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True or False? "People leave bad bosses/coworkers not bad jobs."


Well?

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What about people who leave from other co-workers (besides management?)

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I've updated and edited my title.

I'd rather have low pay and great working culture rather than high pay and poor morale.

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Dammit! Lost my chance to make a "smart" remark....

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Have you been in a toxic work environment before? I have and quit after only a month. It was horrible. Fortunately, my old boss took me back.

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Nah. I've just had jobs I wasn't a good fit for in my opinion. I left because I knew my skills weren't up to their standards.

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One job seemed to expect me to have the strength of a yeoman and the skill of an accountant and the people smarts of a pastor. In essence, do the work of at least 1 and 1/2 people if not 2. It was ridiculous and overwhelming and the last person who had the job said as much. I was willing to work through breaks and stay on my feet the whole day, but it was impossible to keep up and everyone was willfully oblivious to it. As always, I would have been happy to do everything in my power to help a place run smoothly and be responsible for my work, but sometimes things are so incompetently run it's impossible to make it work.

I always think of Lucy and Ethel at the chocolate factory. Give people an impossible task and blame them for mucking it up.

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I left several for bad pay

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I left a job after 12 years because of a bad boss and the company went woke back in 2010. They went woke when woke wasn’t cool.

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> the company went woke back in 2010. They went woke when woke wasn’t cool.

The problem has been around for quite a while. I was with a company in the mid-1990s that had very good people working for it. The company suddenly got a diversity craze. If they had simply considered race in hiring and maintained high standards that would have been fine, but no. They were grabbing anyone they could scrape up in order to be diverse. Two were especially bad. One was a duplicitous woman who lied, tried to steal credit for others' ideas, and generally schemed. The other was a man who seemed to think his main job was schmoozing his fellow employees. I wondered how much actual, honest work those two ever got done.

Around that time I got the opportunity to go self-employed, which I had already wanted to do for a long time, so I did it. But even if that hadn't happened, I think I would have left anyway. Being in a bad work environment is depressing enough, but even more so when the place used to be a good one.

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Something along those same lines is what my company evolved into also. They were doing some things that would make most people shake their heads. I felt like I couldn’t even be myself any longer and after being miserable for a couple of years I said bye.

I promised myself I would never work anywhere that I couldn’t say what I actually thought, and I haven’t. Since then I’m much happier and healthier.

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I never found out exactly what happened at my former employer, but I got the impression that a command had come from on high -- diversity now! Not next year, but now! Not next month, but now! It was as if some emergency had arisen and a quota had to be filled as soon as possible.

The company had several branches, and the one I worked at was in Washington, DC. Had they contracted for the federal government it would have been explainable. When I went self-employed, my first client was a company that had a federal contract. I was a sub-contractor on that project, and as such I had to do the paperwork showing that my corporation met the requirements to qualify for government work. There was a questionnaire, about sixty pages (no joke!) to fill out, including items asking what percentage of my work force were minorities and other such things. That just scratches the surface, the legal requirements for doing government work can be pretty intense.

There was another man working on the project who was in a similar situation as me; he was also self-employed, had set up his own small corporation, and was a subcontractor as I was. He and I commiserated about the ridiculous questionnaire. He hired a lawyer to fill the thing out, and I don't even want to guess at how much he had to pay. I just drafted a statement saying, "I am the only employee of my corporation. I do not anticipate hiring additional employees in the near future. I do not advertise. [etc]" I attached that to the questionnaire. Then in the questionnaire itself, on item after item, I wrote, "See attached appendix." I figured I'd take my chances and try that first before hiring legal help. After I turned the thing in, I never heard anything about it. I seriously doubt anyone ever looked at the thing, it just got filed away somewhere.

So, had my former employer been doing government work it might have been understandable. But as a matter of policy they refused government work precisely because of the complications and legal expense. And they weren't being sued or anything, and as far as I could tell were in no danger of being sued or undergoing some other imminent crisis. The CEO and a couple of the other high executives were of the 1960s generation, college students at the time of Woodstock and Kent State. The scuttlebutt in the company was that board meetings were conducted with a lit bong passed around the room. I really think they just had a sudden flash of collective liberal guilt and went wacko.

It also led to an ugly situation with two other employees, Don and Paul. They had worked closely together on a project, were both sharp as hell, and had become good friends. Don was black and Paul was white. The two aforementioned fools, the schemer and the schmoozer, were both black. Paul quite openly treated them as fools because they were fools.

Well, of course, they started a whispering campaign that Paul was racist. They managed to push it to the point where the rumors were getting some real traction. Don put a stop to it. He stood up in an office meeting, looked the office manager, a VP, right in the eye, and gave it to her with both barrels. He said that she knew Paul well enough to know the rumors were horseshit, should have put a stop to the rumors but hadn't, so he was going to do her job for her. He said Paul was one of the finest people he had ever known and perhaps the least racist person he'd ever met in his life, and that the only thing he was prejudiced against was incompetence. He also said that the sudden diversity surge was a fucking embarrassment (direct quote), and that he'd repeat everything he had just said to anyone who wanted to know, including members of the press.

That got Paul off the hook. Like me, they both left the company soon after. The company went out of business a couple of years later.

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I had the opposite situation where we all were working fairly harmoniously until the Boss started watching Fox/Pox News and became negative about everything he saw around him. Imo, these people bitch and bitch to everyone within earshot about crap that should have absolutely no relation to their own life, just to bring down the general atmosphere to their liking.
Let's all get Rich AND avoid paying taxes. Who cares about other people's problems, I need a new car and boat. I'm supporting the economy!

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It does work both ways. I always made it a policy to leave my personal problems, politics, religion, and a lot of other things out in the parking lot when I arrived at work. Some people don't, though.

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I could see a boss like that making a workplace more toxic. In my case the same thing happened to your boss happened to my father. Though aging, he's doing good for his age and should be a poster-child for happy retirement in one's golden years. Why squander all that by being bitter and negative about every thing and every body who isn't just like you?

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It doesn't have to be a boss, although that makes it worse. At one place I worked, there was a secretary who didn't leave her personal life at the door. If she had a fight with her boyfriend, by 10 AM everyone in the office knew it. If something else had gone wrong, by 10 AM everyone knew it. A real drama queen. I couldn't stand her.

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There are other reasons. I left a job once because I had already mastered in then put in several years afterward. It was clear that as long as I stayed there, I would be doing the same thing, working for the same boss, adding no new skills. It was time to move on, and I felt I had already repaid the company's investment in me, so I left.

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No one wants to be a fluffer.

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Says you!

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I'm in if you're in.

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I've only ever left jobs for better pay elsewhere

I'm not exactly in love with my current job but I can and will walk away in under 7 years...I'll miss my work friends though

I'm not sure too many people actually like their jobs, it's an interesting conversation to have though

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My take is US Work Culture is way behind the curve in realizing how Bosses affect the Culture of the workplace.
They should understand Work is not about their own personal interests, how well their football team is doing that week, if they aren't getting laid enough, their massive stock portfolio has taken a poor turn.
If the Boss is in a perennially crappy mood, the workplace is going to suffer, and the cause-and-effect continues to roll downhill. People who can't be positive and supportive shouldn't be bosses, just as with being a parent.

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This!

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For me, I've left jobs because of bosses.

But when I found my own business, I want people who can put up with a boss who pushes them and expects a lot.

If I'm paying someone to work, they will turn up on time, keep chit chat to a minimum and keep their private lives to themselves.

That's not a workplace for some. They want to be part of a "family", but I want a team who are there to work hard and hit home runs.

For me, working with lazy assholes who run down the job, the company, bosses or other workers are toxic.

I don't want them.

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> But when I found my own business, I want people who can put up with a boss who pushes them and expects a lot.

Then you need to study how good bosses motivate their people. There's a real art to it.

There are a gazllion different books out there on how to be a good boss. Before I started my own business I had supervised people, and when I started to do that I read some of them. A lot of people think The One Minute Manager is good, but I wasn't that impressed with it. It's probably dated, too -- I haven't looked at it in a long time, but IIRC it gives advice like putting a reassuring hand on a person's shoulder at certain times, things that wouldn't work today.

A book I did particularly like was this one:

https://www.amazon.com/fatal-errors-managers-make-avoid/dp/0425096440

I figure such books are worth the effort of reading if I get just one good idea or insight out of them. Brown's book passed that test easily. He does take being a manager a little too seriously, as if it were a holy calling instead of a leadership position. And he did advocate one practice I disagree with. He'd hold Saturday morning team meetings which were not mandatory and tell his subordinates that they didn't have to attend and it wouldn't be held against them if they were absent, but he wanted them to be there -- then he'd favor the ones who regularly attended in pay raises and such for being more motivated. It smacked of the way a parent might tell a child, "you don't have to go to church with us, but we really wish you would." No, your employees aren't children, they're adults. Treat them that way.

Otherwise it's an excellent book. I'll pass on one powerful piece of advice he gives that I've used over the years. Never do something with a subordinate that you wouldn't do with your company's most important client. That's helped me many times when I wondered if I was being too familiar, not friendly enough, confiding things that were too personal, et cetera. It clarifies such questions instantly, at least for me.

Finally, a sense of humor is helpful. I got my first supervisory position when the supervisor of our team of fourteen people left for a position elsewhere. I was promoted to replace him, so everyone on my team already knew me well. When the office head, my old boss's boss who was now my boss, called the team together to announce my promotion, I carried a book in a paper bag into the meeting. I told my new subordinates that it was my first time supervising people, that I had been reading a lot about it, and that I was confident I could do the job well because I had found a very exceptional book. Anyone wanting to learn to manage people need look no further, I said, and I recommended that they buy copies so they'd understand my style of management. Then I pulled the book out of the bag and showed it to them.

https://tinyurl.com/5kxyhhuy

That's actually a decent book, although the title makes it worth the money for the shock value alone.

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Management is tough, so you gotta make sure you hire people who will gel with your company and management style.

If you step into a management role for people you didn't hire, youve got your work cut out for you.

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