https://www.cnn.com/2021/11/09/us/ahmaud-arbery-killing-trial-day-3/index.html
I think the McMichaels and Bryan are going down for this. No evidence that the victim had done anything wrong that night, just out for a jog. If anyone had run me down with a truck on the road I would have tried to defend myself. Travis McMichael is nuts if he thinks anyone is going to buy his self-defense claim.
Who knows. Don't forget that this is happening in Georgia.
shareI started a thread about it the other day with some good links. I don't think they can be charged with murder since Arbery did try to grab the gun and they could have shot him earlier if that was their goal. They might get in trouble for the false imprisonment and assault charges. I think neighbors should be able to question somebody about why they are in the neighborhood but I'm not sure if people are okay with vehicle chases through the neighborhood. There is footage of Arbery trespassing on five separate occasions in the construction site next to the McMichael's house but there wasn't a theft reported from the construction site.
https://moviechat.org/bd0000082/Politics/618809031d22bd2c3b9f7b6d/Ahmaud-Arbery-Case-Discussion-Should-the-McMichaels-and-Mr-Bryan-be-found-GUILTY
No. But I wish they would stop saying he was "jogging".
Also quit taking the law into your own hands and just call the cops. Let them shoot him.
So was Arbury out casing property to rob later on or something else? How do you want people to characterize Arbury's behavior that night?
shareLooked like he was running, not jogging. But what do I know? I wasn't there.
shareDoes it matter if he was running, jogging or walking? Which one makes him more or less guilty/innocent?
sharerunning, jogging, or walking are always the 3 main criteria for judging a person's guilt or innocence
shareArbery was not wearing socks and he was not wearing running garb. Was he really a runner or was jogging part of his method of looking for targets? Does a jogger take breaks in construction sites on FIVE separate occasions? I say NO but it's now the jury's decision.
shareIt is possible to run or go to the gym for exercise without buying special exercise clothes, especially if money's a bit tight. I myself ride my bike for exercise in street clothes on occasion, and I'm not poor I just think it's silly to spend money on something so inessential.
Someone has to point that out.
It's possible but Arbery was known as the jogger due to his methods of running to locations and then doing a grab and go. Evidence was presented to the court from convenience store witnesses who identified Arbery as the jogger who would grab and go but the judge disallowed the evidence. The judge also disallowed Arbery's medical history but he was diagnosed with schizoeffective disorder. The autopsy also found traces of THC is his blood and zero meds for his schizoeffective disorder. This meant that his symptoms would be aggravated by the THC and not mitigated by the prescription meds. I didn't realize how much influence the judges could have on a case until I saw the Rittenhouse and Arbery cases.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10234217/Ahmaud-Arbery-jury-did-not-hear-five-key-arguments.html
Even if true, and FYI the Daily Fail is not generally a reliable source of information, none of that would make it legal to harass or kill him.
That's all there is to say about this case, that it's illegal to harass or kill people you don't like the look of.
they didn't kill him, he killed himself by trying to grab the gun from a man
shareI doubt it was Arbery's finger on the trigger.
And I've had enough of this shit, you lot are making wild excuses and twisting facts, because you want it to be legal to harass, intimidate, assault, or kill, people you don't want around. Well, it's not legal. Try it, and go to jail.
what a crime: not wanting criminals running around your neighborhood looking for opportunities to steal
shareThey are going down.
They don't meet the criteria for a citizens arrest, that makes it murder.
I was wondering how the jury would react to this situation. I've been arguing that residents of a neighborhood have a right to ask somebody why they are trespassing or loitering BUT I don't know about the citizen's arrest law. I do believe most people would agree that Arbery could have run to the right down Satilla drive but he turned left at the truck to attack Travis McMichael. I don't have a problem with a murder charge if Arbery was shot in the back running away.
Travis McMichael testified that they had parked at a central location to be there when the cops arrived and to see where Arbery was running. McMichael had decided that Arbery was not going to cooperate after trying to talk to him and he decided to wait for the cops. In the video, the McMichaels were not chasing Arbery but they had parked in a central location and Arbery was running towards them. The only complicating factor is Mr. Bryan's involvement since he had been trying to block Arbery's path and he filmed the video as Arbery approached the McMichael's truck.
https://www.wjcl.com/article/ahmaud-arbery-satilla-shores-neighborhood-map/37919400 *** neighborhood map ***
I just want to point out that "trespassing" is encroaching on someone's private property, not running or walking through a neighborhood where one is not welcome, and that everyone has the right to walk or run on public property like streets. And that running does not meet the definition of "loitering", which is defined as "stand or wait around idly or without apparent purpose".
Arberry was doing nothing illegal.
Arbery had trespassed on FIVE separate occasions in the construction site four doors down from the McMichael property. The owner had passed around fliers and videos around the neighborhood to ask for help identifying him. The one neighbor saw Arbery on the day of the shooting and called the police non-emergency number at 1:08pm and the McMichaels called 911 at 1:14pm when Arbery was approaching. A normal person would have stopped to talk to the Arberys BUT Arbery was an unmedicated man with schizoaffective disorder.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10212619/Defense-three-men-Ahmaud-Arbery-murder-trial-claim-acted-self-defense.html
Talk all you want, it's still illegal to harass or kill people you don't want around.
shareI do agree that it's not okay to kill people that one doesn't want in the neighborhood. I do think that people will disagree on what constitutes harassment. I contend that residents should be able to ask somebody why they are loitering or trespassing in a neighborhood. I do agree that public streets are open to everybody to use so a jogger or walker who is moving should not be bothered.
shareOh give it up. These guys had no legal or social right to harass, threaten, intimidate, attack, shoot, or kill Mr. Arbery, and they're going to jail for doing all of the above.
Remember that, next time you feel like exercising "rights" that are not actually rights according to the law.
PS: And again, walking down a public street is the legal right of any human being, it's doesn't magically become trespassing if you're the wrong color or social class.
It's a discussion forum so I will not give it up. I never posted that walking or running down a street is illegal.
Trespassing and burglary are illegal and the McMichaels suspected him of doing both. The only reason Arbery was killed was because he tried to grab the gun. Arbery was a troubled young man with schizoaffective disorder who was caughted trespassing in the construction site FIVE times and was suspected of multiple thefts in the neighborhood where he did not live.
I think you need to review what is and is not legal. You are absolutely confusing assumed privileges with rights, with no understanding of the law itself.
If you ever try to put belief in your "rights" into action, you're going to find yourself in a world of trouble.
So if a person is chased down by armed men, then decides to defend himself, the shooter is justified in killing the person he was attacking?
shareI would say that a person who is being chased by men aiming their weapons at him can decide to defend himself if they shoot at him or are approaching him. If you watch the video, the McMichaels had PARKED their truck and were waiting for the police to arrive. Travel McMichael was no longer chasing Arbery. Travis McMichael had testified that he never pointed his gun at Arbery until the final moments when Arbery ran toward their truck. Arbery could have run to the right on Satilla Drive BUT he ran left and tried to grab the gun.
I will say that Mr. Bryan was independently trying to cut off Arbery with his truck and I suspect that he may have escalated the situation. While the two McMichaels had law enforcement training, Mr. Bryan did not have any training.
Arbery was diagnosed with schizoaffective disorder and he was off his meds. That's why he did not respond in a rational manner.
Travis McMichael was approaching Arbery with a shotgun. I would say he was an extreme threat to Arbery's life and no reasonable person would trust anyone who was chasing them in a truck. In my opinion Arbery had every right to use deadly force against the people who were chasing him that day.
But go ahead and tell me why you would trust anyone who was chasing you like they chased Arbery that day.
A lot of good that law enforcement training did them while they were continually escalating the situation.
Arbery ran at the man with the gun, if that's not suicide i don't know what is
shareI'd say it would have been suicide to just stand there and let McMichael shoot him.
What would you do if armed men were casing you in a car, you ran until you were exhausted, then were approached by a man with a gun? Would you just let them shoot you or defend yourself even against poor odds of survival?
you're the one twisting facts,
arbery ran AT the man with the gun after running around the vehicle
I saw the video, I know that Arbery approached McMichael after they chased him down.
Why is it almost everyone knows it it okay to defend against armed men who are chasing a person, except for you and a few others?
Why is it only the stupid people expect crime victims to stand still for their execution?
Convicted of murder. For once, vigilantism pays.
How are right wingers that were celebrating last week reacting now?
Buncha douchebags. Let them cry now.
shareTwo different situations. Kyle's was clearly and proven to be self defense. This was not.
share
I'm OK with it.
While I suspect Arbery (who had a record) was looking for free stuff to pick up at that construction site during his jog, the neighbors had no right to try to detain him with weapons without sufficient cause, and suspicion of a crime doesn't reach that level.
If you want to play cowboy, you sometimes get stampeded.
well, at least a POS is dead and will never cause any more harm to normal citizens
I don't know this whole story... IMO, the guy who had the gun when it fired is guilty of murder. The other guy (not the guy filming) I'm not sure what the DA argued. IMO the guy filming committed no crime.
shareAll three men were part of a team that hunted down and murdered Arbery. It is not a defense to murder that you only "drove the killers to the crime scene and made a snuff video of their activities".
shareI'm trying to get the legal analysis, and an attempt to establish boundaries for law and order. If I were on the jury I'd give all these guys the death penalty, just by their appearance, same as I would for any thug with tattoos on his face or the back of his head.
I don't think the filmer drove the others to the crime scene. I think he had his own car, and he followed the others, and at some point they all stopped.
Here is where you get it. https://advance.lexis.com/documentpage/?pdmfid=1000516&crid=54269a87-af3e-4da4-93a0-9edb90a9e229&nodeid=AAQAAGAACAAC&nodepath=/ROOT/AAQ/AAQAAG/AAQAAGAAC/AAQAAGAACAAC&level=4&haschildren=&populated=false&title=%c2%a7%2016-5-1.%20Murder;%20malice%20murder;%20felony%20murder;%20murder%20in%20the%20second%20degree&config=00JAA1MDBlYzczZi1lYjFlLTQxMTgtYWE3OS02YTgyOGM2NWJlMDYKAFBvZENhdGFsb2feed0oM9qoQOMCSJFX5qkd&pddocfullpath=/shared/document/statutes-legislation/urn:contentItem:6338-9NJ1-JX3N-B4Y4-00008-00&ecomp=_g1_kkk&prid=07d0fa63-9305-409f-8bfe-354889faaed3
Giving a person the death penalty based on appearance is part of what is what is wrong with the death penalty in this country. I hope the likes of you are never serving on a jury.
but why would a normal, law-abiding citizen get head tattoos?
My original post linked below covers the story and I was hoping for a not guilty verdict on the murder. The father and son originally drove after Arbery and they claimed that they only wanted to talk and find out why he had trespassed five times in a neighborhood construction site. When Arbery was not cooperative, they decided to park at a central location so they could wait for the police. The guy filming saw them driving after Arbery and he decided to join the chase. He was trying to block Arbery's path so I might have even considered assault charges. Arbery was running towards the McMichael's truck when the shooting occurred. I have argued that Arbery could have run to the right down Satilla Drive away from the McMichaels but he chose to turn left to grab the gun.
I think the case is significant for neighborhood watch groups since some people might say that asking a question of a loiterer or trespasser would be provocation. I've been arguing that neighbors should be able to ask a loiterer or trespasser why they are in the neighborhood. George Zimmerman was following Trayvon Martin in the neighborhood as part of a Neighborhood Watch program but Martin came back to attack him before he was shot.
The DM article below notes that the judge did not allow Arbery's criminal and mental history into the trial. Arbery was diagnosed with schizoaffective disorder and he was off his meds.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10234217/Ahmaud-Arbery-jury-did-not-hear-five-key-arguments.html
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10212619/Defense-three-men-Ahmaud-Arbery-murder-trial-claim-acted-self-defense.html
https://moviechat.org/bd0000082/Politics/618809031d22bd2c3b9f7b6d/Ahmaud-Arbery-Case-Discussion-Should-the-McMichaels-and-Mr-Bryan-be-found-GUILTY
“Turning Ahmaud Arbery into a victim after the choices that he made does not reflect the reality of what brought Ahmaud Arbery to Satilla Shores in his khaki shorts with no socks to cover his long, dirty toenails,” she [the defense attorney] told the jury.
Who the fuck is that remark supposed to persuade?
I wonder if that is a deliberate legal move to get an argument that Defendants need a new trial because their defense attorney was psycho.
The two defensive attorneys had a few wacky moments. The toenail remark was irrelevant and offensive but I did think it was important to mention the lack of socks. Joggers usually don't go out running without socks. The other defense attorney brought up divine intervention when describing why his client filmed Arbery's final moments. The other attorney made headlines when he requested no more black pastors in the courtroom but I thought it might be appropriate to ask that celebrity pastors be barred from the courtroom.
shareShe was appealing to the racists (if any) in the jury who would agree that the three men gave an "uppity black man" his just desserts for not properly respecting them while they were trying to chase him down in their truck.
shareDoes Georgia have a "stand your ground" law? I don't think it's relevant in this case (or really in any case where the instigator's actions caused the death e.g. George Zimmerman.) I don't recall hearing "stand your ground" brought up in the reporting.
shareYes they do. https://law.justia.com/codes/georgia/2010/title-16/chapter-3/article-2/16-3-23-1/
A person who uses threats or force in accordance with Code Section 16-3-21, relating to the use of force in defense of self or others, Code Section 16-3-23, relating to the use of force in defense of a habitation, or Code Section 16-3-24, relating to the use of force in defense of property other than a habitation, has no duty to retreat and has the right to stand his or her ground and use force as provided in said Code sections, including deadly force.
Arbery retreated from armed men until he stopped. Then he defended himself. A person can't aggressively pursue someone then claim self defense when their victim turns on them in order to live.