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That's not really true, landofree! A woman can be strong, confident, physically active, able to take care of/defend herself, and still be beautiful and feminine. Come on now! What's there not to get?
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Ok, I wasn't going to respond because I wasn't sure what your angle was with the question, but I'll assume that you are serious even though you haven't really given an example of that you mean. If you are referring to characters like Lorraine in Atomic Blonde, or even Diana in Wonder Woman, believe it or not there are women out there who can kick ass and I can enjoy a character like that. I also thought that they didn't just make the male characters in those movies just sex symbols like they have with female characters in similar movies with male leads.
If you are referring to the remakes of movies with an all female cast, I am not a huge a fan. It's not that I don't think that we shouldn't have a movie with all an all female cast, I just feel like it's (please excuse the term) sloppy seconds. I think that we deserve better. And that just goes for movies period. While I think that some remakes are great movies, would it be too much for a little bit of originality?
Again, I'm not sure what you are talking about, so I'll move on to movies like Bad Moms and even Bridesmaids, I'm not a fan. It's not the female characters so much as again, there are crude women out there, I just really don't like movies like that. I hated The Hangover as well, so it's not the women.
I do think that although Hollywood is far, far from perfect in any form, I like that they are branching out and having more diverse characters, occasionally. You said that you talked to women and they don't like the new characters, would you care to share examples?
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I don't mind a female Doctor. After 50 years of men, why not a woman? Shows need to evolve. I won't make up my mind until I've seen her in action. I grew up with the 4th Doctor and he is "my doctor" but he was also very chauvinistic. Also there really isn't any reason why the doctor can't change sexes.
I disagree with you on a few of those characters. Katniss was a flawed character, and while she was good with a bow and arrow she heavily relied on others so I don't see that has as defeminizing a character. She got her ass kicked more than once and was saved by both male and female characters.
The Amazons are rooted in Greek Mythology and were warrior women, so I'm not sure what the issue is with that. They trained their whole lives. There have also been warrior women in Africa that are recorded in history and aren't just myth.
i don't really have an issue with Rey and Jyn as its Star Wars and there have been questionable talents from more than just female characters.
Selene isn't human so I don't count supernatural and genetically altered, so that includes Alice as well.
When you look at male characters and all the unrealistic things they do do you question that as well? I think that there is a bit of a push for stronger female characters. I mean for years women have just been the boobs beside the brawn.
I think that there have been many males that fit this as well. James Bond, Jason Bourne, and even Batman just for a couple off the top of my head.
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"No where in evolution has a man turned into a woman." Humans do not, but the doctor isn't human. This has been argued and argued, but if you watch the show there have been at least a few references to Time Lords and Ladies being able to switch gender. Missy for one, Corsair another.
Your next statements are losing me as not all men are masculine, women are more than breasts, and as for the rest of the comment it was more about a double standards than saying that men are de-feminized.
Ideally we need more women writers and directors that can create a female character that might seem more realistic to you.
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Since I am a woman (a female if you will), I am incapable of thought or agency. I'll just let this one be dealt with by the men. Men really are the best at dealing with things. And doing things. Thinking about thinks. Making things. Men are simply the best. Better than all the rest. Better than anyone. Anyone I ever met. Oh, they're the best!
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No, I can't answer your question. I'm a woman, I can do no such thing. Answering questions and discussing things isn't very feminine now, is it? Only men can perform such complicated tasks and still manage to look dignified and attractive.
But I have questions for you (you being a man can answer questions, while I as a woman can only seek enlightenment from men).
I talked with many women who find it disturbing that Hollywood is turning females characters in to manly characters?
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That's no way to talk to a lady!
Good day sir!
Women characters still trapped in perfection... Idealised characters are rarely interesting
It's hard to do sex or romance and still have the woman character seem independent...
There is a vulnerability in falling in love, in connecting with and needing another... Men are allowed this onscreen as it adds depth and realism to their characters... Their status and strength are not questioned by it... with most women characters, there is a corporate and PC fear of the sensual and in seeing vulnerability in women as it would be seen as weakness and subversive to the "strong female character" cliche...
Perhaps "Strong" women character's seem boring and "de-feminised" to you because they are flat and one dimensional... Rarely do they seem like actual characters or full people, rather they are symbols for empowerment, instead of being symbols for sexuality... It's still boring and one dimensional, even though I can see how it is preferable for women to see strong portrayals rather than just sexy ones... Still they aren't full characters for the most part...
Also you can't show women as being mothers or sisters of boys and men, because that will also go against the "Strong female" perspective, since including the son or sister aspect suddenly makes it a "male gaze*" perspective... So in effect, the feminist PC perspective ends up having it's own set of restrictions on what a women is and how she is portrayed...
To have a proper villian woman is rare, as it is seen as "woman-hating" or misogynist by feminists and PC types, so apart from Glenn Close's roles, there are few...
This all adds up to portrayals of women on screen being less nuanced, textured and multi-dimensional than the numerous women in your life... Certainly less so then men, who can be nearly anything on screen and multidimensional, as there is less of a identity politics restriction...
* Male Gaze is a feminist film theory term to describe how women in movies are often shot from a male point of view...
Also... I'll add that I've never heard women complain about de-feminisation of women characters in movies... Not that I dispute your original post...
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Examples?
I don't have a problem with women being portrayed as 'manly' in Hollywood, mainly because I don't think that's the issue with women in Hollywood at all. I can't even think of one instance of this. My issue is that female portrayal as a whole is pretty limited, and that there are a few roles women are delegated to playing and nothing much more beyond those, such as love interest, mother or nameless hot girl. And that's even when they're the lead character.
If the issue you have is that the male lead has been swapped out with a female actor, maybe that's more accurate of an issue. It's not necessarily that the character is un-feminine, but that she was written to be played by a man and it's obvious.
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No shade, but just to respond to your points:
I think straight women can be manly and that transgender women can be feminine, but the over-the-top quality, used too often, is what I would say bothers me - and I would say that about the overly feminine gay male stereotype too.
I probably don't watch enough content, but i still don't think I'm wrong in saying many women are relegated to these roles in a lot of the content I do watch. It's not uncommon enough for me be think this has changed so greatly it's not an issue.
As for your last statement, I'm thinking of the movie Salt as a clear example of a role written for a man. Did Angelina Jolie lack femininity as the lead? No. But it's still obvious that the role was not written for a woman.
I blame Franz Lang with that Hel/Maria character he created...or Mary Shelley!
Or Eve!! (That harpy!)
Just had a conversation on this topic the other day. To answer your question, I don't find it "disturbing", but I do find it irritating. One of my favorite female characters growing up was Princess Leia. She was courageous, smart, a fighter, and a LADY. These days, it seems Hollywood's women can't just be women, they have to prove they're the same as, or better than, men. It shows an insecurity on their part. We have different strengths and weaknesses, different parts of a puzzle, as it were. It's more fascinating to watch how these pieces work together than to watch a mish-mash obnoxious women putting men "in their place".
Wonder Woman was very popular, but the scene I got a kick out of was when she saw a baby and wanted to cuddle it. The men in my family couldn't relate to why I would care about such a little thing when there was so much else going on. For me, the rest was just a superhero being a superhero. And I'd already seen plenty of that. The baby scene showed she was actually a woman. That's what was refreshing.
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