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Is our appetite for fantasy an indication of alienation


Does the juvenilization, if that is a word, of broad taste in the market indicate a debasement in our culture generally - what does it mean to you ?

I would say at least half of what is on Netflix now is based upon wish-fulfillment, fantasy, dystopia, hip-hop superman/superwoman/supervillain culture.

seems like we're in a headlong rush away from the drama of the everyday - not that crafting powerful stories of the everyday is necessarily easy, but there used to be a lot more of it.

that has to mean something.

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For me personally, I prefer my entertainment of the fantastical variety. Everyday drama is what real life is for, so that's where I get my fill of that.

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Exactly.

"Everyday drama" was something quite different, once upon a time. Modern life drama is a bitter drink. We seem to have institutionalized the drama-queen effect. Can there be good modern drama? Yes. Does anyone do it without some message/drum-beat? Few.

Thanks but you can have it. I'll just be a juvenile and watch high adventure with the pew pew violence.

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Admit it, you watch This Is Us every week with a box of tissues close at hand. It's quite heartfelt, no?

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Yes but no tissues. I wear a snot bib and let it bubble and sputter while I have a good cry over sophisticated, adult, proper drama that we should all be more attentive toward instead of our stupid kid stuff and our ""fabricated stories about groundbreaking events that never really took place""

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This is an interesting question you pose. I often wonder if all these fantasy / superhero movies are an acknowledgment that the West can no longer achieve grand things in real life so our movies have to fictionalize such accomplishments. I got this sense from movies like the Martian or One Night in Miami; fabricated stories about groundbreaking events that never really took place

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Yeah. Just like 2001 A Space Odyssey. We had to pretend that stuff since we weren't in the middle of the groundbreaking space program ... oh wait. Maybe one of the other thousands of "groundbreaking events that never really took place" that occur in movies and TV over the last 70 years is a better example of how we ... mmmm, nah.

Sophistry.

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You make a good point about space. A more modern example is the recent American Nasa landing on Mars. There was also the American landmark vaccine for COVID. Maybe I was being a little overly pessimistic.

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we haven't built a panama canal in a long while, that's for sure. our greatest accomplishments are now technological, not great earth moving/shaking projects. we've also lost the last three major wars we embarked upon.

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Yes our INFRASTRUCTURE (roads, bridges, airports, railway systems, ELECTRICAL GRIDS, etc.) is also falling apart and is PRIMITIVE now in comparison to other countries who have high speed railway systems and much more modernized airports.

Plus they're also using more GREEN ENERGY than we do (WINDFARMS, SOLAR), which also means the US is going to end up being another 3rd WORLD country if it continues to keep going in the direction we're heading. And with so many RIGHT WING REPUBLICANS who deny that CLIMATE CHANGE exists, the US probably also isn't going to pass much INFRASTUCTURE legislation that will change the direction of our DECLINE.

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Although the modernist architectural approach may, at times, be groundbreaking, its proliferation has interesting meaning. In 1950s, a shift in form over function occurred in the United States. This was marked initially by the construction of the Lake Shore apartments in 1951 and Lever house in 1952. In 1969, Lundy’s modernist manifestation of the U.S. Tax Court, followed by the Federal Courthouse in Pennsylvania in 1975. Perhaps the most representative piece of architecture cementing this new preference of aesthetic was the Twin Towers. The tallest skyscraper upon its completion, its main utility was seen as a landmark holding cultural significance of America’s apex, yet offering limited functional purpose.

“Once civilization reaches its zenith, it has already begun its decline” (Gimpel, 1956, my translation). In the years and decades following the construction of the Twin Towers, America saw eight economic recessions, an inversion of artistic expression where the extreme of form over function reaches its logical end (e.g., selling invisible artwork), crumbling infrastructure, dwindling investment in human capital, and generalized cultural degradation. This loss in form, cohesion, and structure sees a sharp turn from the mindset of early American pioneers, who escaped European aristocracy in an attempt to find meaning through the Protestant Work Ethic, temperance, and diligence. The European aristocrat, through years of comfort, became decrepit, preferring leisure and privilege over work and form, and although the Prussian and Anglo aristocrat may have attempted to reform government and build a better society, inevitably their children adopted the same European principles that led to decline (e.g., Barry Lyndon).

With the rise in modern consumerism, work and disciple no longer became the highest virtues, they were replaced with comfort and delectation.

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One of the points marking the end of modernism was the stagnation and invariable halt of progress in the fundamental sciences, primarily physics. After WWI, the world saw the development of quantum mechanics (1920s), nuclear physics (nuclear fusion around 1933), and the theory of relativity (acceptance in 1920s), which led to breakthroughs in atomic physics and the aforementioned fields. Since that time, the form of development has shifted from fundamental science toward technical science. The transition from the fourth wave of innovation (mass production) into the fifth wave of innovation (information) brought about an interesting change, where with the advent and iterative development of the internet, the offline world began servicing the online world.

Although I responded to a user in a different thread with the following, I believe it bears relevance.

In the 20th century, the United States stood at the center of serviceable innovation, taking over the 19th century baton from England and Germany. Of note in this time, we saw the U.S. commercialize the car, invent microprocessors for domiciliary computing, and create the online world with the internet. According Jeanette Gimpel, the turning point in technological sentiment changed in 1971, with Congress refusing to fund supersonic flight. With the Vietnam war and counter-culture, America saw its psychological drive wane, no longer seeing itself as exceptional or unique, and susceptible to the same collapse as empires preceding it. Such questions were asked in 1975, when a selection of US historians wondered whether or not America was on the same trajectory as Rome.

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With the prior POTUS who was (and still is) as CORRUPT as any other ROMAN EMPEROR, I'd say the TRAJECTORY THEORY you've mentioned could definitely hold some validity.

And prior to that we had the WATERGATE SCANDAL involving TRICKY DICK NIXON (who also CHEATED on his INCOME TAXES the same way as the more recent SCAM MAN who also ran the FAKE CHARITY and the FAKE UNIVERSITY has done).

Then came IRANGATE and the selling ARMS and DRUGS for the return of HOSTAGES.

And the SUPREME COURT and the rest of the COURTS all also packed now with RIGHT WING EXTREMIST, making it that much more likely that the US is heading in the same direction as ANCIENT ROME.

Here's a VIDEO that explains other FINANCIAL reasons for our DECLINE (which DYLAN RADIGAN also blames on "GREEDY BASTARDS" stashing away their CASH in places like the CAYMAN ISLANDS and SWISS BANK ACCOUNTS):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gIcqb9hHQ3E&t=1s

Dylan Ratigan (rightfully) loses it on air

Also NOTE the way this was also 10 YEARS ago and how NOTHING whatsoever has been done to "REPATRIATE that OFF SHORE MONEY" that the RICH PEOPLE have been HIDING OFF SHORE, or do anything else to change what he's complaining about.

What happens instead is we get that DEBATE between the SCAM MAN and HILLARY where she complains about him CHEATING on his TAXES and him BRAGGING ABOUT how doing so MADE HIM SMART.

🙄



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Here's how one person describes it:

http://www.eajournals.org/wp-content/uploads/Theme-of-Alienation-in-Modern-Literature.pdf

The alienated protagonist is a recurrent figure in much of the twentieth century
American and European fiction. Alienation in its various forms, has been dealt with in the
existentialistic literature. Owing to its historical and socio-cultural reasons, the Indo-English
literature also, could not remain unaffected by it. Alienation is the result of loss of identity. The
dispossessed personality's search for identity is a common place theme in modern fiction. Man
fails to perceive today the very purpose behind life and the relevance of his existence in a hostile
world. Edmund Fuller remarks that in our age “man suffers not only from war, persecution,
famine and ruin, but from inner problems --------- a conviction of isolation, randomness,
meaninglessness in his way of existence ".


But can't you also describe SHAKESPEARE's "HAMLET" and/or his "KING LEAR" in the same way??? Or what about OEDIPUS REX which is an ANCIENT GREEK play??? Didn't those characters also deal with a LOSS of IDENTITY for one reason or another???

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super-hero movies are probably associated w/ alienation, but alienation can take many forms, artistically, culturally, psychologically.

shakespeare's greatest plays, i agree, were all about alienation. they were the fount of the drama. what he found interesting weren't the great villains, but the process of reaction of those infringed upon by them, including their shock & bewilderment.

super-villains, otoh, are mere super-egos wrapped up in faux branded simulacrums of identity. they are costume-wearers.

not much of the same thing. one appeals to the child in us, the other more to the thinking/feeling/experiencing/reacting adult, or young adult.

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Yes, and that's why GLOBALIZATION was mentioned, because the VIEWING AUDIENCE on a WORLDWIDE scale is also less mature in their VIEWING TASTE than certain other pockets of it that prefer to watch a more MATURE type of DRAMA (like HAMLET or KING LEAR).

PLUS the age of the typical person who goes to watch a film in a theatre here in the US is also in the TEENAGE to 25 yr old range (which also means MOST of those viewers are also not as MATURE as they use to be before PAY PER VIEW and VIDEO and DVD's ETC. became a way to watch a film).

So that also plays a part in the reason why the MARKET now directs what it produces at that less mature demographic.

In other words, when children and young adults make up MOST of the VIEWING AUDIENCE who purchase TICKETS, you're also going to keep having COMIC BOOK SUPER HERO FILMS produced.

Because they simply also MAKE the MOST MONEY for whoever produces them.

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In most societies, maturity is often linked to a rite of passage where the kid becomes a man. And by becoming a man, he becomes a full member of the community. He acquires rights and he's charged with responsibilities. Sacrifices and rewards, both sides of the same coin.

Well, not anymore.

In modern western society, rights are not linked to responsibilities anymore. Everybody has every right, so there's no reward in taking responsibilities or making sacrifices anymore. But hey: if you're a white male, you're likely to be demonized.

Put yourself in the shoes of a young man nowadays. What the society offers to him? Man up! Get a job, marry and have children! And what's gonna be your reward? Well, if your wife decides to look for fresh cocks (and according to statistics chances are that will happen) you'll become nothing but an abused ATM, while the media reminds you that as a white male, you're evil and despicable. And don't dare to complain! That's your reward. Sounds great, doesn't it?

People don't want to grow up because there's zero incentives to grow up.

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So what you're saying is THE WHITE MALE is ALIENATED or has LOST his SENSE of IDENTITY.

Right?

Very much like KAFKA's character did when he went from being a BREADWINNER (another form of an ATM) for his family to an INSECT when he turns into a COCKROACH???

And after that happens the other members of the family also found jobs and other ways to support themselves, and then they were also better off and didn't need him anymore???

So isn't what you're essentially saying is that you don't like NOT being NEEDED by other people anymore who are DEPENDENT UPON YOU???

Whereas others would probably also REJOICE at being SET FREE of having others who DEPEND upon them to be an ATM for them???

📌

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the desire to be needed is not, i don't think, pernicious. actually sort of natural.

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Then why did so many MALES who were ORDERED by a COURT to PAY CHILD SUPPORT FLEA to another STATE in an effort to try to AVOID having to PAY IT???

They were given the label of being DEAD BEAT DADS, due to the way they refused to take FINANCIAL RESPONSIBILITY for SUPPORTING their children the way that this other poster claims they can't do anymore (which is NOT TRUE).

So if it's NATURAL as you say to want to be NEEDED (or be an ATM MACHINE as the poster puts it), then why do so many of these DEAD BEAT DAD types do whatever they can to refuse to SUPPORT the children they produce???

Apparently it's NOT NATURAL to be needed, or else they'd obviously also help the children who NEED their SUPPORT.

Right???

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Always enjoy reading your posts, very consistent point of view.

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Thanks.

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wow, you spotted a chance to lament the persecution of the white male where most wouldnt think it could be found and BAM went for it!

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Well, my explanation fits the state of the real world. If you check movies aimed to black people in western countries, they're usually urban thriller, urban drama o gangsta style. The popularity of genres traditionally aimed towards kids in western countries is mostly a white thing.

Of course, that's the case provided we're talking about western society. We could be doing a similar analysis when it comes the current state of Japanese males in their 20s and 30s, the popularity of isekai and the rise of the hikikomori phenomenon, which probably is one of the reasons of how hostile China is to western influence. But that was not the topic in this thread.

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The word you're looking for is escapism, and getting involved in the trivial problems of some fictional society so that we can forget our own is what fantasy is here for.

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Escapism is a way of refocusing one’s attention on pleasant or enjoyable things, as opposed to the hard realities of the everyday world. It can be a healthy means for not getting completely depressed by reality, or in extreme forms, can result in obsessive behaviors that make people completely ignore reality to their detriment.


https://www.infobloom.com/what-is-escapism.htm

Yes ESCAPISM sounds like a much better way to describe all of these NON STOP COMIC BOOK HERO FILMS that keep getting produced.

And GLOBALISM also has something to do with it, because now HOLLYWOOD also has to MASS PRODUCE stories for other cultures that aren't quite as SOPHISTICATED in their taste as some of the rest of VIEWERS are (or who USE to be once upon a time not that long ago).

During the GREAT DEPRESSION ERA HOLLYWOOD also churned out lots of GLOSSY MUSICAL NUMBERS that were full of FANTASY as a way to keep the hungry masses entertained (sort of like the BREAD & CIRCUS situation was in ANCIENT ROME).

But the onslaught of COMIC BOOK HERO stuff also began BEFORE the PANDEMIC hit us.





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interesting responses. i would respond that escapism is itself an aspect of immaturity. i don't expect all/most/many to agree with me.

not saying there isn't a place for fantasy - i enjoy it myself. but not as the predominating art form, which it seems to be becoming, at least here in the US.

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Dissociative trends and escapism are usually an indicator for growing (subjective(!)) insecurity.

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that seems reasonable. or dissatisfaction.

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i don't like fantasy movies at all.

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