even worse than it is out there. (At least my friends who live on the "left coast", and my numerous trips to California over the years, lead me to believe that people are more laid back than they are here -- nothing worse than an uptight, upright culture snob.)

To give you an example, for half the year I host a weekly classic movie night at a club I belong to. I always try for varied kinds of films, of all genres, and of different critical or commercial success. I've slipped in a number of lower-budget, or lesser known, movies that people may not know or thought they could appreciate, and the best reactions I get is when someone tells me, "You know, I thought that movie was going to be terrible, but I really liked it," or expressing some other pleasant surprise at a film. One of my closest friends is a woman of exquisite taste who, as nice as she is, is a bit of a self-imposed cultural elitist, not overtly or obnoxiously, but just someone who seems to think she must like certain forms of art or literature or film or music just to be well thought-of in certain so-called "elevated" circles. And yet one night for my movie, from my own curiosity at how the audience would react, I decided to run Animal House -- and this woman was laughing like mad! She told me later that night she'd never seen anything funnier. So it is important not to follow the crowd, to make up your own mind independent of what you're "supposed" to think, and to try as wide a variety of films (or other art forms) as possible.

All this is in line with my previous references to personal opinions, how there's no "right" or "wrong" in what one thinks of a film. Now let's be honest: both of us have expressed our differing opinions about Lost Horizon, Charles Jarrot, and now TOSOM (easier to abbreviate!) in ways that make it sound as if our respective opinions were the "correct" opinion. Hence the occasional attempts at course correction, to remember that these were only opinions, not fact.

For instance, when I mentioned last time that Jarrot's career was not generally highly thought of, you'll note that I was specifically not referring to what your or my opinion of him was, but to what is a fact, that the mass of critical opinion just doesn't hold him in very high esteem. You just brought this up by saying it's short-sighted, "as if a director had no merit unless recognized by an organization or institution." That wasn't my point at all; I was merely remarking upon the fact that he wasn't considered a great director by his peers or film historians; the subtext of which is that if he were an especially good director you'd think he would have such praise. That's not a judgment that the general evaluation of his career is necessarily accurate, only a remark on the undeniable fact that it isn't very favorable, even if you and others feel it's unjustified.

Now, as it happens, I don't think there's anything special about his directorial talents, but neither do I consider him an untalented hack; to me, he's just a standard director who can make a good-looking film but who in my opinion is unable to surmount his material; if he gets a good script (e.g., Anne of the Thousand Days), he'll make a good movie; but he doesn't show, to me, any particular ability to improve a bad script. This is my opinion. But -- importantly -- it's one I reached on my own, not because someone else says "this is what you should believe".

I don't agree with your assessments of LH '73, or TOSOM. I don't imbue them with the meaning or depth or charm or whatever that you do. But I respect your opinions and enjoyed the debate on their merits...though I didn't appreciate the remark that "perhaps the message of the movie [TOSOM] might have gone over [my] head"; frankly, I don't think there is a message, certainly nothing serious, but regardless, that seems to me to be another matter of opinion; please credit me with being able to perceive things. Is it possible you saw a message where there really is none? Anyway, I don't want to argue: you like these two films, I don't. It really is that simple.

Anyway, the important thing is to understand that we've been expressing our views, and I credit you and yours with running against the majority opinion on both films. I have been in exactly that situation myself, on other movies, so I understand how it is to hold a minority opinion on something as important as a movie(!). It happens I concur with the general view of LH and TOSOM, but at least grant me the same credit I give you for having made up my own mind about these films, and not disliking them simply because it's "the thing to do" or because most people or self-appointed taste-makers think something. Believe me, I came to dislike both movies all on my own! But I do respect your contrary opinions. And where would the world be, what fun would it be, if we always agreed on everything? Would you have had as interesting an exchange here if we had seen eye-to-eye on these movies? Nah!

So, thanks for the exchange, and I do hope to keep speaking with you, here or elsewhere. I think I've always tried to express respect for your opinions, and for yourself, and hope this has been clear.

reply

After the initial previews of LOST HORIZON several scenes and songs were cut from the final film. This song occurred midway through the film when the character Sally Hughes played by Sally Kellerman sings a reprise of LIVING TOGETHER, GROWING TOGETHER to George Kennedy. It's a livelier upbeat version than the one in the film. This hasn't been heard in 36 years. Though the film was a critical and financial failure in the U.S, it made alot of money overseas.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YllDN1U0l_s

reply

I'm not sure both versions together are worth all this verbage. The book by Hilton was better than either film to me. But I'm biased toward the literature, since so few films improve on the original novels, whereas most destroy the feeling of magic.

I believe there's a higher intelligence to life except for certain parts of New Jersey - Woody Allen

reply

The novel is wonderful, and the original film captures its magical message. But faithfully following its plot would have made for a dreary film. Capra and Riskin ratcheted up the emotional stakes - letting Conway fall in love with Sondra as well as Shangri-La itself...but also making Mallinson, a minor official under Conway, into Conway's kid brother George, to force him into making the choice to leave. (I only regret that Capra's usual genius with actors deserted him with John Howard, who is always a bit stiff.) And I love Edward Everett Horton's character Lovett.

As for the remake...the (alleged) critique of Samuel Johnson comes to mind: It's both original and good, but what is good is not original, and what's original is not good. The carbon-copy-of-Capra scenes are not too bad. But even the best thing about the new version, the more-authentic Tibetan architecture, was originally considered for the 1937 version, before Capra decided to make Fr. Perrault a man a century or more ahead of him time, capable of Art Deco designs in the 1800s.

What dooms the musical remake is the music. It's simply drab. There is not one melody anyone will ever remember from Lost Horizon -- compare this score with anything by Lerner & Loewe, or Rodgers and Hammerstein, or Jerome Kern, or even Meredith Willson -- see what I mean? Nor are the lyrics ever any more than cute, and more often just trite and tiresome.

Ironically, the original had what was arguably Dimitri Tiomkin's greatest musical score...in a way, it was a musical.

reply

cast was superb, but the film was a corny version of the great original.



"It doesn't matter what Bram Stoker has told you... dead people don't come back from their graves"

reply

You may have already found this but if not; Lost Horizon (1973 musical version) is available now. You can find it on Amazon. There is also a great BluRay release out there:


http://www.screenarchives.com/title_detail.cfm/ID/22926/LOST-HORIZON-1973-

Screen Archives has a lot of old classics on it. Good luck!

reply


If anyone is still interested, the 1973 musical version has been uploaded to youtube... fifteen parts.



How sad, that you were not born in my time, nor I, in yours.

reply