The Bond discussion - Idris Elba Discussion

[–] howgamer (3929) 4 years ago

I would be fine with Elba playing Bond. I don't really see how he would be more believable than any of the others you mentioned.

However, I do think that casting him in an original franchise would be much more interesting. He is really popular right now and could certainly helm a action/thriller franchise with ease if it is actually written and directed well. I guess a Bond film would be more popular though just because of the name. Personally, I would rather see him in something original.

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[–] kwestmo (4385) 4 years ago

"how he would be more believable"

If James Bond existed and could actually perform feats as the character does in the films, then I think Dalton and Elba appear more capable of doing those feats. In other words their acting convinces me they are as resourceful as Bond. Does that help?

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[–] kukuxu (5409) 4 years ago

A black Bond wouldn't work. Black people have a different set of values and behaviors. Bond's background is clearly white protestant.

A black person would have a different background. You can't just swap ethnic backgrounds, because they're part of the character.

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[–] kwestmo (4385) 4 years ago

You raise a valid point. That is another reason to start an original franchise with an original character; a character who lives the black experience.

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[–] kukuxu (5409) 4 years ago

There's a very useful way to analyze those kind of situations, which is to imagine an scenario where the situation is reversed.

For example, imagine Hollywood decided to reboot Shaft using a white dude. Now watch the Shaft trailer and imagine a white dude playing the role and acting and behaving like Samuel L Jackson

https://youtu.be/ARbzVZDy8qA?t=25

It sounds ridiculous, isn't it? Because it's ridiculous.

Why not to start a franchise with an original black character? Because nobody guarantees it'd be as successful as 007, so "diversity" requires every race to have their share in those franchises that already proved to be successful.

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[–] [deleted] 4 years ago

What values do black people have that are different from white people?

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[–] huwdj (4566) 4 years ago

Bond is a product of his fairly privileged environment, public school (in the British sense) and being an officer in the Royal Navy. He's a type, a posh thug, and skin colour or ethnicity is not the defining characteristic. And yes, I think Elba could make a good Bond.
But I'm wondering if this is at least partly a split along British/American lines - I suspect it might be easier for Brits to see Elba as Bond?

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[–] PaladinNJ (21510) 4 years ago

The biggest issue I see about this is that Elba himself has said he doesn't want the role.

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[–] PaladinNJ (21510) 3 years ago

[deleted]

[–] kwestmo (4385) 3 years ago

That's very valid

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[–] PaladinNJ (21510) 3 years ago

[deleted]

[–] FootOfDavros (8144) 4 years ago

James Bond films are (or at least used to be) pure fantasy.

In Moonraker, for example, Bond drives a gondola across St Mark's Square in Venice whilst a pigeon gives him a double take.

What difference would it therefore make to the believability of that scene whether Bond was black or white?

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-4VlE_HTOuVA/UIvDJTsFa4I/AAAAAAAABQc/gFj2ZPihfLM/s1600/MoonRaker1.gif

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[–] kwestmo (4385) 4 years ago

As you pointed out, the films are no longer fantasy. They reflect modern socially mores and beliefs.

However, you really didn't address the question of why not start an original franchise with an original character.

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[–] FootOfDavros (8144) 4 years ago

Bond films should always be fantasy. They tried going elsewhere previously with Dalton and that proved an absolute disaster, leading back to Brosnan. Hopefully the same thing will follow post Craig.

But your other question there doesn't have any meaning - Of course you could have another franchise with a black original character. But what does that do with why you couldn't have a black Bond? Nothing.

The question therefore becomes what specifically wouldn't work with a black actor? Using the example I gave, if a black Bond was driving a gondola across St Mark's Square, would anyone honestly go "Well this gondola with secret wheels is one thing but seeing a black Bond is just stretching my believability too far.."

What exactly is that quintessential white quality of Bond which could be lost by employing a black actor? Is it the suit? Because I've seen black people wear suits... Maybe the womanising? Again, I'm not sure as I've seen and believe black people are also capable of womanising...

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[–] kwestmo (4385) 4 years ago

Your response was given due consideration.

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[–] FootOfDavros (8144) 4 years ago

... but the problem is that you will never be able to give it it's actual due consideration because to answer you would have to define some supreme white quality which a black actor couldn't bring. And of course that may look slightly racist.

Far easier to simply state that it's honestly not an issue with a black actor per se, just that you'd much rather see them in their own franchise. 😂

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[–] kukuxu (5409) 4 years ago

What exactly is that quintessential white quality of Bond which could be lost by employing a black actor?

The cultural background.

Bond is an obvious white protestant character. Characters with a different cultural background won't fit. A black James Bond doesn't make sense for the same reason it doesn't make sense a Italian James Bond or a Mexican James Bond or a Russian James Bond.

People with different ethnic background are different.

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[–] kwestmo (4385) 4 years ago

Once again, why an original character is needed. Or reboot Undercover Brother!

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[–] FootOfDavros (8144) 4 years ago

Bond was obviously written originally as a white, British character.

But please give a specific example of a scene in a modern Bond film which wouldn't work because he was portrayed by a black British (er, not Italian!) actor instead.

Where would it fall apart? What would seem impossible to believe from a black British character rather than a white one?

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[–] coffeepot65 (9) 4 years ago

This could also be applied to female superheroes as well. Why not just come up with a new character instead of changing an existing one?
I have no doubt that Elba is up to the job, but why not give audiences something new?

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[–] kwestmo (4385) 4 years ago

Yes, when people suggest a female Bond, I tell one existed in the 1960's, Modesty Blaise, and suggest that character be resurrected.

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[–] NotoriousRio (12927) 4 years ago

There was a video game series called No One Lives Forever which had a female Bond too, I'd love to see that adapted to film.

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[–] yvesyves (681) 4 years ago

even though Bond is not real in real life, in the minds of people watching the character in the universe of its movies he is real during the 120 minutes of the movie, so having a black Bond is just weird; it would be like having a black Rambo or Rocky, or doing a movie about the lives of Mike Tyson or Martin Luther King and using white actors, it just doesnt fit in the particular role and universe which is sculpted in people's mind.

the example about Shaft is a perfect example, how on earth could there be a new Shaft movie with Shaft character being white? Or the saga Friday with Chris Tucker and Ice Cube, would they produce a new Friday using a white actor instead of Cube or Tucker? I don't think so; of course the fact that several actors have already played the role of Bond makes it a bit different but the basic principle is the same.

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[–] FootOfDavros (8144) 4 years ago

even though Bond is not real in real life, in the minds of people watching the character in the universe of its movies he is real during the 120 minutes of the movie, so having a black Bond is just weird; it would be like having a black Rambo or Rocky, or doing a movie about the lives of Mike Tyson or Martin Luther King and using white actors, it just doesnt fit in the particular role and universe which is sculpted in people's mind.

Great news! Bond has already been through this...

Perhaps you forget but there was a huge campaign to try and stop Craig being cast as the blonde, stocky, Sid James-a-like "thug" Bond did NOT equate with the suave gentleman spy played by all the previous actors.

Net end result - No difference, people still came to watch this new incarnation of the character, completely different from that "sculpted" in their minds, lapped it up.

So the evidence is in - we absolutely certainly don't have to worry about Bond looking different from what the audience is used to.

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[–] [deleted] 4 years ago

I think Elba would do a great job as Bond. There is no reason why a black man can't play the role.

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[–] kwestmo (4385) 4 years ago

Why does Elba (or any other black man) need a series jump-started by a white man? Are you saying a black man can't start a successful series?

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[–] [deleted] 4 years ago

No one is saying that a black man can't start a successful series, but you could just as easily ask why we need any more Bond movies at all. Why not start a new series with a new character and have no more Bond movies at all?

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[–] kwestmo (4385) 4 years ago

You are starting to catch on - Why cast a black actor as Bond when many other options exist? Do you feel like limiting yourself to that one option that you are fighting oppression?

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[–] [deleted] 4 years ago

Why make any more Bond movies at all?

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[–] kwestmo (4385) 4 years ago

You keep agreeing with me, but don't realize it. Yes, End Bond films and create new charaters.

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[–] asom (6824) 4 years ago

The changed the actors several times.

No one cares if the next one is black or white since anyway will be a different actor ...

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[–] yvesyves (681) 4 years ago

How about an Asian like Jackie Chan? Or a Mexican?

So if Bond is a black actor, would he sleep with a white woman? black woman? If he sleeps with a white woman black viewers could be upset saying it's racism as it implies that white women are more attractive than black women?

The topic is endless, they could simply create a whole new super spy action movie with a black hero but not name him Bond.

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[–] [deleted] 4 years ago

I don't think Jackie Chan would make a very good Bond. Bond has always been a womanizer. If a black actor played the role, he would continue to be a womanizer and sleep with women of all races. And yes they could create a new spy movie with a black actor, but there is no valid reason why Bond can't be played by a black actor.

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[–] kwestmo (4385) 4 years ago

"they could simply create a whole new super spy action movie with a black hero "

My point exactly when I stared this post. It's amazing how many people are resistant to the logical solution.

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[–] NotoriousRio (12927) 4 years ago

I think Pattinson would do a great job as Lara Croft. There is no reason why a white man can't play the role.

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[–] Miyagido (2944) 4 years ago

I can't wait to see RDJ in blackface again for the Black Panther sequel!

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