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Why Did Johnny Depp's Career Suffer, But Not Brad Pitt's?


Whilst Johnny Depp was being cancelled for standing up to Amber Heard's allegations, Brad Pitt was getting an Oscar, whilst remaning tight-lipperd about Angelina Jolie's allegations of abuse.

There are TWO theories to this:

One: Any person who does the HONOURABLE thing and stand up to a false allegation, will suffer the punishment. And why do I say it's a false allegation in Depp's case, and not in Pitt's? Because an INNOCENT person REFUTES an allegation. A GUILTY person hopes that it will disappear. An INNOCENT person takes umbrage in being lied about. A GUILTY person hopes that if they keep quiet, people will forget. NO ONE would draw attention to a particularly serious criminal allegation (i.e. spousal abuse) UNLESS they were INNOCENT. A genuinely GUILTY person would have NOTHING to gain from highlighting an anonymous allegation in The New York Times.

Two: Brad Pitt and Amber Heard both benefit from BLONDE BLUE-EYED ANGLO SAXON *PRIVILEGE* a privilege I've witnessed on several occasions, ever since I was beaten-up and mocked as a kid by the popular blond(e) kids at school for being 'Jewish' and 'too dark'. Look at how people SIMP for Princess Diana (despite the fact she pushed her step-mother down a flight of stairs on more than one occasion), and Taylor Swift (despite the latter coming from a very privileged and wealthy family, and being treated by the far-right as an Aryan poster-girl for a long time, something that took years of pressure for her to *finally* speak out against; and look at how everyone hates Kanye West, a Black man for being a 'Nazi', and enjoy pitting blonde blue-eyed NAZI poster-girl Taylor Swift against a Black Man who'd be one of the FIRST to be killed were the Nazis ever to gain power). Johnny Depp is that weird, swarthy druggie who makes Tim Burton films (and by the way, there is verifiable evidence that Depp may not have Indigenous American ancestry BUT does have recent BLACK ancestry, hence his dark looks). And Angelina Jolies is that dark, high cheek-boned weirdo who used to drink blood. But Pitt and Heard are blonde, blue-eyed smiley All-American WASPs and so they just 'must be innocent', right? πŸ™„

Wake up people. Aryan privilege is for real. The far-right have a vested interest in perpetuating it, but why aren't my fellow *leftists* speaking out against it? Why are they damning *all* whites with the *same* animus, rather than doing what we used to do back in the day, and recognise that even *within* the white race, there are hierarchies of privilege (which partly explains anti-Semitism and anti-Hispanic rhetoric, but also explains why Eastern Europeans, Italians and Turks, and Catholics in general, among others, have been subjected to historical prejudice despite ostensibly being white).

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Might also have to do with Depp taking Amber to court where we saw and heard things that were private before.

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Things that arguably showed us that Amber was verbally and physically abusive to Depp.

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Yeah, and didn't the stuff she did to him put his career on hold for a bit?

He could be in just a lull and might make a come back.
Though you are right in H.Wood being a cancel culture.
We shall see.

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PRIME example of *strange* writing style (why do they post like this?)

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Pitt was the gentleman and kept private matters private.

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They're both raging alcoholics who got away with too much. These guys were in supposedly committed relationships when they cheated with women who they would later marry. That's important. The guys have affairs, yet the women are attacked, especially by other women. It was always ridiculous how much blame Jolie received for "stealing" Pitt. If Pitt's "Aryan" looks shielded him -- a ridiculous hypothesis -- then why was Depp (for a while) the bigger star? The main difference is that Pitt married a much more famous/better-known woman, who the public was already primed to despise. Demeanor matters more than Aryanness... Pitt projects a carefree, goofy attitude; he's capable of laughing at himself. Depp's shy and soft-spoken.

Jolie and Heard were incredibly sexy, but not likeable. Remove their (fading) looks and what are you left with? They come off as cold and aloof -- far less relatable. People often assume that high status women are peers of high status men, but they're not. Even though DiCaprio is old and plump, he outranks 18 year-old Israeli supermodels. They're not on the same level because his fame is rarer and more precious than her beauty.

High Status Men > High Status Women
Low Status Women > Low Status Men

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DiCaprio is an Oscar-winning film star. One of the MOST famous men in the world. Who are these Israeli supermodels you speak of? What are their names? Because I guarantee that none of them are as famous as DiCaprio.

I see your point about High Status Men and Low Status Men. Blame the patriarchy, and the 'breadwinner' expectations we place on men, for that dynamic. Still, it's far better to be a high status *anything* than a poor/working-class woman, and I bet high status women are less likely to be underpaid, sexually harassed, left in poverty, and even raped and abused, than poor women who don't have the same support networks. We just hear/read more about 'poor' rich/famous women and their marital tiffs, then the MILLIONS of working and middle-class women who are KILLED by their husbands/partners every year.

As for Depp and Pitt. I think the only reason Depp was ever a bigger star than Pitt, was down to the POTC franchise. Prior to that, I'd say that Pitt was the higher-profile actor/star. Depp just lucked-out by appearing in a HUGE family-friendly franchise.

And Pitt's carefree, goofy attitude is arguably part of his whole 'surfer boy' blond/blue-eyed persona/being. Ever heard the expression 'blond(e)s have more fun'? Darker types, like Depp and myself, tend to have the weight of the world on our shoulders. We can't afford to be as flippant and shallow as the mindless blondie Aryans.

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You wrote:
"Who are these Israeli supermodels you speak of? What are their names? Because I guarantee that none of them are as famous as DiCaprio."

This is a strange thing to say when I wrote: "They're not on the same level because his fame is rarer and more precious than her beauty."

That's sort of a classic difference between males and females. Fame is an insane force-multiplier for men, but not so much for women. I don't blame "patriarchy" as much as natural selection. For mammals in general, males have more of a feast-or-famine dynamic.

I agree that POTC launched Depp into another level. I'd say there's something similar with RDJ. There aren't many true leading men who can carry an adult film. DiCaprio is one. Denzel Washington is another. Tom Hanks has seen some decline. Cruise used to do it in the 90s, but now he seems to make mostly big sci-fi flicks and franchise films.

I have heard the expression "Blondes have more fun." I've also heard the expression "tall, dark, and handsome." Pitt does not project airheadedness. George Clooney is also a self-deprecating goofball. A blond actor who comes to mind playing up his stupidity is Woody Harrelson, but that relies mostly on referencing roots in Indiana.

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There are two reasons:

1: Pitt may be a crap actor but he's a MAJOR film producer, he's produced Oscar winning movies and hits, and is so firmly ensconced in the Hollywood power structure that he's protected from scandal. Note how all of Hollywood took his side during the recent divorce, when she tried to accuse him of abuse the wagons closed around Pitt, and Jolie's career suddenly collapsed to the B-List and he stayed right at the top.

2: He's functional and professional, and not a drunken, spendthrift, brain-damaged, scandal-ridden mess like Depp. And no, I'm not an Amber fan, I despise both of those assholes.

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Fair enough. There is *some* truth to both these arguments.

Pitt *is* more functional than Depp, and no doubt much easier to work with when it comes to film productions.

Still, your reference to Jolie partly underlines my argument. Why did everyone come to his side, and not hers? Depp and Jolie are those 'weird' 'dark' 'freaks'. They're not the happy-go-lucky blue-eyed-boys and girls. They're not the prom king and prom queen.

Anyone who thinks Edward Scissorhands and Maleficent have nothing to say about the *real world* need to take another look at these movies.

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Keanu Reeves is also a weird dark Hollywood outsider.

But he isn't an asshole or a mess, instead he goes out of his way to be nice, so everyone wants to work with him and keeps giving him plum roles.

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Yes, but I was comparing like with like (i.e. asshole with asshole, not asshole with nice-guy).

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Pitt doesn't have a rep as an asshole, except in Angie's book.

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Are you saying that Angelina lied?

Once again, it seems to go back to my contention that some people (i.e. the blond(e) and conventionally pretty, in other words, the prom king and prom queen types) are believed over others (i.e. the dark moody type who'd ordinarily be cast as the villain or freak in a Disney film).

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During the promotional tour for Edge of Tomorrow, Doug Liman talked shit about Jolie being difficult. He said that if he wanted to do another ten takes, Cruise's response would be "anything you need," whereas she would question his choices and demand reasons. There were also the critical comments by Sony executives (released in the hack). Jolie sounded professional in the snippets that were quoted while executives seemed like high schoolers, but then we aren't privy to her e-mails talking shit about people in Hollywood. I would not be surprised if the perception of her is colored by banal misogyny.

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Hollywood's perception of her is undoubtedly colored by at least some misogyny, and a thumping dose of ageism, because in Hollywood women are politely escorted off of the A-List on their 40th birthday, while men are allowed another 20 years of leading roles. So at the time, Pitt was seen as someone who could still generate income as an actor while she was not, and of course he was seen as an extremely successful producer while she was seen as an un-established director.

But the fact that the whole Hollywood establishment seemed to side with her is curious indeed, and it makes me wonder if she's disliked on a personal level, and if there's a reason people don't want to work with her. Is she a bitch, is she unstable, is there anything to those long-circulated rumors about fentanyl patches? Frankly, I haven't heard anything about either of them being a huge pain to work with, but if Pitt will both show up on time knowing his lines AND get the film financed... he's the one everyone wants to cast.

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"Banal misogyny"

Quite.

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I mean if I was an an A-List star and would be forced to do 30 rakes on a scene - I would also demand reasons and ask why and what director wants me to do. While Tom Cruise is a happy puppy on set that doesnt have anything else to do in his life and would gladly live on set and do 100 takes. I would not hold it against her in this case.

Tom is not a good actor. All his takes look the same probably. While Jolie takes acting more serious and wanted to know reason why director didnt like it.

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Ok, I went and found those comments you mentioned.

LOL at her : "But if I will shoot both scenes then you will just use the one you want and not mine. If I will shoot just one you would have to use it"

Liman reveals they both had different opinions about one particular scene, and it caused a spat.
He tells Britain’s The Times newspaper, β€œWhen I was shooting a scene on Mr. & Mrs. Smith and I had one idea of how the scene should play out… Angelina Jolie had a different idea. I said, β€˜OK, we could sit here and argue, but we’re wasting time, let’s just shoot it both ways. And she was like, β€˜But, then you’ll just use your way in the editing room,’ and I was like, β€˜Well, I am the director. I might, but I am actually going to use the way that’s actually best for the movie. I have no ego in this.'”
Liman goes on to compare Jolie to Tom Cruise, the star of his new sci-fi blockbuster Edge of Tomorrow, insisting the Hollywood veteran would never have behaved in the same way.
He adds, β€œThat conversation would never happen with Tom. Tom would be like, β€˜You want it upside down? Right side up? I’ll give it to you every possible way for the editing room. I want you to have as many choices as possible so you can make the best movie possible that you can make.'”
Liman concludes by voicing his fear that powerful stars could potentially ruin a movie by overruling the director: β€œI am more afraid of making a bad movie. My fear of the film not being great exceeds my fear of the power of an actor. I’m just trying to make the moment as great as it can be.”

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I remember a writer-director talking about how stars win disputes about how to do a scene. He said it was pointless to shoot it both ways because "they're just gonna dog it" (meaning they'd put nothing into his version of the scene so that when the film is edited there's basically no choice).

Directors often seem to live up to the control freak stereotype. Kubrick was notorious for insisting on a lot of takes and refusing to allow Cruise to see dailies. In the Sony hack, Jolie wanted Fincher to direct Cleopatra, but producers wanted him for their own projects and tried to dissuade her by saying he was like Hitler. Rudin also infamously said she was a "minimally talented spoiled brat."

On the commentary for M&MSmith, Liman says something about how he insisted we see Pitt swallow down some food (Pitt preferred to chew and then spit off camera). I remember thinking Pitt probably didn't want to eat because of vanity and Liman insisted not so much for the story but to establish dominance. I recall Pitt saying that a lot of the time he felt directors wanted him to play a version of themselves. He's always struck me as a relatively amiable narcissist. He self-diagnosed his inability to remember the names of little people as a case of probable prosopagnosia (face blindness).

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Agree on both.

Depp fans forget that Depp was a raging drunk and drug addict ever since he dumped Vanessa for some gold digger. And his acting turned into parody of himself. People ridiculed him for years. And despised for being rich loser with middle age complex.

While Pitt was Hollywood darling everyone loved and respected. And there was never any allegations about him before.

Not to mention producer thing and power inside Hollywood circles.

And again - Jolie didnt accused him on anything. No one knew what really happened and there were only rumors for many years. And then she took away his kids and people loathed her for that and took his side. Because whatever problems they had - she shouldnt have take away his kids. It was just cruel and vile.

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See above for an extended discussion of why all Hollywood took Pitt's side in the divorce, I'd be interested in seeing your comments.

As for Depp, he was a mess long before Vanessa Paradis finally dumped him, back in the 90s he was smashing up hotel rooms, watching his friends OD at the Viper Room, and allegedly playing with guns and accidentally shooting his girlfriends. But since he was a damn good actor in those days and his persona was that of someone sweet but fucked-up, his career survived. It was only after he stopped giving a shit about acting that his career fell to bits, and I don't know how much of that was due to his relationship troubles and how much was him just being lazy and spoiled. But yeah, he was a mess long before Vanessa, don't blame her for how he turned out.

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I dont blame Vanessa. He had a middle age crisis and from "hot young tortured lost soul" he presented himself as became middle age stinky clown. And people started laughing at him for that. Because he was also doing movies and didnt take his acting serious and was lazy walking through movies. And expected to make 20 millions for role when his movies were bombing and no one was thinking "hot young tortured lost soul" about him anymore.

And he didnt understand it. He still thought he was an A-list material and even found himself young gold digger to make him feel still young. So when things fell apart and Heard and all that scandal happened - there was no one to defend him and take his side. People and press just laughed at him. And Hollywood easily dumped him since he wasnt making any big money for them in years. They were even happy as they didnt have to pay him such big money anymore.

While Pitt was still at top of his A-list status. He was bankable. They split up in 2016. In 2014 he won an Oscar as producer for β€˜12 Years a Slave’. Was nominated as producer for Big Short in 2016. He was a big powerful Hollywood producer when split happened.

Oscar Movies Brad Pitt Has Produced Over the Years β€” from 'Minari' to 'Moonlight'
https://people.com/movies/oscar-movies-brad-pitt-has-produced-over-the-years-from-minari-to-moonlight/

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"Never any allegations about him before"

Neither were there any for Depp. Former lover after lover vouched for Depp during his trial against Heard, despite the attempts by Heard's defenders/investigators to find some sort of dirt on him.

You lot are just simping for the blond(e) blue-eyed white people, whilst part-Black Depp and part-Indigenous American Jolie (and unlike blond, blue-eyed, European-looking Pitt, *her* Indigenous ancestry is actually verified), are demonised as the 'dark' and 'moody' weirdos.

I know this prejudice all too well. I've fucking lived it, since I was a kid.

Fucking Anglos and their fucking bigotry. πŸ˜ πŸ‘ŠπŸ½

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Tell that to blue eyes blond God looking like Armie Hammer, LOL. Who was cancelled the moment allegations surfaced.

Just leave that ridiculous theory. I dont even understand if you are trolling. Are you? There are so many stupid trolls on this site that sometimes its hard to have a serious conversation abut something. Go find another site, stop ruining. People come here to write opinion about movie and celebrities.

But even if you are it was still interesting to compare Pitt and Depp situation.

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Yeah, he's a troll. Pretends to be woker-than-thou, but then uses Incel terms and supports right-wing talking points.

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At this point all those left and right wing trolls should be banned from this site. As I come here to talk about movies and celebrities and dont want to see how those clowns and idiots are trolling each other.

There really shouldnt have been any pages for politicians at all too. Or have them in some personal category in the back. But not trending on first page. It is ruining site. Site should be about entertainment world.

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I agree.

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So, because a term is used by 'incels', it must be wrong? Please explain.

Also, what 'right-wing talking points'?

I don't think you solve right-wing extremism by ignoring it. You solve it by tackling it head-on, and undermining the right's arguments through reason and rationalisation. Anything else simply allows the right to believe we're sweeping things under the carpet, rather than displaying the courage of our convictions.

Besides, I haven't brought up a so-called 'right-wing talking point' for weeks/months now. Most of my recent OPs have been condemning racists, transphobes and misogynists. The only possible recent 'right-wing/incel' 'talking point' you can accuse me of, is the Mario thread, and my argument there was less against Peach's gender, and more to do with her being a white monarch/symbol of blond(e) blue-eyed privilege. Sorry if my anti-Nazi/anti-Aryan concerns are no longer fashionable among 'progressive' circles, but I grew-up dealing with blond(e) blue-eyed bigots, and I still feel the scars.

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Armie Hammer is part-Jewish. Most of society already distrusts him on account of that identity. Pitt, by contrast, is a white gentile, with a proclivity for appropriating unsubstantiated Indignous American ancestry, like a lot of pretty blond(e) blue-eyed boys and girls (i.e. your typical prom king and prom queen/Chad and Stacey types) from the South.

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Because no one believes Jolie. Simple.

And he didnt hit Jolie. They had screaming fight on that plane and she dumped him. Deservingly so. But then she decided to take away his kids from him out of revenge and did it. And people dont like that and no one supported Jolie in that. People felt sorry for Pitt.

Not to mention that Jolie never publicly accused him of anything like Heard. It was all rumors. Until just recently she filed some petition and leaked to the press information of what happened on that plane. And in reality it was all him being miserable drunk and screaming at her.

If she would publicly accuse him of hitting her on purpose like heard did - there would be more serious consequences.

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So, it's 'okay' for a man scream to scream at their wife/girlfriend, is it?

Ah fuck that. Blondie may think he has the right to do it, but I don't.

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If you've ever been in a long-term relationship and there was NEVER an argument that escalated to shouting.....you're one of just a few on the planet that can say that.

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If I ever felt inclined to scream at my girlfriend or wife, I'd do the decent fucking thing and walk away before things escalated.

Maybe that makes me a 'troll' according to 'good people' like emori and Otter. πŸ€·β€β™‚οΈ

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Screaming at someone was bad. He behaved like a drunk idiot on that plane. And probably at home. Relationship simply ran its course and they started hating each other like married couples do all the time.

And it was her correct decision to dump him when she had enough. And he was fine with it too. He never claimed it didnt happened. He was like: 'Yep, I behaved like an idiot, I was drunk and high all the time. Now I stopped and got sober".

Marriages fall apart all the time. But then she decided to take away all his 6 kids from him. She alienated them against him. And that was simply vile. People do a lot more horrible things and no one takes away their kids. And she did it out of revenge, not caring that kids will not have a father during their childhood. Because she is selfish and thinks only about her own needs and wanted to kick him out like he was some ex-lover and not the father of her kids.

And she still suing him all these years later. They still battle about some stupid wine villa or something. She wont let go. And kids have grown up without father in their life. No one in Hollywood supports that. Thats why Hollywood took his side.

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That's a fair point, but it's an indictment of Jolie's pettiness rather than a de facto defence of Pitt.

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I think because both Depp and Angelina Jolie look like they are not normal, like they are on drugs or have alcohol problems. I am not saying they have those problems, just they look like that, they have that kind of image.

Pitt and Heard look more normal, like someone you could be friend with.

Of course there are other issues, but I think in the end their public images play a big role.

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"Pitt and Heard look more normal"

Yeah, to the majority of white-bread WASP mainstream society.

To the outsiders and dark 'freaks' like me, Depp and Jolie are the more relatable.

Also, I've seen footage of Heard scream at her own mother. Even if we disregard the whole Johnny Depp thing, she is NOT a pleasant person:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G-fIRqvy6yQ

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There are of course racism in Hollywood, but I don't think Depp and Angelina Jolie are the case.

If it were Keanu Reeves and Amber Heard I don't think anyone would have believed Heard.

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I met Depp *very briefly* in 2005, and he was absolutely lovely. πŸ€·β€β™‚οΈ

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Like I said it is just the image, it is about perception, truth has nothing to do with it, it is what media say about them.

And of course we know media lie all the time, but lies keep being repeated you start to believe them, even we know media lie like crazy.

I have no idea what these people really are like in real life, yet I get those impressions.

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Depp is an abuser , he admitted to it in court documents

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