Is a child born to a wife where the father of the child is not her husband technically a bastard ? Because you could argue that the child is still born in wedlock.
You'd need a lawyer to answer this one. When a child is born to a married couple, the husband is the putative father. The husband would have to go through some kind of legal proceeding to have himself declared not the father. What happens after that, I don't know.
In any event being a "bastard" doesn't have the social implications that it did 100 years ago.
No I ask because it came up in Episode 4 of Season 2 of ' Upstairs, Downstairs ' (1971-75) where Elizabeth married to Lawrence gets pregnant to Sir Enoch Partridge (or something like that) and Richard when he learns the truth and reprimands Elizabeth calls the child a bastard.
I am rewatching Upstairs, Downstairs at the moment and writing my reviews of each episode as I go along here at the Moviechat Up/Down board if you are interested by the way.
It's out of wedlock because the mother is not married to the father of the child.
shareYes I can see that as a point of fact but technically the wife is actually married. I imagine it's like nyctc7 says and it would have to be proven that the child was not the husbands by a DNA test and then it could be "officially" known as a bastard.
That's part of what I said...a lawyer would have to chime in with advice about this point of law, about what happens when the husband is declared not the father.
Right now I am reviewing the episode. You and I are the resident Upstairs, Downstairs fans here in GD! I will post a little later
Elizabeth wants to end her marriage of less than a year, because her husband, Lawrence, won't have sex with her (it is unclear if he is gay, asexual, or turned off for reasons unknown). Before declaring to her family that she wants to end the marriage, she loses her virginity to Lawrence's publisher, Sir Edwin. This was actually arranged by Lawrence, who is not up to the task himself.
Unfortunately for Elizabeth, in order to have the marriage annulled on grounds of impotence of the husband, she must submit to a medical exam to prove she is a virgin (she not being fully aware of the reasons and consequences of said exam). To the horror of her parents, she is pregnant!
Richard (father of Elizabeth): "You realize what you've done, don't you? You've made it impossible for for us to get your marriage annulled...your mockery of a marriage must go on, you must face the world as the proud parents of a bastard!"
Comment: Richard is not a lawyer. He meant that the marriage must go on so that society doesn't know what happened and the child will be legitimate, because the child of a marriage is presumed to be legitimate. As you know, they pay off Lawrence to keep his mouth shut, and a separation is arranged by the family lawyer. In the series, all we know is that later, Elizabeth moves to America and remarries there. We never see her again after she moves. It is never explained how she got divorced from Lawrence, though in the novelizations IIRC she goes to Reno, Nevada, once known as the divorce capital of the world, to get her divorce. The child is thus legitimate in the eyes of the law because Lawrence never denied paternity.
Ah you are quoting from the transcripts, very good ! It was interesting that the scales finally fell from Richard's eyes and he saw Elizabeth for what she was rather than the idealized image he had of her as his darling daughter. Just as well he didn't see her ripping into Rose most disgracefully or he might have turned Elizabeth out of the house ! And it was Lady Marjorie who forgave Elizabeth unconditionally and gave her the comfort she didn't deserve the little baggage !
Lawrence was a peculiar sort of character that didn't make a lot of sense to me. On face value it seemed clear that he was a homosexual as his behaviour towards Thomas and his inability to have sex with Elizabeth would seem to indicate. But if he was part of the Bloomsbury set surely he would have been in company with other homosexuals and have sorted himself out somewhat long before he got to Elizabeth. As it was his character was played as though he was unconscious of his own sexuality.
Yes. He would be a bastard, because his parents are not married to one another.
The law doesn't matter. A bastard is a bastard regardless of state edict.
See OratiaGlake's post below. It quotes from a U.K. government website that the child of an unmarried couple is not necessarily a 'bastard'
"A 'bastard child' is one born as a result of an illegal relationship such as an incestuous union or a relationship between man and a married woman."
However, some dictionaries define bastard as "a person born of unmarried parents." so there is something to be said for your point about law vs custom.
A bastard shall not enter into the congregation of the Lord; even to his tenth generation shall he not enter into the congregation of the Lord. -- Deuteronomy 23:2
So, all you bastards, and all you children of bastards, even great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great grandchildren of bastards ... stay the hell out of church! Clear out! We're wise to you, you're not gonna get away with it!
OK you bastards and sons of bitches!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5tp6oe04pMc
It definitely rules me out. One of my ancestors, a great-great-grandmother, was a bastard.
That chapter has all sorts of wonderful things in it. Here's the verse immediately before that one:
He that is wounded in the stones, or hath his privy member cut off, shall not enter into the congregation of the Lord. -- Deuteronomy 23:1
OK, new policy at the church! All males entering must go through an anteroom for what the Navy calls "short arm inspection."
I've read about a case like this years ago. The wife cheated on her husband and became pregnant by her lover. The husband found out the truth, but was required to pay child support anyway since he was married to her therefore considered the legal father. I'm going to assume the child is considered legitimate since his parents were wed.
There are married couples who use someone else's sperm or egg to have a baby. It's considered their baby and legitimate.
BTW, different laws in each state and country.
I’d say ‘illegitimate’ is the term best fitting, because that can encompass children begotten out of wedlock as well as when a wife has a child that is not her husband’s.
Although this is quite interesting (from the U.K. government):
The 'lawful child' which includes a child born in wedlock and a child born to a couple neither of whom have been married. A 'bastard child' is one born as a result of an illegal relationship such as an incestuous union or a relationship between man and a married woman.
That is interesting...because so many unmarried couples have children, it doesn't make sense to term them all bastards.
"neither of whom have been married"...but what about a couple where one or both are divorced from previous marriages? That would seem to be the same as never been married, that is, a child born of the two is 'lawful'
This also answers the OP's question, in his scenario the child is...wait for it...A FILTHY BASTARD!!