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"I Think I Have the Finest Body of Work of Any American Actor"

posted 2 years ago by ecarle (14979)
32 replies | jump to latest

So I was browsing through a commemorative "Jaws" magazine and caught this opening paragraph to the chapter on Richard Dreyfuss:

"I think I have the finest body of work of any American actor," Richard Dreyfuss told the Guardian in 2016. "It reflects my principles."

Hey...its good to have self-confidence.

Now, is Dreyfuss right?

NOT if he is comparing himself to ALL American (movie) actors of all eras. I'd say that Bogart, Stewart, and Grant have him beat in the Golden Age, maybe Tracy(though he did quite a few with Hepburn.)

So does Dreyfuss mean "of his generation?"

He started in the 70's, so his contemporaries were Nicholson, Pacino, DeNiro...and Hoffman(left over from a 60s start). Perhaps Eastwood and Reynolds don't count from them because they made a lot of "pop" programmers.

Speaking of Dustin Hoffman, does Dreyfuss get to put "The Graduate" in his body of work?

Because Richard Dreyfuss is IN "The Graduate." He pops his head into a shot at Hoffman's Berkeley boarding house and asks the manager "You want me to call the cops?"

Other than that, things start in 1973..but not with American Graffiti. with "Dillinger."

So

Dillinger
American Graffiti
The Apprenticeship of Duddy Kravitz
Jaws
Close Encounters
The Goodbye Girl(Best Actor Oscar)

and then things slowed down a bit but he came back(for the "new Disney") in the 80's with:

Down and Out in Beverly Hills
Tin Men
Stakeout(followed by "Another Stakeout")

and later on he made:

What About Bob?
and Mr. Holland's Opus

So..."the finest body of work of any American actor"...or not?

[–] MichaelJPollock (731) 2 years ago

That's a strange assertion to make indeed... and a good question.
May I also say I quite liked his (short) turn in Sydney Lumet's 'Night Falls on Manhattan'?

[–] ebhaynz (3688) 2 years ago

Dreyfuss might be in the top 10 over these last 50 years, but 1st? No way. He doesn't even have much range. I will say Let it Ride is one of the best, funniest, guilty pleasure movies ever though.

Who do I rank better than Dreyfuss?
1. Nicholson
2. Pacino
3. Denzel
4. Keitel
5. DeNiro
6. Freeman
7. Leo

[–] ecarle (14979) 2 years ago

That's a strange assertion to make indeed... and a good question.

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I figure that he was "having a little fun" setting up the challenge, but actors do have egos.

Rather like Nicholson and Pacino, Dreyfuss's "big run" was in the 70's and then he cooled down for later decades of work. Except Nicholson and Pacino stayed very superstarrish; Dreyfuss not so much.

Dreyfuss could take pride that he was in something as big as Jaws AND George Lucas' very big hit(and classic) American Graffiti AND Close Encounters(in a role he was lucky to get after Nicholson, McQueen, and Hackman turned it down). And of course he won a Best Actor Oscar for The Goodbye Girl. And those were all hits.

Around this same time, Pacino got the blockbuster The Godfather and Nicholson got the blockbuster Cuckoo's Nest...but not all of the other Nicholson and Pacino films were hits like Dreyfuss was doing (try Scarecrow or The Passenger.) Even Chinatown wasn't all THAT big of a hit. Dreyfuss was in a few blockbusters.

So, I'd say that Dreyfuss's remarks make some sense back in the 70's(heck, GENE WILDER was one of the biggest stars of the 70's -- Willy Wonka, Mel Brooks, Richard Pryor as collaborators) but Dreyfuss just didn't maintain the level of stardom of his 70's peers.

CONT

[–] ecarle (14979) 2 years ago

May I also say I quite liked his (short) turn in Sydney Lumet's 'Night Falls on Manhattan'?

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Certainly. He was great in that (made up to look like Dershowitz, I think) and the rest of the cast was great, including James Gandolfini well before The Sopranos.

That's a thing about Dreyfuss. He "made his bones" in the 70s, with blockbusters and an Oscar, and could be counted on to be a good actor with a "name" and fond memories of him in the decades to follow. A few posters here are naming other films in which they liked him a lot (Let it Ride.)

I suppose Dreyfuss might just take credit for those "lesser known" movies as giving him that "Greatest Body of Work," too -- even if not famous or big hits, HE felt they were good, and reflected his principles.

[–] wearsalan (5554) 2 years ago

Is he saying HE is that good or does he feel the movies he is in are the finest in HIS opinion?

I do like him in Stand by Me as well as the movies mentioned.

[–] ecarle (14979) 2 years ago

Is he saying HE is that good or does he feel the movies he is in are the finest in HIS opinion?

---

I don't have anything other than the quote, but I think he is saying that its the movies that he is in...which, of course, he chose or competed for(Close Encounters.)

I'd say that our finest film actors went to a lot of trouble to accept movies with a shot at classic or at least "prestige" status. Jack Nicholson said that director John Huston warned him, "Don't start making movies that don't matter," so Jack managed to grab a few notable films in every decade. And Jack's 1969 to 1975 run was incredible: Easy Rider, Five Easy Pieces, Carnal Knowledge, The Last Detail, Chinatown, The Passenger, Cuckoo's Nest. That's a great body of work right there, and it comes BEFORE The Shining and Reds and Terms of Endearment and, yes, Batman.

That said, it got harder for ALL movie stars to build a "body of work" as the movie business changed and fewer "major dramatic films" were made.

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I do like him in Stand by Me as well as the movies mentioned.

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He narrates that one, right? I don't recall seeing him on screen in it.

[–] wearsalan (5554) 2 years ago

I'm not a big fan of Jacks take on the Joker simply because I felt he was the same as the Shining and it wasn't much of a stretch for him. I do like him in a Few good Men though.

He narrates that one, right? I don't recall seeing him on screen in it.

Yes, he is in it at the beginning before he starts narrating and at the end.

[–] ElizabethJoestar (946) 2 years ago

Having rewatched 89 Batman last night, I wouldn't call his Joker exactly the same as what he was doing in The Shining (way less anger and bitterness in his madness), but I do agree it does feel like Nicholson is just coasting in Batman.

But then again, I always felt the production design was the real star attraction of 89 Batman.

[–] StinkyPoopyPants (3113) 2 years ago

"I'm not a big fan of Jacks take on the Joker simply because I felt he was the same as the Shining and it wasn't much of a stretch for him."

I always felt he just modeled his Joker after Cesar Romero's Joker from the television show. Wasn't much of himself in the character at all. I enjoyed it but I prefer Heath Ledger's Joker 😊

[–] wearsalan (5554) 2 years ago

I agree about Ledgers Joker. To be honest, when I found out he was playing the part I was like WTF!. I just couldn't see the guy from A Knights Tale and 10 Things I Hate About You playing the part. Must admit it blew me away.

[–] huwdj (4566) 2 years ago

It sounds like a fatuous statement but I'm very wary of drawing conclusions from a single quote.
However, do we know what his principles are? Maybe he disapproves of the films most of us think are really good and give his contemporaries a better track record?
I watched Stakeout recently for the first time in a long time and it's still really good (let us not mention it's sequel) and he did make other good movies. Though I have to admit I've always thought the Oscar for The Goodbye Girl was silly and Burton should have got it for Equus.

[–] ecarle (14979) 2 years ago

I'm not a big fan of Jacks take on the Joker simply because I felt he was the same as the Shining and it wasn't much of a stretch for him.

---

Funny you should mention that. Evidently during the "wooing period" to try to get Jack to play the Joker(which took a LONG time and a LOT of money offered) Batman creator Bob Kane came over to Jack's house with a photo of Jack's leering face in the door ("Heeerrre's Johnny!") all painted over with the Joker's face. Might have helped convince Jack to play the role. The money, too.

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I do like him in a Few good Men though.

--

Not only his famous "You can't handle the truth!" line but ALL of his enraged speech in that final courtroom scene. Plus earlier in the courtroom when Jack, contemptuous of Tom's questions about minutia, sneers and says "What do you want to ask me about next -- my favorite color?" Cold.

Indeed, A Few Good Men helps me prove my point here -- a "buried lede" - I think Jack Nicholson probably has the greatest body of work from the 70's on. He has that initially "streak" from Easy Rider through Cuckoo's Nest (1969 and the 70s), then in the 80s we get The Shining, Reds(Oscar nom, SUPPORTING), Terms of Endearment(blockbuster, Oscar WIN, Supporting) Prizzi's Honor (Jack does Bogart in a Mafia movie directed by his spiritual father in law John Huston)...The Witches of Eastwick(a very weird summer movie) two with Meryl Streep(and another Oscar nomination) and...at the very end of the decade...Batman, his biggest payday and introduction to a new generation.

CONT

[–] ecarle (14979) 2 years ago

The 90's: A Few Good Men(Oscar nom, SUPPORTING-- Jack was cool with that) and a famous character(Jack cagiliy noted: "they paid me a lot do just three scenes, but I expect they saw I was worth it.) Blood and Wine(wonderfully paired with Michael Caine as two middle aged dangerous crooks), then "As Good As it Gets" (third decade, third Oscar win -- a big win and a great character.)

The 00's: 21st Century Jack: The lumpy ,dumpy man in About Schmidt(Oscar nom), having a late life sexual romance with Diane Keaton in Something's Got to Give, the goateed Satanic Irish mob mastermind in The Departed(his only time for Scorsese), coining a National Phrase in "The Bucket List" and

2010: "How Will You Know?" A final favor for James Brooks(who directed him to Oscars in Terms of Endearment and As Good as it Gets.) Not a very good movie, Jack looked very overweight but -- he went out in a major film. Done.

And other people like movies like The Missouri Breaks(with Brando), The Fortune(with Beatty) , The Last Tycoon(with DeNiro.)

Yep, I think Richard Dreyfuss was wrong. Its Jack.

BETWEEN the Golden Era guys(Stewart, Grant, Bogart) and Jack, the greatest body of work belongs to ...Paul Newman.

Newman became a leading man in 1956 ("Somebody Up There Likes Me") -- and Bogart, Stewart and Grant were working then. Newman was THE main male star of the 60's(Exodus, The Hustler, Hud, Harper, Hombre and Torn Curtain for Hitchcock), capping the decade in Butch Cassidy(the biggest hit of 1969) and then getting two big 70's blockbusters: The Sting and The Towering Inferno. Newman survived a long slump to come back strong in the 80's with Absence of Malice, The Verdict, and The Color of Money, and kept going into the 90's and 00s as a "great name."

So Dreyfuss loses against Paul Newman too (they looked alike for awhile in their short white hair period.)

CONT

[–] ecarle (14979) 2 years ago

(Dreyfuss) narrates (Stand by Me), right? I don't recall seeing him on screen in it.

--

Yes, he is in it at the beginning before he starts narrating and at the end.

--

Thank you. I haven't seen it in years, I forgot that he actually appeared.

CONT

[–] ecarle (14979) 2 years ago

It sounds like a fatuous statement but I'm very wary of drawing conclusions from a single quote.

---

Me, too. I just found it such a "big" statement of self-confidence, that I had to share it here. (I suppose I could go find the entire 2016 Guardian article for context but...I doubt I will.)

There is someone here at moviechat who posts box office rankings' of movie star films(a great service.) And for Dreyfuss, he had very big hits in American Graffiti, Jaws(Number One of 1975) , Close Encounters and The Goodbye Girl -- which were Number Two and Number Five of 1977(I was surprised that The Goodbye Girl was THAT big a hit.)

This probably puts Dreyfuss ahead of Nicholson, DeNiro, and Pacino in terms of 1970's box office.

But...body of work? Its just not that great for Dreyfuss after the 70's. As I recall, he even did a CBS TV series along the way ...that flopped.

---

However, do we know what his principles are? Maybe he disapproves of the films most of us think are really good and give his contemporaries a better track record?

--

Exactly. Again...we need some context for that quote.

CONT

[–] ecarle (14979) 2 years ago

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I watched Stakeout recently for the first time in a long time and it's still really good

---

I remember it being a surprise hit for Dreyfuss in which he gave us a great creation of believably tough and pugnacious "little man cop" -- believably beating up opponents because he SOLD us on his strength and fighting abilities.

It was a "buddy cop movie" in the "buddy cop year of 1987"(Lethal Weapon, The Untouchables) and a good one, with a good love story , a twisty suspenseful script and a fine buddy in Emilio Estevez(who comes upon a messy crime scene and says in a Desi Arnaz voice to Dreyfuss - "Loo-cie -- you got some 'splaining to do."

---

let us not mention it's sequel)

--

I saw it , I can't remember it, I'm sure it was worse than the original.

---

and he did make other good movies. Though I have to admit I've always thought the Oscar for The Goodbye Girl was silly and Burton should have got it for Equus.

---

I recall the presenter saying "And the Oscar goes to Richard....." and I was sure it was the oft-nominated Burton ....Dreyfuss.

It seemed too soon for Dreyfuss and for too inconsequential a role (though he was good in the scene where he is humiliated playing the Gay Hamlet.) I expect this one was of those "one Oscar for two roles" deals -- he was also being awarded for Close Encounters.

Evidently that Oscar messed him up. He got into drugs big and had to drop out of "All That Jazz"(hard to picture Dreyfuss as a sinewy Broadway dance director) -- his Jaws co-star Roy Scheider took the role. I recall sort of a "long road back" for Dreyfuss from that period.

[–] ecarle (14979) 2 years ago

Having rewatched 89 Batman last night, I wouldn't call his Joker exactly the same as what he was doing in The Shining (way less anger and bitterness in his madness), but I do agree it does feel like Nicholson is just coasting in Batman.

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Oh, I have to disagree a bit here, Elizabeth Joester. Its kind of a personal thing to me -- I remember just being incredibly excited when it was announced that Jack Nicholson was going to play the Joker; it was as if the producers(including the fatuous bully Jon Peters) had scored the absolute top possible prestige choice for the role.

People will note that at the time, actors like Tim Curry, James Woods, and David Bowie(in his acting mode) would have been better physical choices than the already-heavyset Nicholson, and that the "big star" had been chosen over better choices.

But that was the POINT. Batman got the biggest star possible to play the Joker and suddenly the movie was "prestige."

Nicholson's career had a couple of blockbusters(Cuckoo's Nest, Terms of Endearment) but he was more content to be in solid prestige movies that made money -- Chinatown was NOT a big hit; and even The Shining(I think) took awhile to earn.

Conversely, Nicholson had turned down the lead in The Sting("I wish the film well but I think another film could better use my energies") Close Encounters("I didn't want to fight the special effects) and 1978's Superman(as Lex Luthor, I have no quote.)

I daresay that Nicholson saw the Joker as a better "fit" for his wild-side talent, and Batman as a better adversary than Superman. Nicholson told the press "I always liked the purple nighttime feeling of Gotham City.) Nicholson knew that, finally, at the right time, the RIGHT blockbuster had come along for him to say "yes" to.

CONT

[–] ecarle (14979) 2 years ago

However, the "Jack deal" almost fell apart as he dithered so the studio started telling the press that Robin Williams was the new candidate for the Joker.

I remember it was like a light switch being turned on and off as Nicholson and Williams shifted back and forth as the leading candidate. "Jack is in it? I've GOTTA see it! I can't WAIT!" "Robin is in it? I'm not sure I even WANT to see it...no interest at all."

Well, Jack took it, started filming (his first Joker photo arrived in January for a June release) and...I was indeed excited for months waiting to see the results (Michael Keaton as Batman for his Beetlejuice director Tim Burton was heartening, too -- Jack and he had matching, Bat-like eyebrows.)

I showed up all jazzed to see Jack as the Joker and for me...he was great. He had that new "stereophonic" deep voice (his 70's voice had been more of a country twang -- and he was from New Jersey) and he hit his "T" hard -- which was great when he had to say BaTman or "Can someone tell me how a man dressed up as a baTT! is stealing all my press."

Jack's vocal and facial work in the art gallery scene with Kim Basinger was at once very hammy and very cool. I just loved him in the role and though he made $60 million or so off of it -- I still think he should have joined Heath and Joaquin in an Oscar nom -- the one "Superstar Joker" in the bunch.

CONT

[–] ecarle (14979) 2 years ago

But then again, I always felt the production design was the real star attraction of 89 Batman.

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That was great...gave the movie a great, Gothic look.

I will here note that the main art director said he based his Gotham City look on one particular movie: Alfred Hitchcock's Psycho.

Said the art director in 1989: "I've always felt that the greatest special effect in the history of movies is the house in Psycho."

[–] ElizabethJoestar (946) 2 years ago

I showed up all jazzed to see Jack as the Joker and for me...he was great. He had that new "stereophonic" deep voice (his 70's voice had been more of a country twang -- and he was from New Jersey) and he hit his "T" hard -- which was great when he had to say BaTman or "Can someone tell me how a man dressed up as a baTT! is stealing all my press."

Jack's vocal and facial work in the art gallery scene with Kim Basinger was at once very hammy and very cool. I just loved him in the role and though he made $60 million or so off of it -- I still think he should have joined Heath and Joaquin in an Oscar nom -- the one "Superstar Joker" in the bunch.
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I totally get ya. There is a great deal to admire in the performance-- I actually like that this Joker sees himself as a kind of artist in evil, making the art scene great. Even his interest in Kim Basinger's character comes from viewing her as a piece of art to contemplate-- or really to wreck with that acid flower button he wears.

You're making me want to watch it again, to pay a particular attention to his performance. I think my own perception is colored by my affection for the animated series from the early 1990s, where the Joker was voiced to perfection by Mark Hamill. He has this great vocal delivery, ranging from high, brittle glee to growling menace. I grew up with that so it's colored my inner vision of the Joker, if you will.

[–] ElizabethJoestar (946) 2 years ago

Oh, I have to disagree a bit here, Elizabeth Joester.
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Perfectly fine!
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People will note that at the time, actors like Tim Curry, James Woods, and David Bowie(in his acting mode) would have been better physical choices than the already-heavyset Nicholson, and that the "big star" had been chosen over better choices.

But that was the POINT. Batman got the biggest star possible to play the Joker and suddenly the movie was "prestige."
--
Had no clue Bowie was in the running-- I love Bowie though his acting tends to be a bit wooden (I do love him in Labyrinth though). And... though it might be just me-- he probably would have been a bit too sexy to be Joker. And plus, the other guys have more comedic chops, including Nicholson.
--
I daresay that Nicholson saw the Joker as a better "fit" for his wild-side talent, and Batman as a better adversary than Superman.
--
The noirish vibe of Batman probably suited Nicholson's tastes better than the more optimistic world of Superman.

[–] ccr1633 (1523) 2 years ago

(part 1)
I always got the impression that Dreyfuss is an egomaniac who was never particularly liked by his fellow actors. This wild boast of his indicates why that's likely true.

There are at least a couple of obvious ways to judge which actor has the "finest body of work." In Dreyfuss's defense, he didn't seem to pick a lot of blatantly stupid projects for a paycheck. There are definitely a few, but relatively small in number compared to Robert DeNiro. So, if you want to use as a criterion an entire body of work containing some unequivocal gems, a lot of less commercial projects of reasonable quality, and not too much putrid sludge like Dirty Grandpa and The Little Fockers (hello again, Bob DeNiro), then I think it's reasonable to put Dreyfuss in the conversation. In another rating system, you could weigh more heavily the volume of classics on a resume for which the actor was unquestionably the central driving force in the cast. Dreyfuss scores fewer points here. In this regard, films in his favor include The Goodbye Girl and Close Encounters of the Third Kind.

[–] ccr1633 (1523) 2 years ago

(part 2)
I wouldn't pick Dreyfuss for a number of reasons. One, he peaked early. Two, he had relatively few highs compared to Al Pacino or Jack Nicholson, say. Three, and this is a personal criticism, in all of his films including the best I see Richard Dreyfuss at least as much as I see the character. I could say the same of Jack Nicholson and Al Pacino, but the fundamental difference is that I happen to like far more their manifestly distinct personalities. Dreyfuss is amusing in his nebbishy know-it-all fast talker sort of way, but, frankly, I just find Jack Nicholson and others far more engaging and interesting to watch. I'll confess I find them cooler, the kind of guys I imagine I'd like to go drinking with. Plus, the high points for Nicholson (Cuckoo, Last Detail, Five Easy Pieces, As Good As It Gets) and Pacino (Godfather II, Dog Day, Scarface, Carlito's Way) not only include my favorite films of the past few decades, but are also films that are carried by those actors specifically. Some of Dreyfuss's best films, like Jaws and What About Bob, I consider to be carried more by his co-stars, even if Dreyfuss did have an essential role.

In the final analysis, I have to go with Jack Nicholson. He's got a ton of masterpieces under his belt, and despite knowing it's Jack on that screen I think he has demonstrated quite a good range in his acting. Films in which his acting particularly impressed me, films where he went beyond Jack, are The Border, Five Easy Pieces (before he was Jack the icon), Reds, and Hoffa.

[–] StinkyPoopyPants (3113) 2 years ago

Lol. Wow. Someone is very full of himself. He's not even close to his claim.

[–] ecarle (14979) 2 years ago

Who do I rank better than Dreyfuss?
1. Nicholson
2. Pacino
3. Denzel
4. Keitel
5. DeNiro
6. Freeman
7. Leo

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That's a good list...and "true."

It reflects the fact that we seem to have quite a few who "launched in the 70's" and managed to build up quite a list of acheievements.

"Modernly," Denzel (who started in the 80s) makes a lot of sense. He's younger than Jack, Al , Robert, and Harvey...he can go longer. Denzel is one of those major stars who has no shame about taking action pictures to make money(The Equalizer, The Magnificent Seven, Two Guns) and then mixes in Oscar bait to keep his cred up (MacBeth, Fences, even Flight.)

Leo seems to have lucked into his prestige career -- Scorsese "adopted him" and quite a few movies, and QT has used him in two. Titanic is nothing to sneeze at, and his Oscar win for The Revenant was for an art film director.

Freeman is a good vote -- he, too, started in the 80's(movie wise) and ended up in some prestige works to go with his popcorn fare(great voice, too.) Should Sam L. Jackson be here or -- too many Marvel movies?

Dustin Hoffman should/could be here -- The Graduate was from 1967 -- but seems to have disappeared recently in the wake of a LOT of "MeToo" claims.

As I noted above -- and in agreement with at least one other here -- my vote goes to Nicholson. Easy Rider was only two years after The Graduate, and Jack had a major "opening act" in the 70's, followed by significant films and bankability in every decade thereafter before retiring(we now know) in 2010.

[–] ebhaynz (3688) 2 years ago

Hoffman is pretty high on the list, he was huge in the 60's/70's/80's with The Graduate, Kramer vs. Kramer, Tootsie, Rain Man. The "Me Too" claims are certainly relevant, but I can imagine if I was famous in my 20's/30's they would have locked me in jail and threw away the key.

How about a fight between Dreyfuss and Bill Murray? Ok, Murray did bully Dreyfuss around on the "What about Bob?" set but as far as body of work I'll place Dreyfuss above Murray(Another Me Too offender?).

I have no problems with Samuel Jackson doing Marvel movies, by all means keep working he deserves as many paydays as he can get. Funny, I think there's a YouTube video where a reporter calls Jackson "Laurence Fishburne" and Jackson WENT OFF! I'm sorry to anybody reading this but I get these guys mixed up all the time.

[–] JoWilli (19957) 2 years ago

I think its Tom Cruise now. His IMDb page cant be beat. And has been a A list star since 1983.

[–] ecarle (14979) 2 years ago

I forgot about the Great Tom. He is a contender.

Against him, I suppose is: no Oscar wins(but is that his fault?)

And his "modern day resume" is a whole lotta Mission Impossibles to keep him bankable. (His new Top Gun 2 is his first real megablockbuster OUTSIDE those M:Is, of which he has two more coming at least.)

Back in his "launch period," I found it interesting that Cruise made sure to team up with an older, established star to keep his own credentials looking good:

Paul Newman(The Color of Money)
Dustin Hoffman (Rain Man)
Robert Duvall (Days of Thunder)
Gene Hackman (The Firm.)

Those were BOTH "Tom Cruise movies" AND those other guys movies.

Which reminds me:

Jack Nicholson(A Few Good Men)...Tom and Jack made for a BIG star pairing.

And this:

Paul Newman won the Oscar for The Color of Money.
Dustin Hoffman won the Oscar for Rain Man.
Jack Nicholson was nominated for the Oscar for A Few Good Men.

Maybe starring with Tom Cruise helped?