Would you date someone who chooses to be a woman, ie has had his penis removed or still has his genitalia in tact but identifies as a woman?
Yes or no for each scenario and reasoning.
Honest answers only please.
Anyone can identify as anything they want!
It won't make anyone else believe that you're what you identify as, of course. If I identify as a filthy rich, it doesn't put money in my bank account.
That was not the question I asked but thanks for your input.
shareI take it from this post, you are saying its okay for people to live lies/delusions? If you identify as filthy rich, but i know its not true, should I be forced to lie to you in agreement so as to not offend you?
shareOkay, I'm not a straight man, I'm a pan sexual woman, so my answer would be completely different to most people here, and I know it's not the opinion you are looking for.
What I want to say is that we don't choose who we are attracted to. I mean, I'm assuming you are a straight man, if I'm wrong I'm sorry, but do you look at women and choose to be attracted to certain ones and not others, or is it something that you just feel? Attraction doesn't just mean looks, as we can be attracted to personality as well. I think that most people who identify as straight, would have an issue being with anyone who is not a straight member of the opposite sex.
From personal experience, some men talk about lesbian sex as being hot, but they are actually a little threatened by it when they are in a relationship. I think that most men would have to have some fluidity in their sexuality already to be with a transwoman.
I am not looking for a certain opinion but what I find is interesting is that I recently had a conversation with a straight male who said he would not have an issue with dating a "woman" who was born a man so this is why I decided to pose the question here.
"I think that most people who identify as straight, would have an issue being with anyone who is not a straight member of the opposite sex."
This is an interesting comment because (please correct me if I am wrong) but it assumes that the trans person is not the gender they are claiming to be.
Sorry, I used the wrong terminology. I should have said Cis straight individuals. I agree with the idea that sexuality is on a spectrum, and that very few people are 100% straight or 100% homosexual whether they be Cis or trans. I understand where your confusion might be where I said people identify as straight, but I stand by that statement. If I tell someone I'm straight, that's how I am identifying myself. We really don't know anyone sexuality until they let us know, and that has nothing to do with gender.
shareIf sexuality has nothing to do with gender, than the word has lost all meaning just as gender has. One´s sexuality is based on defined parameters like genders. If genders dont exist as binary as they always have been until recent years, then there really cant be a gay or straight. LGBTQIA2+ is self-contradictory.
shareSexuality has nothing to do with gender. I mean any gender can be straight or gay, or bi, or pan. What parameters are you referring to? While I don't particularly ascribe to the Kinsey Scale, I don't think sexuality is just little boxes that people fit in. If someone who is cis straight has a thought about what it would be like to have sex with someone of the same sex/gender, are they completely straight even if it's something they would never act on? If someone experiments, but decides that they didn't like it, are they in the same box as someone who has never had a thought about it, has no interest, and never would consider it? That goes for homosexuality as well. Some people will try anything once. It's not just black and white.
I say that I am pan sexual even though I have only been with men and women, because I have felt attraction to a non binary person, as well as a trans person even though I didn't act on it. I can't help who I am attracted to as I'm attracted to personalities and not looks. I don't think that is contradictory. I think the issue is that there are too many labels. That is where it gets so confuddled, especially the older I get. I find it funny that people don't want to be labeled or put in a box, and in exchange from being in the big boxes of straight/gay/man/woman we are separating ourselves into even smaller boxes.
I look forward to the day when I don't have to identify as anything and I can just be who I want to be and with whom I want to be with and no one will care.
"Sexuality has nothing to do with gender. I mean any gender can be straight or gay, or bi, or pan. What parameters are you referring to? "
Well, according to the radical left like LGBTQIA2+ groups, binary genders are a social construct because genders are fluid. If that is the case, then neither lesbians nor gay men can define their sexuality since they define who they are sexually attracted to based on men being born and equipped as men and women being born women and sexually equipped as women. If a born woman chooses to live as a man but was born a woman including the genitalia, but lives dressed in men´s clothes identifying as a male. Can the the man dating her really be called gay? And what does gay even mean, if binary genders dont even exist? This is where the hypocrisy comes in. Its okay for lesbians and gay men to use binary labels when identifying their own sexuality/sexual preference but when it comes to straight people referring to trans people, we must use the pronouns they wish to be addressed by or risk being cancelled because binary genders no longer exist and genders are fluid.
Well, gender, sex, and sexuality are different, and they are not what you asked about in the OP. I am not radical, nor do I think that the majority of LGBTQIA2+ are either.
I tried answering your question honestly, which is what you asked for btw, and now you are off on a tangent about gender and trans issues which have nothing to do with what I said, or what you asked. So, thank you, I think I've been clear on my meanings for the words that I have chosen, and I'm not getting into a conversation about trans definitions with you because I don't even understand what you are getting at or what it has to do with your OP.
The title of my post included gender fluidity and my initial question was about a trans person, so I don´t think I am "going off on a tangent" about trans issues but okay.
shareYou asked about straight men, and then you questioned me when I used the term straight. You then bring politics into the conversation by bringing up the radical left. One of the most visible trans women in the US is not a leftist, so why would you assume that everyone who supports trans rights would be?
The conversation wasn't about whether gender is a social construct or not, the conversation was about dating someone who is trans, and not about the intricacies of labeling when it comes to dating someone based on their genitals and not their gender. If you want to discuss that, I think that a gay male who is dating a trans man who hasn't transitioned yet would still be gay male.
Its okay for lesbians and gay men to use binary labels when identifying their own sexuality/sexual preference but when it comes to straight people referring to trans people, we must use the pronouns they wish to be addressed by or risk being cancelled because binary genders no longer exist and genders are fluid.
I asked for a straight man´s perspective about whether they would date someone who is trans. If you thought this was about straight people sorry for being "deceptive".
"One of the most visible trans women in the US is not a leftist, "
I don´t even know who you are talking about but LGBTQ groups are staunchly left and any who identify as such and claim to be conservative are the exception to the rule.
"First of all, what point are you trying to make with this? Pronouns have nothing to do with sexuality. "
Because you cannot define homosexuality without agreeing on what the definition of a man or a woman is. If gender is fluid and cannot be defined, then you cannot define homosexuality. If you cannot define homosexuality then the L and G in LGBTQ implodes on itself. Therein lies the contradiction.
“ "One of the most visible trans women in the US is not a leftist, "
I don´t even know who you are talking about”
https://moviechat.org/nm0421063/Caitlyn-Jenner
Thank you but that does nothing to change my view that social justice, and woke ideology comes from the political left, not that I care that much either way about where it originates from politically, since I am first and foremost a Christian.
shareSo is this post about dating an trans woman or your issue with the political left?
shareThis post is really about highlighting the hypocrisy and contradictory nature of LGBTQI2A+ groups regardless of where the idea for gender fluidity originates politically, although I was genuinely curious about whether "straight men" going out with a trans woman would be a deal breaker since I was told otherwise.
shareHypocrisy? Doesn’t the bible say
“Do not judge, or you too will be judged. For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you. "Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye?”
Yet here you are, a Christian, posting something publicly that is extremely judgemental.
Should we talk more about hypocrisy?
Thanks for bringing that up. It is a commonly misunderstood passage for those who do not read scripture. Matthew 7 is referring to a self-righteous hypocrisy.
Judging someone that is doing wrong in the eyes of God is not hypocrisy nor is it inherently wrong, its actually encouraged, which I will get to. On the other hand, if I were to be trans myself and told others not be trans, that would be hypocritical judgment.
But exposing evil for what it is, is not hypocritical nor Biblically wrong. Indeed Ephesians 5:11 says to not partake evil deeds but to expose them. Moreover, John 7:24 says to "judge with righteous judgment", not to not judge at all.
If we couldn´t make judgments about eachother´s actions, then how could we expose evil if we couldn´t identify what it was?
I'm straight and I believe that transgenderism is a mental illness similar to schizophrenia and depression and should be addressed the same way. I wouldn't encourage someone who is depressed to slit their wrists the same way I wouldn't tell someone who is transgender to cut a sexual appendage off.
I would never date someone who claimed to be a woman who had their penis chopped off.
Thank you for your honesty.
sharei think the best analogy is anorexia, particularly in the way trans-identification has taken on a social contagion. there are a lot of similarities in the way anorexia & trans-identity spread among teen girls, who seem particularly prone to those sorts of social contagions.
the big difference is that you generally don't see professionals like teachers and therapists approving & even cheering on anorexics.
I think you make a very valid point. Thank for your input.
shareAgree 💯
shareI've used that example a few times on this site. Just wanted to change it up.
shareWell said.
shareOnly if they’re prepared to date someone who identifies as a truck - that’s how I roll.
shareNot a chance. Quite simply because the thought of being intimate with someone that has had a penis is revolting to me.
shareI think many straight men would also share this view.
shareThats exactly right. Its nothing against men that want to be women. It's their life, their business. Doesn't bother me one bit. I just could never be intimate with a woman that at one time was a man - no way.
shareSo why is when I say this, you go off on me?
shareWho is going off on whom?
shareI said that most men would have an issue with it, and that we don't choose who we are attracted to, and you go off about gender definitions and the political left. Here you just agree.
shareI did not agree. I said most straight men would probably share this view. And I didn´t consider my response to you as "going off", I thought I responded in quite a cordial and respectful manner. I certainly didnt use any language that would be considered "being hostile", I just found it interesting that as someone who is pan and probably identifies with the LGBTQI2A+ community, that you used terminology that some radicals would claim is "bigoted" if it came from someone "privileged", although you indeed corrected yourself after. The fact that you had a natural inclination to use traditional terminology is what I found interesting and then the conversation grew from there.
shareNot everyone in the LGBTQ+ community is radical. Just like not all Christians are radical, nor all Muslims are terrorists, nor all right wingers are racist bigots, nor are all left wingers in support of cancel culture. In fact, I would say that the majority of all the groups that I mentioned are not radical and are just everyday people trying to live their lives.
I'm also over the age of 40 and cis is still a relatively new term in the general vernacular which I don't always remember to use when referring to cis people. I still greet my friends with "hey guys" as well no matter which gender they are. I'm trying to be better with my language but sometimes it just takes a little practice.
I respect that not everyone LGBTQ+ is radical but politically we are being pushed to pander to the extreme radicals of these groups especially by the MSM or face being cancelled/persecuted in some way, shape or form. The irony is that, its culturally not okay to offend certain identity groups but if you are not part of the status quo and what you say is considered offensive, then it is culturally fair game to destroy your life/livelihood. I think that is problematic no matter where you lie on the political spectrum. My personal view is that trans people are gender dysphoric and delusional and I will not lie to someone so as to make them feel better about being sustained in such a delusion. Nonetheless, I appreciate your replies despite the fact we that we do not see eye to eye with each other.
shareIt's not that we don't see eye to eye. You asked about wanting to date and then you said that you wanted honest answers, but you weren't honest in your motivation for posting this. You even said
This post is really about highlighting the hypocrisy and contradictory nature of LGBTQI2A+ groups regardless of where the idea for gender fluidity originates politically, although I was genuinely curious about whether "straight men" going out with a trans woman would be a deal breaker since I was told otherwise.
I admitted that the purpose of my post was two-fold. Maybe I should not have used the word, "really" but I definitely had two purposes in my mind when I posted this, and I don´t think that makes my post dishonest in any way. As a Christian, I am always going to have a Christian motivation for posting what I post whether that be to expose evil, highlight Biblical truth, or share the gospel in some way.
These will always be my motivations and enough people know who I am here on MC to see right through me and where I am coming from, even though I may not always be crystal clear about it. In addition, people post for a plethora of reasons here, whether it is to troll people, stir up division or simply to alleviate boredom. They aren´t always up front about their reasons but usually they are obvious. It doesn´t necessarily make their motivations dishonest just because they don´t mention their motivations every single time they post. Furthermore, if it was my intention to be deceptive, I wouldn´t have been so forthcoming about what my religious beliefs and wouldn´t have outright told you what I think to be true.
"If I had answered as a straight female and just said no, or even yes, you wouldn't have included how you think that the radical left and the LGBTQ+ community are hypocrites. "
Its MC, there was bound to be someone that would have an unBiblical worldview about our God-given gender, you just happened to be the first person to disagree with me.
How am I disagreeing with you though? This was my point when I replied to this reply and not reply. I agree that the majority of straight people, or since you called me out on just using straight, cis straight people will not be attracted to or want to date a trans individual. Wasn't that the point?
No where have I said that there is anything wrong with that either. We don't control who we are attracted to or what attracts us. So I don't see anything wrong with cis straight people not dating trans individuals, nor would I judge anyone who did. Even if I thought it was a sin, we are still supposed to love the sinners. You don't have to agree with something that you don't understand, I mean I don't think that anyone who isn't trans or has gender dysphoria could ever begin to understand, but to say that you are exposing evil doesn't sound very Christian to me. What is evil about someone trying to understand who they are? Remember Roman's 3:10.
Romans 3:10 is precisely why we need the Saviour and why we need to repent because without him we are not righteous and are hell bound. I don´t mean to sound condescending but it will probably come across that way, none the less, but you don´t know what evil is because you are blinded by sin but God says what is evil in his word. And going against what God ordained you to be is sin. Psalm 139:13-16.
We love sinners by sharing the truth with them, in the hope that Christ convicts them of sin, grants them repentance so that they will be saved.
We love sinners by sharing the truth with them, in the hope that Christ convicts them of sin, grants them repentance so that they will be saved.
"But not to judge them."
How can someone repent of their sins if they don´t think they are doing anything wrong and they don´t have anyone telling them they are doing wrong in God´s eyes?
Matthew 7:1 Judge not, that ye be not judged. For with the judgment you pronounce you will be judged, and with the measure you use it will be measured to you.
So you can judge them all you want, but you don't have the final say in how they are sinning. That is up to God, and only God to decide if what they are doing is wrong. The Bible is written by man, and interpreted by man, and it's hubris to think that man knows exactly what God would or wouldn't want for us.
I am going to copy/paste exactly what I wrote to someone else who brought up the same passage you did.
It is a commonly misunderstood passage for those who do not read scripture. Matthew 7 is referring to a self-righteous hypocrisy.
Judging someone that is doing wrong in the eyes of God is not hypocrisy nor is it inherently wrong, its actually encouraged, which I will get to. On the other hand, if I were to be trans myself and told others not be trans, that would be hypocritical judgment.
But exposing evil for what it is, is not hypocritical nor Biblically wrong. Indeed Ephesians 5:11 says to not partake evil deeds but to expose them. Moreover, John 7:24 says to "judge with righteous judgment", not to not judge at all.
If we couldn´t make judgments about eachother´s actions, then how could we expose evil if we couldn´t identify what it was?
I said nothing about hypocrisy in my post. I said that it's hubris for man to know what God will judge. God will look at the whole person. You make the judgement with the values that you define yourself by.
I find it funny that you assume that I don't read scripture. My first degree was from a Christian university and my father is a minister. Just because I don't believe it doesn't mean that I am uneducated.
Where in the bible does it say being trans is evil?
"I said nothing about hypocrisy in my post."
But you quoted Matthew 7 which is about hypocritical judgment. Its not a prooftext to say you cant judge people which is what I am assuming you were trying to imply.
"I find it funny that you assume that I don't read scripture."
I told you I was going to copy/paste a reply I had given early to someone who had quoted the same passage so not everything is going to apply specifically to you but either way, maybe you have read scripture but since you used Matt 7 as some kind of prooftext for not being able to judge people, its clear that despite whatever religious studies you have done, you do not understand it. In addition, unless you are born again, you can study the Bible for 50 years inside out and it will not make any sense to you. Matthew 13:11.
"Where in the bible does it say being trans is evil?"
Psalm 139: 13-14. God determines your gender and your gender role. Having surgery to change your gender is sinful. Even if you have not had gender reassignment surgery, cross-dressing is sinful. Deuteronomy 22:5.
If your Father is a minister, you should really consider having a conversation with him. I am sure its no accident that you took interest in this topic not that I am not willing to help you delve into scripture if it so interests you ;)
YIKES,BRO. 🙄
shareHONESTLY...YES TO BOTH UNDER THE CORRECT CIRCUMSTANCES...THIS IS 2022...PEOPLE NEED TO GROW UP A LITTLE BIT.
shareInteresting. Thank you for your input.
shareThe year should not make you feel a certain way.
sharei think this is an issue where we've regressed, quite badly. we're far less serious & way more juvenile, in the way people throw around 'gender is a social construct & separate from biology' & just accept trans identification in kids as if it's the most normal, natural thing.
we've completely abandoned rigor and thoughtfulness on this particular topic imo, & given in to activists.
"There's a difference between hate speech and speech that you hate." - Mediocre rapper that speaks facts Tom MacDonald.
shareyup.
in the 60s everyone was a buddhist for 15 minutes. now everyone is a genderqueer shapeshifter, & they're to be taken just as seriously.
I've heard a few people say that gender is a galaxy. What the hell does that even mean?
sharehere's a genius tweet that was making the rounds yesterday:
https://twitter.com/terrelljstarr/status/1506683514443517959
"I think most men--especially Black men--like me who "come out" later in life is because we don't really know it ourselves. Also, I'm attracted to a wide range of women, but not men at all. So I didn't know how to ID myself--even though I haven't felt "straight" in years. LOL."
pure performance.
It reminds me of some trans people who say some days they feel like a man, other days they feel like a woman. How is that not a mental illness?
shareYES...IT SHOULD...2022... MY DAD AND THE HIPPIES IN THE 60S PREACHED PEACE AND LOVE AND ACCEPTANCE ...50 YEARS LATER AND WE SEEM TO HAVE REGRESSED ON THIS ISSUE.
shareJust because it's 2022, that doesn't mean that any movement is right.
shareACEEPTANCE OF OTHERS DESPITE THEIR DIFFERENCES IS NOT A MOVEMENT.
shareMost people accept trans people, they just don't feel that they really are the gender they say they are and trans people/activists think that it's hate.
shareTHAT IS NOT TRUE...MOST PEOPLE SAY THEY ACCEPT TRANS PEOPLE...THEN THEY FIND AN ANONYMOUS PLACE TO TALK SHIT, MAKE JOKESAND BOND WITH OTHER "ACEPTING FOLKS"..THAT IS HATE.
sharei accept trans people.
i don't accept gender affirming care that seems to be pushing people to transition when in the past the majority of dysphoria cases desisted and the kids (mostly male, mostly identified when very young) grew up to be perfectly happy gay men.
i don't accept gender affirming care for teen girls who in many cases never showed any signs of gender confusion until they suddenly start claiming to be trans in their teen years. there is something new and very different going on there, and we should be very, very worried about that.
you can be accepting of genuine trans cases - those kids need help, for sure - while being really insulted and disturbed by the actions of activists that push those girls into treatments when many of them seem to be going through puberty difficulties, & often mild autism.
i don't particularly respect adult men who transition due to autogynephilia - they are entitled to their kinks, but i don't think i need to show a lot of deference to anyone's extreme sexual fetish.
i don't think a guy with a big old dick & hairy balls should be swimming against women.
i don't respect people who want to put male prisoners in with females in institutions, or let men into women's crisis centres. that shit is wrong.
i think a lot of the ideology being pushed by the trans movement shouldn't be accepted at all. it should be harshly criticized and treated with contempt often.
I AGREE WITH 90% OF WHAT YOU SAID...I STAND BEHIND WHAT I SAID THOUGH.
I ALSO DON'T MIND PEOPLE WHO DO NOT AGREE OR HAVE A DIFFERING OPINION...I DO MIND THE ONES WHO FIND IT IMPOSSIBLE TO SPEAK CALMLY AND SERIOUSLY AND LISTEN AS WELL AS TYPE.
Exactly.
shareThe posts on this site are anything but accepting.
shareWhen these questions arise in my life I always ask “What would Frank do?”
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=dEb7koZafr4
No. I couldn't do it, I prefer a cisgender woman. Trans women usually don't make the transition very smoothly.
But still I maintain the idea that what people identify as is not my business unless they make it so.
norm macdonald on using 'cisgender:'
'it's a way of marginalizing a normal person.'
i hate that stupid word.