Can someone explain to me why this is so great? - The General (1927) Discussion

[–] a666333 12 years ago

I can't explain it. I watch many, many films including a lot of silent films which in general, I like, but I don't get what makes this considered to be great, even among those of the silent era. It is a a good film, made with skill, care and dedication (including the editing which was very good) but I don't get a "wow" factor out of it in terms of acting, laughs, insight or heart-felt and/or thought provoking moments. I will grant that filming stunts on moving trains from various moving platforms and angles might have been a big thing at the time but given what "Hell's Angels" accomplished at approximately the same time, it is difficult to get excited about that.

The other thing to mention is that the sound track on my particular copy is nothing more than a series of non-sequitur classic pieces. Good music but having nothing to do with the film itself. It really takes away from it and the film thereby suffers in comparison to even solo but custom written piano material you get with many silent films.

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[–] MissyH316 11 years ago

"...filming stunts on moving trains from various moving platforms and angles might have been a big thing at the time, but given what "Hell's Angels" accomplished at approximately the same time, it is difficult to get excited about that."

"At the time"? They'd be an even BIGGER thing today; that's why they're not done like that anymore. And not taking anything at all away from "Hell's Angels" as obviously the scope and danger factor was much bigger visually and viscerally, but Keaton's actions on the moving trains were plenty dangerous as well. In any case: a fatal misstep on any sort of moving machinery, be it a train, a plane, a car, whatever... produces the same tragic result.

One of the most famous scenes is also one of Keaton's most dangerous stunts - when he sits on one of The General's side rods, which are what connect the drivers of the locomotive. The train starts gently and gradually picks up speed as it enters a shed. The visual effect of the forlorn Buster as the motion of the side rod moves him gently up and down is very poignant.

But in real life, it's very difficult for an engineer to start a train moving this precisely, especially one of these antique locomotives. If he hadn't accelerated by exactly the correct amount, the rods would have moved so fast as to send Buster flying, certainly injuring or killing him. Reportedly, it took considerable persuasion on his part (and some very substantial planning) to convince the engineer to go through with it.

Now THIS was "reality" entertainment! :-)

"Think slow, act fast." --Buster Keaton

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[–] Leafawn 11 years ago

I've just watched it for the first time (also the first Keaton film I"ve seen, so I can't judge against other films he made), but I loved every second of it.
Funny, poignant, brilliant stunt choreography, and also a nice take on the futility of war. Loved it.

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[–] SinemaGirl 11 years ago

The enjoyment of a silent film can be destroyed by an indifferent soundtrack. I recommend seeing it with the Carl Davis score, which IMO perfectly compliments the spirit of this film. In my experience, when I share "The General" with someone who has never seen it (and often someone who has never seen a silent movie), the experience is overwhelmingly enthusiastic. Ideally, it should be seen on a big screen with an audience. I've never seen a Keaton film that didn't play better with a crowd than as a solitary viewing experience.

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[–] DeepFriedJello 11 years ago

I agree that the soundtrack was mediocre on the Netflix version I just saw. Pomp and Circustance just didn't seem to be appropriate at the beginning for some reason. I eventually turned the sound down as it wasn't adding anything. I felt I could have put on a Pink Floyd album or something else.
Why it is so great was the effort of production you could see they put into it, and being an almost two hour silent movie it needed to keep your interest, which it certainly did.
This movie can never be recreated, thankfully.

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[–] spookyrat1 11 years ago

...but why does everyone consider this film to be Keaton's masterpiece?

IMO it's because he incorporated so many different genres into his story.

Yes, it's a Keaton comedy, but made with a great deal of attention to authenticity, suspense, action with some great stunts done by Keaton himself and technical achievement.( Yes, Virginia. They really did send that engine The Texan crashing off the bridge into the river. I guess it brings whole new meaning to doing a scene in one take.)

Off course Johnny and Annabelle are two appealing protagonists, with Keaton's famous stoney - faced personage, perfectly suited to play the ultimate accidental hero.

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[–] tobias_681 11 years ago

Perhaps it's not as funny as some of his other movies but it's really entertaining.

---

You see things; and you say Why? But I dream things that never were and I say Why not?

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[–] ficoce 10 years ago

It's a big budget multi-genre film at a time everything had to be done manually. Just the act of managing something of this size at that time was not only difficult, but hadn't been done before. Some shots were done in Oregon - back before airlines and freeways. Even trains were slow. The uniforms and rifles were authentic. The trains were authentic. There were so many extras in this film I'm not sure how Keaton kept track of them all.

Then of course it's silent. It's meant to be shown on a big screen. Films of this era can't be appreciated fully unless seen with an audience and live score. The live score made the picture interactive; the musicians would monitor the crowd and could enhance things through sound fx and just generally charge things up. This wasn't easy for them to do. They had to keep track of the sheet music, what was happening on the screen, and how the audience was reacting - all at the same time. The General would have been a great movie with the music played the right way. Today, some art houses will decide to show a few silents and get pretty good pianists to play music. It's great to watch if they've never done it before - they go from total confidence to a nervous wreck by the third scene. Or, they stick to the sheet music in perfect time and I just about fall asleep.

You probably should watch this one a couple times, lots of subtle details. Keaton didn't communicate with the extras much. Little things, like when the train moved and they fell down, or pretty much any time they looked surprised, was probably not an act - they really didn't know what was going on. He would have been sued in today's world. I like to look for things that I've seen in newer movies - something fun about seeing where other great directors stole material. How many subsequent movies had scenes inspired by The General?

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[–] cyninbend-149-610489 9 years ago

I've read in a couple of places that the entire movie was shot in Oregon--they still used the same old-style train tracks those locomotives ran on. They built the city in Oregon and hired the Oregon National Guard to wear grey uniforms and move in one direction, change to blue and go in the other. It certainly looked like Oregon in every single scene!

For you and everyone complaining of the score or mentioning its importance, it is at Watch TCM right now (3/26/16) and they have a great score playing with it! At least they did when it aired on TV today. There is mention of it at the end of the movie as well, it was recreated. So stay tuned at the end.

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[–] reece-26 10 years ago

I think you stated why it's considered a masterpiece - it's a pretty good action flick in its own right! There's a lot more dangerous stuntwork than just the signature moments, such as all the running around on top of boxcars and the locomotive. For example, in the shot where he's hoisting the heroine from the boxcar to the locomotive tender I doubt there was a safety net as there wasn't one in the other shots of jumping between cars. Her fearful thrashing about wasn't acting. Today most of that would be cgi or bluescreen.

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[–] 10 years ago

[deleted]

[–] PoppyTransfusion 9 years ago

I don't know if this is Keaton's masterpiece as I've yet to watch enough of his films to have any handle on which is the best. It is a very, very funny comedy with superb timing and tricks.

In the midst of winter, I found there was, within me, an invincible summer

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[–] Digital_Data 9 years ago

I try to explain.

First of all, there are moments I cannot explain, how he did it. For example with the railway sleeper (? I am not native speaker, I mean the big wodden part on the railway track). He tries to put it out, the train in his back comes, he get it out at perfect time and than push out the next one with it. That's perfect timing, but also the whole time Buster plays with the audience. The audience knows more than Buster. Even when the wagon is in front of him, he pushes it on the side way track, it comes back, it goes away. The audience knows, Buster not, and that makes it funny. And he plays with that in so many ways.

Than the race in two versions, first he is following others and than the others following him. They have the same problems, but solved differently. That's brillant. And again he plays with the audience. You think you know, what is coming, but than all is different. Miller has tried in Fury Road and I think he missed completely.

Than there are this brillant small gags, for example, when he looses his shoe in a bunch of shoes. I have to laugh every single time, because it's such a crazy idea.

Than it is technically brillant, I mean 50 % of the movie is playing on a moving train and there is only one or two persons on it. And it happens so much, there is no rest, the pace is so high, cutting between the two trains, one problem leads to the next, one gag to the next. It's a movie with a high speed in telling. I also think, nobody can play it and stunt it like him. If you want to do a remake, you will miserably fail. It's a single peace of movie history. And that's it, with the great movies of all time, nobody tries it again. Nobody will try to make "Citizen Kane", and when, they will not get it.

Digital_Data
http://www.youtube.com/LiebensteinMovies

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[–] mnbush 9 years ago

What makes this so great? Try writer, director, star and his own stunt man to make this quite a feat. Then add that it is shot outside with moving trains! Exceptional from a technical point of view and the plot's not bad either.

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