Today is October 14, US Indigenous People's Day, aka Columbus Day.
The Taíno People went extinct as a result of meeting Columbus. I just wanted to post a thread of remembrance. RIP.
"They are very gentle and without knowledge of what is evil; nor do they murder or steal."
- Christopher Columbus
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Jane Yolen wrote a very fine YA novel called 'Encounter' about this world changing event...told from a young Taino man's perspective it relates the nature of Columbus's attitude towards the native people he encountered...Columbus was not a great guy:/
sharePerhaps neither were the people he encountered...?
Direct quote from his diary, Columbus wrote:
They traded with us and gave us everything they had, with good will ... they took great delight in pleasing us ... They are very gentle and without knowledge of what is evil; nor do they murder or steal...Your highness may believe that in all the world there can be no better people ... They love their neighbours as themselves, and they have the sweetest talk in the world, and are gentle and always laughing.
You can find exactly the same kinds of reports about the Australian Aborigines. You can also read accounts of them killing white women and children, being untrustworthy and warnings to never turn your back on them.
The Beothuks were wiped out in Eastern Canada mostly by disease.
shareDisease form Europeans. Also slaughter and starvation after they were forced from their land.
shareThe Native Americans and Canadians also killed and enslaved one another. They were human and imperfect.
shareEither way those people are all dead, long gone and past caring now. People who still make a fuss about it are using guilt over something that didn't happen to them for their own gain or are SJW drama queens.
I tend to agree. My mother's ancestors (Irish) were treated terribly by my father's (English) but somehow they managed to move on.
shareMy ancestry is two thirds Irish as well. One of the things about doing your ancestry is that you learn just how difficult people's lives were back then. They routinely died in infancy, in childhood, in early adulthood and at any time thereafter through diseases and accidents. Families were torn apart when the mother died in childbirth and her children were handed off to others. This is what happened to my maternal grandmother and I never knew anything about it.
What you learn is that life was a very serious business back in those days and most everyone was doing it mighty tough by today's standards. And these SJW ignoramuses have the gall to make "moral" judgements about people and times they know next to nothing about.
My mother's people got to Newfoundland during one of the potato famines and my father's were fisherman who decided to settle year round. Newfoundland has a harsh climate and land. There is a reason they call it The Rock. There was no pot of gold waiting for my ancestors when they arrived.
shareMy ancestors came to Victoria from 1840 and onwards so there were actually pots of gold waiting. But the only one of them I know for sure who went looking for his pot of gold was killed in a mine cave-in at the age of twenty six. He left his wife with a two year old and with another baby on the way.
But apart from the usual tales of woe my ancestors were fortunate to come here. The gold rush meant that there was plenty of money sloshing around in Victoria and lots of good farming land to work for the new settlers as well.
The "gold" off the coast of Newfoundland was cod fish. Hard to believe.
shareEmilia Clarke - Fisherman's Blues
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_eyTT-fzI_M
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vyHJ7XU5eLE&t=60s
shareOld timey music. You might enjoy Elizabeth LaPrelle from West Virginia. She sings the old time songs very well and has quite a few of them on Youtube.
Yet here you are because your ethnic group did not die from genocide. Big difference!
shareAs it happens my four times great grandmother was a Cree Indian woman so they are part of my ethnic group. So not such a big difference...
The Cree still exist. It's common for the conquerors of a people to have some ancestry of those who were conquered.
There are degrees of cruelty. What happened to the Arawak at the hands of Columbus was an extreme barbarism as were what happened to the Jews during the Holocaust.
Columbus chopped off both hands of Arawak who couldn't meet his gold mining quota. Their was mass malnutrition because they could no longer devote time to farming. Columbus bragged about money he made from selling thirteen-year old girls as sex slaves. From 1-3 million Arawak in 1496 to 12,000 in 1516 to finally 0 in 1555. Tragic.
"Those who do not remember the past are doomed to repeat it." – George Santayana
shareYou really don't learn anything do you ?
The Europeans killed plenty of other European as well. In fact, just recently as the 1990s.
shareLook at the slaughter that has begun to the Kurdish. The U.S. news censored the atrocities and most people are watching a sanitized version. I've been watching foreign news.
BTW, Columbus Day was first celebrated as a national holiday after the lynchings of eleven Italian men in New Orleans in the late 1800s. Back then lynching of Italians, especially Sicilians, were common in the U.S..
Verrazzano, Galileo, DaVinci or the creator of modern pizza would be better Italian candidates for a holiday.
I respectfully disagree
We should acknowledge the crimes and horrors of the past so we can avoid causing them in the future
I'm as sick and tired of the SJW movement as anybody but they have raised some good points...watch your opposite number and open your mind...they may teach us something
Columbus seems to have been a top shelf asshole...slavery was just his opening act
I equally respectfully disagree with your disagreement. If you can tell me of a country that has never been tainted by slavery maybe we could all move there. And if Columbus was an asshole he was only one asshole. And if people are so repulsed by Western Civilization they can always go to some other country less influenced by it like say China. But somehow I don't think there would be many SJW's doing that.
I respectfully accept your respectful disagreement to my respectful disagreement;)
That's the whole point of studying history for me...pretty much every group has had a 'shithead era...'
Even the lovely Tainos were in a constant state of war with their nearby island neighbors pre contact
I KNOW that we can do better, and we will!
Lessons to be learned here;
* lazily living in paradise without advancing yourself is dangerous.
* just because you don't advance it doesn't mean others won't.
* if stange people appear on your doorstep do kill them before they kill you.
* being peaceful is stoopid.
Columbus didn't "discover" this country. Indigenous People were here hundreds maybe thousands of years before Columbus set foot on this country.
shareIt doesn't count if you don't report back!
shareWhat do you mean by "report back"?
shareReport back home that you've discovered new land, of course!
shareGot it! Thank you.
shareColumbus never came to North America.
Vikings were first Europeans to visit the east coast of North America in the 10th century, centuries before Columbus was born.
Of course, Native Americans reported back their discovery of the Americas. That's why millions joined them in their journey to the New World 20,000 years earlier. There is also physical evidence that they also traded with different peoples from around the world.
The Vikings landed in my home province
https://www.cbc.ca/kidscbc2/the-feed/newfoundlands-first-viking-settlement-lanse-aux-meadows
How picturesque! It would be interesting to find out why they left. Too cold?
shareI don't think it was any colder than Scandinavia or Greenland. We will never know why they left. Archeologists are still digging out there to try and discover more about the Vikings.
share"Archaeologists have found evidence of five different Indigenous groups having been in the area before the Vikings, and at least one group after the Vikings were gone."
People continued leaving or dying out there.
Columbus discovered the continent and reported back. We've got no recorded evidence the Vikings reported back.
You've got no evidence whatsoever any Native Americans reported back either.
Columbus did NOT discover the continent of North America. He went to a few islands in the Caribbean and South and Central America. He was also arrested because of his atrocities.
Norse Viking Leif Eriksson landed in present-day Newfoundland around 1000 A.D.
Great news! I discovered Canada!!!! I'm reporting back now! Soon I expect to have a Keekai Day celebrating my important discovery of the newest world!!
How many times do I need to emphasize that no one before Columbus reported back what they'd discovered? Thanks to Columbus the rest of the world become aware of the existence of the continent.
Yeah, you just go and discover Canada. Maybe you'll find some pitch black Ancient Egyptians while you're at it.🙄
Nice to know more Americans are celebrating Indigenous Peoples' Day instead of a Columbus myth.
Your repeating stupidity doesn't change it into a fact. You're so ignorant that you believe Columbus was in North America.
I see you're making things up again. Not once did I say Columbus was in North America.
Yeah sure, more and more people are wishing each other a "Happy Indigenous Peoples' Day!" Lol, you're stupid, ignorant AND delusional...
Your weak retraction is NOT accepted. You know zip about history. Columbus had nothing to do with the U.S. therefore there's no reason to observe Columbus Day.
shareAgain you're making up things. There was no retraction on my part. None whatsoever.
Columbus discovered the continent of America, if the US (a country on that continent) wants to celebrate that occassion, it has every right to do so.
There is no "continent of America".
He went to Central and South America which already had millions of inhabitants. It's not possible to discover a place already inhabited by millions unless you agree to celebrate Keelai Day since I insist that I discovered Canada. He never stepped foot on North America therefore he's irrelevant in the U.S.
Why are you into celebrating a child sex trafficker? Very creepy!
Semantics. In the 4-and 5- continents model the "Americas" are one continent. And Columbus also discovered the Bahamas and Cuba which are in NORTH America (Central America is NOT a continent).
None of the people living there reported the discovery of this new land. We all knew about Canada before a moron like you set foot there.
I'm not American, so I don't celebrate Columbus day. A better question would be, how come you're still alive? You seem too stupid to breathe.
The difference between Columbus and the Vikings was that Columbus reported in Spain (and in Europe) was he found sailing to the west, the Vikings did not.
shareThat's what I said. Columbus reported back, the Vikings did not. Therefore, the rest of the world was none the wiser.
shareThat's dumb. Leif Erikson owned an estate and had returned to it. Of course, he told other people or nobody would know his name. His voyagesare detailed in two sagas, "Saga of Erik the Red" and "Saga of the Greenlanders".
Anyway, discounting millions of Native Americans is racist.
Saga means that we don't know what's fact or fiction. You are a fool to just accept that as fact. Besides, it wasn't known until much, much later that the land they discovered was probably North America.
You can only talk shit about white people, it's obvious YOU are the racist here.
Obviously, you're losing this argument since you need to resort to ad hominem.
Leif Erikson was white. It's sad that you feel the need to defend a child sex trafficker. Do you want a Hitler Day too?
Obviously, you know nothing about Italian-American history or you'd know they were discriminated and lynched by bigoted whites which is the main reason why they wanted a Columbus Day.
Hitler was a child sex trafficker!? I had no idea he was such a terrible person...
"Obviously, you're losing this argument since you need to resort to ad hominem."
Now that's hilarious coming from someone who called me stupid, ignorant and implied that I'm a racist who celebrates child sex traffickers. You are truly one of the biggest idiots I've encountered here on moviechat.
Italians ARE white, by the way, but you using discrimination against them as some kind of argument against Columbus days once again confirms what an idiot you are.
You know nothing about Italians or Italian history. They were brought to the US. as cheap labor to replace black labor after slavery ended. Many blacks left the South for new opportunities. Italians, especially Sicilians, were discriminated and disparaged by whites. Italians were lynched in large numbers in the U.S.
Columbus Day was celebrated as a national holiday for the first time after eleven Italians (ten Sicilians) were lynched in New Orleans. Italy's leader was furious and recalled diplomats. The American president proclaimed Columbus Day as a way to smooth things over and diminish anti-Italian bigotry. It was only a one year national holiday at that time though. Immigration laws also discriminated against Italians until the early 60s.
WASPs have always had a pecking order in which other whites were treated inferior. Trump's father was in the KKK and marched against Irish Catholics. Italians, Germans, Jews, Polish, etc. were discriminated and despised in the U.S.. Now, white Hispanics are treated that way.
The Moors invaded Italy in 700 a.d. so Sicilians have black ancestry which is why other Italians and WASPs treated them the worst even though all Italians were disparaged by WASPs.
Last week, NY Gov. Cuomo discussed anti-Italian bigotry and how they were called the N-word along with other insults. I know Sicilians who confirmed this.
https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2019/10/andrew-cuomo-n-word-radio.html
There are plenty of Italians who made great historical contributions. Replace Columbus Day with one of them. It's just a matter of time anyway.
You know nothing about me, idiot. I actually studied Italian (including its history) in college.
Italians are NOT black (and neither were the Ancient Egyptians, by the way), there was only a small ARAB presence in the Southern tip of Italy a long time ago.
As always, you are a freaking liar. Trump's father may have been a racist, but there is NO proof he was ever in the KKK:
https://www.politifact.com/facebook-fact-checks/statements/2019/mar/28/facebook-posts/heres-whats-known-about-fred-trumps-arrest-after-k/
Columbus Day is not celebrated for the sake of celebrating Italian heritage, so your argument is nonsense.
Big deal you took Italian in school. Obviously you learned nothing.
There are Italians in my family, dolt. I also grew up with Italians in my neighborhood and went to school and work with them now. Columbus Day is connected to Italian heritage and pride and Italians had to fight for that holiday to be recognized. It's unlikely that Columbus Day will be replaced in my area soon because of the large Italian population who consider it a day of Italian pride.
NY Gov Cuomo confirmed what I wrote about persecution & discimination. Also why Columbus Day is connected to Italian pride and heritage.
https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2019/10/andrew-cuomo-n-word-radio.html
More confirmation:
https://www.apnews.com/2b9810abe83746f7b3fd14a801d90922
You learned no history since you know nothing about the Moors, lynchings, persecution, struggles, immigration policy re: Italians. Everything I wrote is common knowledge where I live.
Do you personally know even one Italian?
RE: Fred Trump. Your link was badly researched because it only mentions one article instead of five about Fred Trump which gives complete info. Brooklyn Eagle prints his address which was confirmed by the census and a published marriage announcement.
The Long Island paper mentioned that all the arrested men were wearing KKK robes.
"Seven Men Wearing Klan Robes Were Arrested At The KKK Rally That Same Day In Queens – Among Them Was Fred Trump"
This link is very good with detailed information. Woody Guthrie rented from him and said he was a racist.
https://www.ranker.com/list/fred-trump-arrested-kkk-rally/amandasedlakhevener
That link also confirms what I wrote about WASPs discrimination against ethnic whites:
"Although most people picture the KKK lynching African Americans – which is undoubtedly something they've gotten up to in their sordid history – they are also against other groups of people, including Catholics, Jews, and immigrants of all types. Put simply, if your ancestors are not in the WASP (White Anglo-Saxon Protestant) category, then the Klan probably doesn't like you. The 1927 rally was promoted as being against the "Catholic police of New York City" who, they claimed, regularly assaulted "Native-born Protestant Americans."
Fred and Donald Trump were both sued by the Federal Government for housing discrimination against blacks and Hispanics. Typical that you would defend a KKK member.
Bwuahahah! I'll take what my ITALIAN teachers taught me over the bullshit you keep spreading.
When did I claim Italian Americans have never been discriminated against? I'm just calling out your lie that they're black. Now stop deflecting because it has nothing to do with the legitimacy of Columbus Day! Besides, who are you to tell Italians when to celebrate their heritage???
Politifact is a very reputable site, UNLIKE you. Your link doesn't provide any more information about Trump and the KKK than my link.
Typical how you keep twisting my words. First you accuse me of celebrating child sex traffickers and now I'm supposedly defending KKK members. You are truly insane.
Like I wrote, you obviously don't know any Italians. You need to get out of your homogeneous little bubble and meet people of various backgrounds in order to expand your small pea-sized brain.
You also need to work on your reading comprehension. Obviously, you're a bigot like your KKK hero Fred Trump.
Your arguments are simply wonderful, you must've been born without a brain.
Actually, my teachers were Italian, my classmates were and I've been to Italy multiple times. I doubt you've ever set foot outside your own door and interacted with human beings.
Nothing wrong with my reading comprehension. You, however, are the one who once used Egyptian archeologist Zahi Hawass as a source to support your argument, then called him a racist when I quoted him to disprove your argument. If there was any hope, I would suggest you go back to school.
Obviously you didn't go to Italy or you would know about the Moorish influences in architecture, culture and its people.
You also are stupidly repeating that all Italians are white. There are blacks who live in Italy. If you really studied Italian then you should have been exposed to Italian movies and TV shows and should know that. If you traveled there, you should know that. The few Italian talk shows I watched had black host and audience members. You are a liar.
Obviously, you don't know any Italians or you'd know some Italians get very deep tans during the summer. A coworker of mine complained constantly about Northern Italians and whites who treated Sicilians like garbage.
Your regurgitating ignorance once again. What a bore you are!
Lol, obviously you're confused with Spain, you moron. The majority of Italy is all about the Romans, Greeks and Etruscans. Like I already said several posts back, only the Southern tip of Italy had a small Arab presence a very long time ago. And these Arabs were from Berber descent, so hardly black. I can't believe you're lumping Italians together like that. If you knew anything about Italy, you wouldn't do something that insane.
I see you're backtracking. Yeah duh, of course there are black immigrants in Italy. It's Europe, for god's sake. However, we were talking about Italian immigrants in the US. And they are NOT black. Any discrimination against them has nothing to do with race.
Are you trying to prove you've got the lowest IQ here on Moviechat or something?
Coincidentally, a recent episode of CBS "Bob Hearts Abishola", titled "Whacking the Mole" has a joke about 23 minutes in related to our topic. A discussion about the family business employing only white supervisors because the deceased father was racist leads Bob to name a specific supervisor thinking he was black. A black worker replies, "No, he was Italian."
"Moorish architecture in Italy
Moorish refers to the Muslim people that ruled Spain, Portugal, and Southern Italy between the eighth and the fifteenth centuries, and who were originally from North Africa."
https://study.com/academy/lesson/moorish-architecture-in-italy.html
"Indigenous North Africans were black. North African only begins to whiten/lighten post Greco-Roman period. However, at the time of Moorish Spain, both the Berber and Arab populations were still primarily black."
Depictions of Moors in European art during 10-13th centuries:
https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-a0a2683ae7aa7ab1a4e13fe4cc0a3336-c
https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-a015a27e2c87d3a49b9a94692a43c24c
Moor definition:
https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-ce93a274610706724feb24f2acf0bf8c
"Southern tip of Italy"
Sicilians come from southern Italy, dingbat.
I don't believe you took Italian, know any Italians or visited Italy.
Yes, I'm sure there are other people like you with a warped view on race. The US Census Bureau, however does not recognize "Italian" as a seperate race, they are just as Caucasian as Norwegians. If you'd call a European Italian black, he'd laugh in your face, maybe punch you afterwards.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/2017/03/22/sorry-but-the-irish-were-always-white-and-so-were-the-italians-jews-and-so-on/%3foutputType=amp
Yes, it's just like I already said multiple times, only the Southern tip of Italy had a small Arab presence a very long time ago. That does not make Italians black.
The Berber people are Caucasian, but we already established a long time ago that you have no clue about North Africa. Maybe you should talk to your little racist friend, Dr. Hawass! Now stop trying to deflect, this was about the legitimacy of Columbus Day.
https://dnaconsultants.com/moroccan/
Lol! Tu sei pazzo! How immature are you that you have to make yourself believe I've never been to Italy? I guess I never went on that trip to the African continent either, huh? Dude, this says more about you. You've probably never even left your mother's basement!
I suggest you reread all of my posts since your reading comprehension is low. At no point did I say that ethnic Italians were black. I said they were treated poorly when they came to the U.S. especially Sicilians.
Not all Italians look the same, dimwit. Northern Italians tend to have fairer features than Southern Italians.
Long ago? Not necessarily. It's common knowledge that Italian men in Italy are attracted to black women the way white men like Asian women in the States. I'd assume there are many recent intermarriages, too.
Like I previously wrote, the Irish were treated like crap too. Ditto Germans as well as many other whites other than WASPs.
Notice how white Hispanics aren't considered really white and are classified separately: Hispanic white vs non-Hispanic white. The same bigotry continues. You should know this.
It's obvious that you don't know any Italians since all your comments are wrong about: Italian architecture, heritage, discrimination and history.
My neighborhood used to be completely Italian. It's diversified now but there are still plenty of Italians here and throughout the city and state.
BTW, the majority of Italian-Americans don't speak Italian. Yet another thing you don't know.
I discuss things with Italians all the time. They're the ones who told me. And like I said, there are Italians who married into my family.
Fongool! That's real Italian.
You most certainly did say ethnic Italians are black (Sicilians and black ancestry). You also suggested they aren't white, which is a lie. Not being fair-heared does not make one non-white.
Your remark about Italian men being hot for black women is so racist, I can't believe you actually said it. And it's not true either. The number of mixed marriages in Italy is lower than in most Western European countries and it's Filipino women most men seem to go for. It's hilarious, you clearly know nothing.
You were obviously born without a brain. Nowhere did I even imply Italian-Americans speak Italian. All my comments about Italians have been correct, you have not proven any of them wrong. All you've done is make up shit I didn't say.
None of the Italian-Americans you CLAIM to have talked to would ever say they're black. And if they don't check the box "white" on the US Census Bureau survey, they're just as fucked up in the head as you are.
Sorry, I’m not wasting my time or losing sleep over what happened hundreds of years ago. Do I feel bad Native Americans were given smallpox laced blankets? You betcha! Horrible doings from the white man. But, I also feel bad about the Chinese slave labor, black slavery, the Irish were treated like scum when they immigrated here. The English were the big slave traders. They also sent people beneath them to the horrors of Australia. There isn’t a group in this world who hasn’t been spit/spat upon. Indigenous People’s Day! My foot! I’m Polish so the Germans owe me! So, get over it!
shareThe point is to remember, a thread of remembrance. To disregard the past is the mark of a fool.
shareWhat's foolish is to remember it only one day a year. Just put it in a history book so people can remember whenever they want to. And that's going to be one big ass history book!
shareYou got it, Stratego! Can you imagine trying to make sense out of our yearly calendars?😱😨😰
Instead of Sunday, Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, Saturday heading the columns...it will be Taino Day, Black Slavery Day, Bigotry of Irish Day, Chinese Slavery Day, Atrocities Against American Indian Day, Atrocities By England Day, Victims of Hitler Day, etc. Oh hell, go all the way back to Moses’ time when the Israelites were enslaved by the Egyptians!
Actually, each day does celebrate something or other. Today, October 15, is "White Cane Safety Day".
http://www.holidayinsights.com/moreholidays/october.htm
There's a National Pasta Day and a World Pasta Day. Is that redundant?
Who’s disregarding the past? It should be taught in history class, but then the teaching of the Revolutionary War is just a dot. I would rather remember D-Day which isn’t listed on our calendars. The Queen’s birthday is though.
As I wrote prior there isn’t a group of peoples who have totally escaped brutality. Why the remembrance of one group. With that thinking every day of the calendar would have an “In Remembrance Day”. My God, we could drive ourselves batty remembering all the atrocities levied against the different groups! Go to bed recalling the past....awaken in the morning thinking “Whom should I give homage to today?”
BTW, today is the first time I’ve been made aware of “Taino”. It’s always been Columbus Day. As I stated teach the truth in our schools. If Columbus was an arsehole teach about his travels, but also teach the truth about the man. Also, leave it off the calendar.
"As I stated teach the truth in our schools."
The truth isn't taught. They leave out information that may make a historical person less "heroic". For instance, I was never taught that Helen Keller was a communist. A political agenda exist also which means creating lies. For instance, in some schools in the South, they are taught that the American Civil War had nothing to do with slavery.
I was told by someone who worked as a guide at the Statue of Liberty that they didn't want people to know its true history. Most people believe the statue's purpose is about immigration. It isn't.
“The truth isn't taught. They leave out information that may make a historical person less "heroic".
Your quite right. I did not learn until later in life that George Washington Carver spoke with an extremely high voice and loved giving peanut oil massages to handsome men.
I thought you were going to mention the lie about George Washington's honesty re: the cherry tree incident which never happened. It was created by a teacher as a lesson to students about telling the truth. Washington had repeatedly cheated his business partners and was a slave owner.
share