MovieChat Forums > General Discussion > I was looking for more reasons to despis...

I was looking for more reasons to despise billionaires...


...and came across what I think is an interesting comment. Before continuing I want to clarify that I want this to be a discussion about society and economics, and not about politics. I'm including whole comment for context, but would like to focus specifically on the part highlighted in bold:

Socialism is a non-profit system in which people pay only for the cost of something, without paying extra to enrich a shareholder who didn't actually do any work. Imagine replacing corporations with nonprofit cooperatives. The workers benefit, because they keep the money they receive for their labor. The consumers benefit, because they get things at cost. We already do this for certain services, like public roads, police and fire departments, libraries, and public parks. Socialism is compatible with democracy and freedom.

Corporate capitalism is an insane system that adds a third party into the transaction who overcharges the consumer, underpays the workers, and pockets billions for himself. Those billionaires use the money they steal to bribe politicians and hire lobbyists who then write the rules to benefit the billionaires and harm you. Billionaires also hire armies of propagandists to get gullible rubes to vote against their own interests, and support policies that give the billionaires more control over the economy. (Some of the comments here are rantings from the brainwashed minions of Roger Ailes.) This is why capitalism is not compatible with democracy and freedom. It degrades into a plutocracy (or oligarchy of the wealthy) in which the masses serve the needs of the elite few. Workers in the US have steadily increased in their productivity since WWII, while their standard of living has decreased. All of the benefit of that extra productively has been siphoned off to create a parasitic class of billionaires. (Billionaires are not something to be proud of, but rather a symptom of a failed economic system in which profits are distributed according to authority, rather than contribution.)

Marx believed that socialism was a transition to communism, but he was wrong about that, and many other things. Communist movements have all quickly degraded into facist dictatorships. Stalin for example executed the communists and hijacked the Russian revolution. Communism is not a realistic system for any group larger than a small tribe.

Let’s pick on Bezos. He owns 54 million shares of Amazon. Amazon is $3284 a share. So Bezos has $170+/- billion in stock. He could give every single Amazon employee 40 RSU’s (restricted stock), so they couldn’t be dumped immediately, and still be worth $60 BILLION. He could change the lives of 800,00+ people that work for him and still be one of the richest people in the world.

Of course this is simple but even do it on a sliding scale with tenure. Increase salaries so you may not be as profitable but your entire company would employee well paid workers.

Now compare this to a company like Nucor. Fortune 300. Zero layoff policy. They have never had a layoff. All employees get profit sharing. They take 10% of the pretax profits and divide it among all employees (except upper management) and give it to them. It’s been as high as 20% of the employees W-2. The have what is called “ extraordinary bonuses” and when the company is having a good year they give out money. In 2019 everyone got around $2500. Every-single employee. Even if you were hired a week before.

Nucor did $20 billion in sales with a net income of $1.3 billion. There stock is at $45 and they employee 25,000 people. Amazon had sales of $280 billion with a net income of $11 billion with 890,000 employees. Basically 10xs the revenue with 10x’s the income and a fraction of the employees. The Nucor CEO made $19 million last year (all most all in stock and bonus) and his base salary is 1.9 million. Bezo’s salary is $80k but, look at the stock.

Source: https://www.reddit.com/r/Libertarian/comments/iebxcu/why_do_people_complain_about_the_wealth_of/

My position is that unchecked capitalism is shit, precisely because of the proliferation of billionaires. Millionaires are perfectly fine - inspirational and motivational even. But billionaires are problematic for the reasons outlined in the quoted comment above and more. Unregulated capitalism is founded on the ludicrous idea that resources are infinite and can be exploited into perpetuity.

DISCLAIMER: Resist the knee-jerk urge to label me a communist or socialist. Both communism and socialism are worse than capitalism, but that does not make capitalism in its current form immune from criticism. Capitalism needs to be interrogated and amended.

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Right... I don't know why people expect anything different, except it getting worse. Poor people don't create legislation. Billionaires will obviously continue to have legislation passed that helps them, like every single bail-out.

I saw a mention of Amazon. Do they still pay $0 in federal tax? A single McDonalds worker pays more federal tax than Amazon in a week. Remember when they said, "We can't afford to pay more than $7.25/hr" yet suddenly they could pay up to $30/hr.

I'd just tell people to stop spending money.. Or just avoid paying your debts. There's no debt jail, unless it's child support.

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"avoid paying your debts"

Destroy your credit rating and you won't get a job, house/apartment, car, business, etc..

People need to unite and support legislators who support them. Unfortunately, people are ruled by their emotions instead of intellect which allows them to be easily manipulated.

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Destroy your credit rating and you won't get a job


Now THERE'S an aspect of capitalism that makes zero sense. You owe me money, so I deprive you of the ability to get a job, thereby guaranteeing that you will never pay me what you owe me? The opposite would make more sense: ie foisting a well-paying job on you so that there's a greater chance that you'll be able to make good on your debt.

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"You owe me money, so I deprive you"

No, it's not the creditor. Default, bankruptcies and late payments as well as on-time payments pop-up on credit reports. When applying for a job or an apartment, the employer or landlord will check the person's credit report. Ditto for any type of loan.

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I agree with everything you wrote. I'll add that there are degrees of Capitalism and Socialism. America has an extreme form of Capitalism which increasingly favors rich people. Oligarchy ended thrice with the American Revolution against the British monarchy, Civil War against wealthy plantation owners and FDR's social and tax policies against the rich during the Gilded Age.

American Capitalism needs to be tempered with more regulations that protect consumers and workers as well as higher taxes for the rich and large corporations. The Nordic Model form of Capitalism works better for average citizens and is healthier for democracy.

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America practices what I call "predatory capitalism," where people strive to make a profit no matter what the cost, and where no amount of profit is ever enough.

I'd wager that the vast majority of people have no real understanding of what a billion actually is. We have no context of what such a large number is. We can understand what a million is because it is relatively easy to count up to 1,000, and a million is the equivalent of counting up to 1,000 a thousand times. But a billion is beyond the scope of our general understanding.

If you earned a dollar per second it would take you roughly 12 days to make a million dollars. But it would take you 32 YEARS to make a billion dollars! When you juxtapose two weeks against 32 years then the idea of a single person being worth tens of billions becomes immoral, unethical, and outright obscene.

And now with the burgeoning private space industry we're on the cusp of living in a world that has trillionaires. The concept of a trillion completely eludes me because if you made a dollar a second it would take you 32,000 YEARS to make a trillion dollars.

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Make a profit while denying decent wages to their workers. It's a sickness.

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Some people want to think in a market labelled as FREE we are all capable of boundless creativity and innovation and industriousness, and the world would be deprived of so much if we gave our citizens some semblance of security and compassion. That's all it is - a LABEL with FREEDOM written on it, but it's just a different sort of regulation that benefits those with the means to exploit it. It's an utter fiction to justify a very small few profiting mightily on the effort of poorly compensated masses.
Regulation gets pilloried for being inefficient, and obviously the efficiency being sought is quick maximum profit for the top of the pyramid where money provides insulation from the consequences of poor stewardship.
We live in Society, as a Group, and we should be striving to keep our fellow citizens warm and clothed and fed and healthy, and good intelligent people will see that as the goal for a well-functioning society, not stepping on others to get things others can't have. Sure, we can have millionaires in a functioning society and there may be some resentment, but enough is enough.

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the world would be deprived of so much if we gave our citizens some semblance of security and compassion


This reminds me of an anecdote I read on Quora. Someone asked why Americans are content with a system that can bankrupt an entire family after just one one major operation, when well-managed universal healthcare has been demonstrably successful in Canada and Europe. The response from an average American was basically that he was opposed to universal healthcare because it was communism. That's it. He didn't care if an operation would result in hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt, him losing his home and assets, just as long as his fellow citizen didn't benefit from free healthcare. That level of stubbornness and heartlessness is just astounding! And it shows that in addition to laws and regulation there needs to be a fundamental change in the way the average person thinks if we are to create a society that is free from this parasitic class of billionaires.

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There's a reason why certain Americans are against unions, universal healthcare, regulations which hurt average Americans while supporting less taxes for the rich, etc.. These are basically rich people's policies which have been promoted through cable and radio shows by manipulating emotions. Package healthcare as communist. Package taxing the rich as a job killer.

Most Americans want national healthcare now.
https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2020/09/29/increasing-share-of-americans-favor-a-single-government-program-to-provide-health-care-coverage/

This book explains how rich people regained the upper hand in the U.S.. Excellent book.
"Evil Geniuses: The Unmaking of America: A Recent History"
https://www.amazon.com/Evil-Geniuses-Unmaking-America-History/dp/1984801341

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[deleted]

This isn't a case of despising success but rather despising excess. Having millions or hundreds of millions is acceptable, but an economic system that accommodates and encourages people to pursue and have tens of billions is outright obscene.

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The fact that he was "looking for more reasons to" hate people speaks volumes about him. Not to mention anything about the disclaimer that this, a very clearly political topic, is "not about politics" and the fact that he needed to spread shit from one social media platform to another. He's just going out of his way to piss and moan about anyone else instead of trying to approach life in a progressive fashion.

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If that's what you gleaned from the framing of this topic then that's your prerogative. I am not about to educate you on reading and comprehension.

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Because you can't. You're a hateful little troll that is squeezing political bullshit into the general discussion. That's all you are.

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No, because I WON'T. Do try to keep up.

I'm hateful and a troll? Did you bother looking at my post history before jumping to that asinine conclusion? Not only are you seemingly illiterate and presumptuous, you are also foolish because you are bumping a topic you dislike by repeatedly replying. Use your grey matter and ignore the topic so that it loses prominence and becomes a footnote on the GD board, like other uninterested MC user have done, doofus.

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Are billionaires REALLY all that bad?

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