How in the world is Rhoda considered the ugly, desperate friend?

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I have to agree with you. Mary was likeable and charming, but never a beauty, whereas Rhoda was simply gorgeous, no matter how "fat", messy and tomboy they wanted to make her look. Moreover, she was by far the funniest thing about the show. Her character is awesome, and she played it superbly. I became a fan of this wonderful sitcom just the past last year, and it was Rhoda/Valerie the main reason why I love it so much.

Animal crackers in my soup
Monkeys and rabbits loop the loop

I never understood why Rhoda made such disparaging remarks about herself. She was a beauty. I guess she had to, to have the role. She is still a lovely lady.

'Valerie Harper was a knockout, the best looking woman on the show. Men would have been falling all over her, in real life'.
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I don't recall her being labled or thought of as ugly. But, I don't know if men would have been falling all over her; that's extreme. Are we going to pretend that she was not overweight also? Yes, she was overweight in a very looks-oriented society. She wasn't desperate soley due to her looks but her innate insecurity.

She was beautiful indeed but not very confident-at least during the very first years of the show. She dressed in a tomboyish manner, considered herself overweight and thought she would never marry. In the very first ep, for instance, she looks with admirative envy at the sight of Mary in her nightgown: "How can you be so elegant in the morning ?" she asks.
But this situation changes rather quickly. By season 3, Rhoda dresses in a trendier fashion, frequently gets dates -and sometimes overshadows Mary's love life. It seems she has gained the self-assurance she just needed to be attractive. In the Rhoda spin-off, the character gets engaged then married and is more elegant than ever. Her younger sister Brenda then repeats her complexes, claiming to be too fat and unattractive and plays a similar part than Rhoda's to Mary in TMTM.


" You ain't running this place, Bert, WILLIAMS is!" Sgt Harris

Well, it's Hollywood....while I agree that Valerie Harper is a beautiful woman, IMHO I find MTM more beautiful. By the time of the MTM Show, the difference between the two is arguably negligible, I'd give MTM a slight edge in terms of beauty, but the MTM of the Dick Van Dyke Show is high on my list of all-time beauties. But even by the '70s, MTM, who has more distinctive features (she has a beautiful mouth and eyes - very distinctive), I'd say MTM enjoyed a slight edge in terms of sheer beauty.

But I agree,mere it not for the show taking place in a make believe world created in. Hollywood, no way is Valeri Harper an unattractive, desperate woman. And surely I respect the opinion of anyone who prefers VH over MTM...I can see MTM's features not being everyone's cup of tea, even if I do find her stunningly beautiful (I just watched here on Carson On TCM, from 1983, and I think she looks great there too!)

"It is hard to be a man of peace. It would be so pleasant to kill Mr. Weddle." - Massai, 'Apache'

I don't recall Rhoda ever being referred to as 'ugly', just overweight. And Harper was overweight,which is why she lost 20 lbs. When you're a 30ish single woman, 20 extra pounds is more meaningful than it really is. (5' 6" at 150 is considered overweight.)I didn't see it as case of Georgy Girl with her looks in general.

Both women were beautiful, IMO. In fact they looked as if they could be sisters.