MovieChat Forums > Shelley Duvall Discussion > What exactly did Stanley Kubrick do to h...

What exactly did Stanley Kubrick do to her that was so 'horrible' during the making of "The Shining" (1980)?


And was it really disrespectful tribute if not outright abuse or was it just strict if at times uncomfortable cinematic discipline, of a kind that sometimes if not always gets used in the army and whatnot, and is it really so unforgivable (note that, RIP, both Kubrick and Duvall have passed away, and the movie "The Shining" (1980) came out 44 years ago, why after such a LONG time does Kubrick STILL get reviled for it) and some even use words like sh*tty to describe it etc?

During the filmmaking of the movie "Funny Games" (1997), Michael Haneke was strict with the actress Susanne Lothar in order to get a particular kind of performance from her, but I don't remember HIM being particularly chastised for it and whatnot.

So was it really horrible mistreatment or just an act of discipline that may not have been too pleasant? And say a performer etc isn't doing their job or does something wrong etc, is the director not allowed to get angry with them?

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P.S. THIS may be a bit of an unpopular opinion/stance and POSSIBLY me being somewhat off-topic BUT...

I myself, whether "rightly" or (is that a word?) exaggeratedly, whenever I hear of people (and no offense folks, but don't bother lecturing me please about "being "offended" by swear words, thank you) actively saying that for instance someone mistreating someone or treating them badly let alone respectably famous people like world wide acclaimed film directors like Kubrick being not only out of order, being in the wrong etc but treating others like sh*t, well... It makes me feel IFFY, put off and not too comfortable overall besides the nature of some or other deed itself - although for latter, I don't know everything behind the story.

And ALSO , I may or may not have experienced that but... Depending on the situation, I've had people in life shout and express disappointment at me if I failed somewhere i.e. at work, at school, on some or other project etc and even if I didn't agree with them and SOMETIMES thought they may have been in their wrong etc, I rarely, actually almost NEVER, proudly went out like that and said with full confidence that they are treating me or someone like sh*t or even like garbage etc - BESIDES, OK it may still not be right etc BUT... EVERYONE in life say for very few SAINTS may act angry at someone or express an emotion, few if any wonder too much and on every corner about POLITICAL CORRECTNESS, and NO, I AM NOT making an "excuse for them" and even if I somewhat was, you could just say "No, the reality is..." and must we really shame people too much for that and call (such terms are HUMAN INVENTED too) various names of a childish profane variety like that?

And if someone publicly or otherwise said that like that to ME, maybe that's just me, but I would end up being in the end REALLY PUT OFF, I won't just be able to shrug it off and move on, but that's just me.

And I might be wrong but I thought Stanley Kubrick in general was a NICE guy

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EVEN if, besides talent and whatnot, he was perhaps a little too much on "the perfectionist side" when being a film director.

So the fact that he was officially horrible to someone just feels very surprising to me, but that's just me.

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He was really horrible to actors unless they stuck up for themselves(McDowell, Nicholson). Kubrick's dozens and dozens of retakes were outrageous, he holds the world record for 127 takes for, guess what scene? Yep the baseball bat scene Duvall had to sacrifice her voice, bruised hands, and severe dehydration. Kubrick went way too far, and Duvall suffered the most and yes, I would definitely say it was outright abuse.

https://faroutmagazine.co.uk/shelley-duvall-experience-stanley-kubrick-the-shining/

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Clearly standards and expectations, especially for how women were treated, were different back then than they are now. Also somewhat unfair to judge someone based on the standards of a different time, even though in this case the behavior may have been wrong even for then.

All that notwithstanding, we have progressed to a point where I would say any sort of physical or verbal abuse is unprofessional and cause for a studio to fire a director. If you can't get the performance that you need, it means you should hire a different actor. However artists are complicated, some find inspiration in and even embrace suffering for their craft.
Separately, stuntmen habitually suffer injuries or even death in movies; why is that acceptable? I supposed as a minimum we should establish that everyone should have the freedom to quit at any time without retaliation, and build from there.

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It's invented controversy. Like most things these days.

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