MovieChat Forums > Alec Baldwin Discussion > The fact that people so desperately want...

The fact that people so desperately want Baldwin imprisoned


It's disgusting. He's a moron but anyone who does ANY modicum of research would find he was not the man to blame for the Rust tragedy. The entire armoring team more or less lied and tampered with evidence to save their asses, and that's all clear as day now in 2024.

There are even speculations that a cop, a family friend of the armorer's dad, was paid off to skew the case, and it was proven the cop spoke to the armorer's father over 60 times through phone call in the four months prior to Baldwin's trial. But, sure, Baldwin's the real bad guy. If he were, the armouring team would have nothing to worry about. But they sure scrambled to build a story against the man.

I've heard people moan that Baldwin's case was only dismissed "on a technicality", as if he WOULD'VE been found guilty had it not been, as if he were THIS CLOSE to going to the slammer. It was dismissed because the court found that false evidence had been created to purposely look as if he did more than what actually happened. That's illegal, folks. Also, creating new evidence to make someone look worse is something a guilty person would do.

Just admit you're mad Baldwin played Overlord Trump on SNL and that made you cry.

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Just admit you're mad Baldwin played Overlord Trump on SNL and that made you cry.


Okay.

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People are not mad that he is not going to jail and he is not the main person to blame, but he does share some responsibility.

I would not convict him based on the evidence, but he has a history of being an abusive bully.

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Baldwin pointed a gun at a person and pulled the trigger. If he had complied with the most basic gun handling safety requirement, he would not have killed anyone.

Baldwin said "who handed me a hot gun" right after the shooting. https://nypost.com/2021/10/22/alec-baldwin-asked-why-was-he-given-hot-gun-after-fatal-shooting/

This seems to show that he did not bother to check if the gun was loaded. Then he pointed it at someone and pulled the trigger.

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Baldwin was instructed by the director to aim the gun at the camera and fire, as some sort of POV shot. Who sits behind the camera? The DP and the director. This is why they were shot. Baldwin was not just fooling around with a gun he knew was loaded and aimed it crewmembers as a joke. He was DIRECTED to aim the gun at the DP, more or less, and fire. He was INSTRUCTED that the gun had a blank.

I'm also not sure what your "hot gun" link is supposed to prove, he also called it a "cold gun", as confirmed off-camera by the assistant armorer, moments before the gun fired. He said "who handed me a hot gun" because, well, who WOULDN'T say that?

You seem to be completely denying the fact that Baldwin is an actor, the absolute lowest on the totem pole for safety. He was handed a loaded weapon that the head armorer, assistant armorer, assistant director, and director all said was completely safe. Sure, he probably should've checked, but that isn't his job. He listened to FOUR professional safety coordinators who didn't do their job, and now he takes the blame for someone's death?

Imagine if you were driving a race car on a controlled course that FOUR other "safety professionals" told you the car was perfectly safe to drive, but then the brakes failed and you killed an innocent pedestrian. Let's assume you know NOTHING about cars and it was not your job to inspect the car's brakes. Turns out the FOUR people above you didn't even attempt to do their jobs and blatantly lied because they were lazy, arrogant, and stoned on marijuana. But then, the mainstream public says it was your job to do a full maintenance check on the vehicle, while the four people above you who shrugged the brakes off escape criticism. How would you feel? Probably guilty about the whole thing, but you'd be asking people to look into safety professionals who failed to even try.

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Baldwin was also the producer and responsible for activity on the set; the highest on the totem pole if you prefer. I've been shooting firearms for a long time and know exactly how easy it is to follow basic safety rules and not shoot anyone.

Your race car analogy sucks. A person who knows nothing about cars (including how to drive them) has no business driving one. Baldwin pointed a gun at a person, the gun did not point itself at that person because it was broken.

How would I feel that I killed a person because I would not comply with very basic safety rules. I would of course feel bad.

Those basic rules would be;
1. Don't point the gun at anything you're not willing to destroy.
2. Know your target and what is beyond.
3. Assume the gun is always loaded.
4. Keep your finger off of the trigger until ready to shoot.

Baldwin ignored these rules. Except for #1 and #4 possibly.

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Nope, you still don't get it. What if you were PAID to be behind the wheel of that car as part of your career? Baldwin was PAID to hold an actual antique firearm as part of his career. In both analogies, the person in question is not entirely familiar with how the technology works, but trusts the guidance of professionals who are hired for their knowledge in the field. Those professionals lied to the person in question, and someone died because of it.

Again, you really think a random Joe would be inclined to launch a full inspection of the car before driving it? Have you EVER seen someone do that? "Hey, can I barrow your car to go to the grocery store real quick? First, I'll have to run a maintenance check." No, they get in and go because they're told the car is good by the owner.

To make matters worse, imagine if the professionals attempted to tamper with evidence and skew the image to make you look even more guilty than you are. Sucks? Well, that's what happened to Baldwin, as proven in court. The media bought it at first.

I have firearms too, I live in the southern USA. Baldwin is not. He's a dumb New Yorker who probably took 10-minute bullshit training courses on gun safety. That is why I take this case so seriously. I'm not a Baldwin fan and don't care for his acting all that much, but he was thrust into a situation where everyone around him was an incompetent lying stoner.

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[–] e3e34ifj (1890) 19 hours ago
Imagine if you were driving a race car on a controlled course that FOUR other "safety professionals" told you the car was perfectly safe to drive, but then the brakes failed and you killed an innocent pedestrian. Let's assume you know NOTHING about cars and it was not your job to inspect the car's brakes.

If a person knows nothing about the machine they are going to operate, then they have no business even touching it. Gun or car, does not matter.

Being paid to be reckless does not excuse a person from the consequences of their actions. I think Baldwin knew he was not supposed to point the gun at a person and pull the trigger. But he did it anyway. Even when loaded with blanks, guns are not safe to point at a person as they still expel high velocity debris/gases from the muzzle.

Ignorance is no excuse. He was the actor and the producer. Do you excuse all gun shot injuries that were not intensionally inflicted?

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You still don't seem to understand Baldwin's position.

Was Baldwin the owner of the gun? No. Did Baldwin load the gun himself? No.

Was Baldwin told the gun he was holding was "cold"? Yes. Was Baldwin told the gun was safe? Yes. Was Baldwin directed to aim the gun directly at the camera and pull the trigger? YES.

So, what, they just weren't supposed to get that shot? The POV shot of a gun aiming right at the camera has been done before several times. It's in all three Back To The Future movies, and Pulp Fiction. I totally understand the rule of never pointing a gun at another person, but you still seem to be under the impression that Baldwin was just goofing around on set or something. He was doing EXACTLY what he was told by the director, and a tragedy happened. He did not randomly decide to point a gun at pedestrians, he was aiming what he was told was a "cold gun" at the camera for a specific scene. And who's behind the camera? The director and DP, both of whom got shot. Not sure how many times that needs to be explained.

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You don't understand. Baldwin held the gun, pointed the gun and shot the gun. He alone owns the projectiles that come out of it.

Where do you draw the line of irresponsible behavior?

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I draw the line at the "safety professionals" who owned the gun, loaded the gun with live ammo, handed it to someone who didn't know better and lied that the gun was filled with a blank. That's seriously not a problem to you???

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That is a huge problem. I never said that Baldwin was solely responsible. But the trigger puller always has some responsibility.

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If he had complied with the most basic gun handling safety requirement, he would not have killed anyone.


While that's true, basic gun handling safety requirements are not specifically written as law. Accepted rules of safety are routinely broken in movie making and indeed, stunt people have been injured and even killed breaking the accepted rules of safety.

Legally, there is no precedent that an actor needs to know basic gun safety or to know the difference between blanks and live rounds, nor is there a legal requirement to open the weapon and check for themselves, and therein lies the rub in this case.

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Correct, they are not a law. But they're so basic, that a person cannot really claim they were acting in a responsible manner if they violated those safety rules and killed someone in the process.

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Who should be sent to prison for the bullet that came from the gun Baldwin pointed and fired at the victim?

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The person who put the bullet in the gun, Hannah Gutierrez-Reed, and her boss, David Halls, who negligently mixed live ammo with blank rounds.

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The shooter is always responsible for the bullets they fire.

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Try telling that to the OP who apparently disagrees.

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Some people think that certain other people are just above common sense. Most people think that a person "owns" the bullets they shoot. But for some reason, actors are exempt? I have been shooting and training others to shoot firearms for decades. It would never occur to me that it was the right thing to do to blame anyone else if I shot someone.

I would never pull the trigger on a firearm pointed at anyone, period. It is never required.

Point at a camera? No problem. Point a firearm at a person, never. That is how people die on film sets. The people on the sets of Rust and The Crow have proven this. Some of the people posting here are trying to ensure that no one will learn from these mistakes.

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Ever watched The Deer Hunter? There's a famous scene where I bet the actors checked the guns first.

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I sure hope so. Imagine the alternate timeline where De Niro blew his brains out by accident because the armorer put a live bullet in the gun.

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I can imagine that the guns on the set of The Deer Hunter were carefully checked, but I have not seen any behind the scenes footage.

Were those functioning firearms? Baldwin was using an actual firearm that was supposed to be unloaded or loaded with blanks, etc. Unless the script calls for an actual firearm to show a projectile exiting the barrel, there is no reason to use a functioning firearm on the set.

It is not difficult to deactivate a revolver so it will not be capable of using live cartridges. The cylinder can be modified so that standard ammunition will not fit, but only dummy cartridges or cartridges with a primer to make a popping sound. The barrel can also be partially obstructed so that a muzzle flash can be seen, but no significant projectile or debris will exit and be a hazard for anyone that the prop is pointed at. Normally, shooting with an obstructed barrel is dangerous, but this is the usual method with blanks, especially if a semi-auto or fully automatic firearm is used. This is why an expert armorer is required to be on set and supervising the firearms all of the time. Producers (like Baldwin) need to ensure this is happening.

Gunplay on film sets normally appears to be rather fake. This is obvious to anyone with experience shooting actual firearms. The sound is not accurate; it is no where near loud enough. There is little to no recoil as blanks firing only gun powder and a wax or cardboard wad are far lighter than an actual lead bullet. In the end the producer normally is satisfied with editing the sound to make the gun appear be at an acceptable level and they will use blanks or CGI if they want a muzzle flash.

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you're not supposed to point any firearm at someone, even if it contains blanks, unless you’re aiming to kill them, genius

Only reason Baldwin gets away with it is he’s a rich celebrity

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