MovieChat Forums > Donald Trump Discussion > Yes, we're headed towards a Constitution...

Yes, we're headed towards a Constitutional Crises. Dark daze ahead, you can book it.


A Constitutional Crises is a threat to the rule of law that the Constitution itself does not provide a solution for under present political circumstances.

The president is getting rid of staunch right-wing ideologues because they will not allow him to prevent the rule of law to applying to him and his family. That’s what the laying the groundwork to fire Jeff Sessions is about. That’s what the firing of Don McGahn is about. The inability to state this obvious fact by the press is a symptom of a larger problem; since there’s no solution to the president’s push to make himself invulnerable to the law, the media prefers not to say what is so obviously happening.

We've yet to learn the sequence of how it will unfold, but the president is apparently intent on pardoning Manafort (which has no real justification outside of obstructing justice) and either ending Robert Mueller’s investigation or putting it under the control of a loyalist who will dismantle and whitewash it.

This is happening right before our eyes. There’s no clear path on how any of this can be prevented. The only partial path, which is political, is if the House of Representatives moves to Democratic control in January. The issue isn’t impeachment even though Trump’s erratic behavior alone would have warranted his removal from office long ago. The key is oversight and investigation; of the countless threads of post-2016 corruption but particularly the Russia investigation.

Everything we’ve seen about the Mueller probe suggests that he is conducting exactly the kind of professional, highly confidential investigation anyone should want. But this is not just about punishing people who have committed crimes who should be punished. The ultimate goal should be that the country should know what happened, whatever it is that happened. That is something that congressional investigations can do and Special Counsels can only do to a very limited extent. Ideally the two bodies coordinate and work with one another, allowing each to fulfill their critical role without undermining the other.

If we look at the totality of the Special Counsel’s investigation it seems very likely that there are things the investigators know about Manafort’s activities that can never be made public in a courtroom. Even if they were admissible it would involve jeopardizing intelligence sources. The most plausible explanation for why this mountain of charges have been brought against Manafort is they want him to admit what they know to be true based on highly classified information that cannot be presented in a courtroom. That is why the president is so intent on pardoning him.

Trump appears to know he cannot let the Special Counsel’s investigation continue, not in its present form, not without risking his presidency, his wealth and perhaps his freedom. For now, there’s no reason to think anyone will stop him. Months of relentless pressure and bullying by the president have made Republicans more accommodating instead of less in helping him to do so. The check can only be a Democratic congress which can not only investigate but conduct a largely public investigation.

It doesn't really matter where on the political spectrum you fall, we're in for some very dark days ahead. This is practically a given.

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Wait just a second...lets not 'monkey up' what's really happening. May I remind you of Hillary's email server, and her colluding with the Russians?

LOL

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Yes, cue the trumptards and conservative media trotting out that broken record deflection.

Trump could accuse Hillary of being a Russian asset and traitor to the country (in an all too obvious projection) and his minions would shamelessly parrot it without a single independent thought over how easily he manipulates them.

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A constitutional crisis exists now - because Trump is a threat to the rule of law.

"The President declines to comment on ongoing investigations. We're confident in our Justice Department & the rule of law & we're sure that when the probe concludes, we'll be exonerated from wrongdoing"

Anything OTHER than that statement is obstruction.

During the campaign, when Trump stated that Judge Curiel shouldn't be allowed to preside over the Trump U FRAUD case because Judge Curiel might have had some Mexican ancestors - that should've warranted a deeper conversation about Trump's lack of understanding about Law, Order, America.

Consider that Trump, at that time, had been involved in over FIVE THOUSAND LAWSUITS. (No art in any of THOSE deals, huh?)

It's worth a discussion about what we should expect out of a Presidential candidate.

Jimmy Carter divested himself from his family peanut farm - Trump is meeting foreign heads of state who stay in his DC hotel & buy memberships to his golf clubs. I expect Presidential candidates to release their tax forms - for at least a decade. I expect Presidential candidates to release the details of their charitable Foundations. Hillary did both. Trump did neither.

The next POTUS should be able to demonstrate that they know how bills become laws. They should be able to give nuanced explanations about the Bill of Rights.

The next POTUS should present a positive view of the institutions that make our country a beacon of freedom in the world. A free press. An independent judiciary. Checks & balances.

The next POTUS shouldn't be a whiner. Shouldn't be a complainer. Shouldn't be a pariah in the global community.

We are in a constitutional crisis right now.


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You make a very compelling point.

I think you're quite right and I failed to step back and look at the larger picture. We really are in a Constitutional Crises right now. Trump is obstructing justice daily with his constant meddling and interference smearing key witnesses in the Russia probe and getting them fired. Yet there is no Constitutional remedy when the traditional check, congress, fails to do their duty to reign him in.

Well the slow climax is soon to reach its breaking point when all hell breaks loose in the coming months when Trump moves to fire Sessions and pardon Manafort. Of that I'm sure and there really is no doubt because there's nothing stopping him. He knows it's the only path forward he can take to survive. He's laying the groundwork for these extreme moves this very moment.

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I read a lot. A few years ago, I got on a biography kick.

Some of the best biographies involve some sort of tragedy or hardship early in the person's life - in the 1st act, so to speak. The person overcomes misfortune or illness to succeed. Some bios involve some sort of humbling experience occurring after the person attains a certain level of success.

Some of the best biographies about Presidents were those that demonstrated that the occupant of the White House was fully aware of the humbling nature of the office.

Trump is unaware of the gravity of this job that he sought - I believe for the purposes of being a gadfly. I believe that he really liked sniping from the cheap seats, not actually ever having to PRODUCE anything. Trump famously doesn't read or study for important meetings, he never sees any room for improvement in his work. He thinks he's doing a bang up job.

He's winging it.

And he is deluded. He's not doing a good job if the base of his party have lost faith in the institutions that make America - a free press & independent judiciary - because he tells his base that they are his enemy & the enemy of the people? And elections? Prior to the election, Trump was laying the groundwork to continue sniping at Hillary from those cheap seats. He used the words "crooked" & "rigged" about the US elections. Back THEN. Now? he boasts about his impressive & unprecedented win. Nothing rigged or crooked here, folks! Russia interfered? Huh, sure, for HILLARY, he says. Nothing to see here about ME, though. Pay NO attention to those Russians in Trump Tower!

Trump smears the USA daily -with his twitter diatribes from his sanctum sanctorum - the presidential toilet. He insults our intelligence daily.

The GOP House & Senate are complicit in this criminal conspiracy, along with Trump's Swamp Cabinet. And GOP-tv Fox News. How can a person be a good BUSINESS person if they reject reality & surround themselves w/sycophants?

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What s great post! Everyone needs to read this and let it sink in. So glad you joined here!

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I think it's time to invest in tin foil because you guys are getting crrrrazzzyyyy.

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Obviously this conversation is way out of reach for you. Please continue to post about Hillary’s emails. That’s more within your grasp.

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No dude, you sound like Alex Jones.

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Great analysis eYeDEF!

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