I think TV drama, beginning with The Sopranos, continuing through series like Deadwood, to Breaking Bad, and on into the current Game of Thrones, and others, is better than most of what is being released theatrically.
Comedies, such as cable's brilliant Curb Your Enthusiasm, or network's Community, are so much sharper than, say the movies of Apatow or Ferrell, that there's really no comparison.
The only genres where film might be superior are the action and superhero ones.
Hah! I actually started a thread about this in TV General & just made a similar, but smaller statement about it in that 'Oscars Irrelevancy' thread...so suffice to say...I would answer this with a resounding YES. TV has definitely become my go-to medium and I trust it to be better these days actually. Studios just ruin movies too much now, everything seems made to either break the box office or to garner awards.
Whereas on tv, story matters and character and creators are willing to go weirder, more niche, and really expand our view of what these narratives can be. Sure, they have the advantage of telling a longer story, but they've used that advantage well. I don't think it's any surprise a lot of show runners refer to their shows as, "10 hour movies," versus episodes. I also think a shift in the audience is what helped it as well. From what I observe audiences for tv are much more open minded and willing to go along with something a little more daring or a little more unconventional than they are with films. So there's this weird sort of divide in how we approach and view the two, again, in my opinion.
And I didn't even mention the change in technology, but I'm sure everyone gets that anyways.
This isn't to say there aren't amazing films, and shitty tv, but...all in all, I gravitate towards my tv for quality more these days than a theater. Creatives saw a gap in the tv landscape and they filled it with what they weren't getting or able to get in the movies.
Sorry, I'm sure this is totally a TL;DR, haha...I'm quite passionate about the subject ;P
I hope you'll never concern yourself with the length of a post. When it's well-reasoned and well-written, as yours is, there should never be a worry about trimming it to a Twitter-length attention span.
I agree with you point-for-point, and don't see how I could enhance any of them, except to say that many of the theatrical releases seem shaped by committee and focus group, but maybe that's what you're talking about, too.
I only regret that I didn't see your posting on the topic. I wrote mine when I didn't see anything similar.
Thank you for your very encouraging and kind words! I appreciate them and this reply.
Focus group is a great way to put it. I just listened to a talk about the lack of representation in Hollywood just yesterday, and without getting into the politics of it all...in general it just highlighted the fact that the industry and studios hard lines still seem pretty out of sync with what audiences actually like or want to see. They drew their sandbox long ago and seem stubborn to stay within it and these days I think it's seriously hurting them in terms of just making good things, especially now that tv has seriously stepped up its game.
You can still see my topic (and more long rants, hah) in the TV General thread, if you'd like, but it's all about the same as what's going on here.
@ MarlonBrawndo "I hope you'll never concern yourself with the length of a post. When it's well-reasoned and well-written, as yours is, there should never be a worry about trimming it to a Twitter-length attention span. "
Hear hear! Agree so much! It's so nice to see all the lengthy well-reasoned posts being made around here. I try to force myself all the time to not get annoyed, or look down on, the more twittery ones, as I know this is the format we are being forced into with the limits on the more popular social media. Thank god for moviechat that we can have these long semi (or full)-essays of posts enhancing our minds!
@Mahrez
I feel you summed it up nicely in Dreamers' thread:
"I think TV series have become much much better than they used to, but the quality of movies have dropped a lot in the last say 10 (?) years. These days they spew out almost only poor remakes, run-of-the-mill superhero-movies, pretentious artsy "meaningful" movies, heavy depressing movies on serious subjects or not-funny romantic "comedies"(or chick-flicks) and horror ofc (which i don't watch)."
In movies' defense, it's harder to go in depth in a 2 hour span than in a 10 or 20 hour span a series have. For that, you need a much better script than for a series. At least it looks that way to me.
I tried to include the longer time factor in my comment, but it's a solid point all the same. There is such a massive difference in what you can do within 2 hours than 10 or 13 and I respect that.
I was just sort of saying though, that until recently it didn't seem like show runners were taking advantage of, well that advantage. Creators realizing what they could do and accomplish with having that span of time is part of what contributes to tv being so great nowadays.
Still, the length point remains, and shouldn't be forgotten when discussing/comparing the two.
I agree with you, TV is in general much better nowadays and I'm glad TV scriptwriters started using the advantage of a longer hours they have at their disposal.
I am starting to wonder though what is going on with movie scripts nowadays... where have all the good scriptwriters gone?
I think the talent pool has just become so homogeneous and they're not letting newbies in enough to refresh it and bring in new voices/perspectives.
You could also, probably, make the case that tv is stealing a lot of them from film! If you look at the two, I wouldn't be surprised, if a writer would rather try their hand in tv over film considering how much better it has been and that they'd maybe get to flex their muscles in it more.
its hard to tell since they are pretty different, where a stand alone movie tells one story a series can tell many, and also have the benefit of being able to take there time with characters and story's with added detail which you wouldn't be able to fit into a single film. I wouldn't say TV has surpass film, but I wouldn't say its much below it either, they're on pretty equal standing
Many folk have great big TV's with good sound systems at home now, and it's only the really big special effects films (action \ superhero) that may have more impact on a really big screen that make people want to pay good money to see them in a cinema.
Mind you I do think most TV drama is so drawn out, out of the " big shows"
I have only watched the Sopranos and Breaking Bad (and so far Better Call Saul) in completion. What a movie used to do in two-three hours now (or say a trilogy 9 hours) takes 10-50 hours and that's just a bit daft to me.
Good points. I wasn't thinking so much of the much-improved quality of viewers' home entertainment systems, but I expect that has been a factor. I had in mind the comparative budgets film and TV have to work with in creating special FX extravaganzas, and that film has the advantage. Those aren't my thing, but I imagine you're right that fans of the genre have a more immersive experience in the theater.
As to the issue of whether TV's greater time span in telling a story is a plus or minus, I'd say it could go either way. The Sopranos "Pine Barrens" ep couldn't have been done as well in film, and is a classic of that series. On the other hand, I thought the Vito Spatafor coming-out story line was ridiculously drawn-out and pointless.
I found Breaking Bad's "Fly" and Jesse's lost weekend-type party house eps tiresome, and I recall that many Better Call Saul viewers complained about the various montages. (FWIW, I didn't agree about the montages, especially when BCS haters cited them as "slow" in comparison with BB, which was equally rife with them.)
Overall, I like the long-form storytelling better, when it's done well.
I do think that the caution and risk aversion exerted by movie studios has hampered their creativity a great deal. That has been evident for a long time. The growth of new production outlets for "TV" has resulted in a lot more creativity. I put TV in quotes because that term is becoming archaic with all the internet options. And then, there are entirely new venues sold directly to the public such as Louis CK's Horace and Pete - who knows how to categorize that!
Another thing that helps with the quality of "TV" programing is the move to limited series, sometimes with just a handful of episodes per season. This allows concentration on a few episodes and a lack of "filler" or formulaic episodes.
Not just the limited amount of episodes allotted to miniseries, but regular series have cut down on season to season episodes too. We've gone, thankfully, from the norm being 20+ episodes per season to like 10-13. That boosts quality greatly, I think, because it really allows the writers to craft something more fully from beginning to end and avoiding filler.
Not to mention, the somewhat shorter schedule probably appeals to the talent more so you get better actors wanting to come aboard. The way you phrased, "caution and risk aversion," is spot on. That's what I was trying to get at, but you did it much more eloquently, lol, nice!
T.v. series work on a character bases that can be used for multiple plots than a film can. Additionally, t.v. series can be regulated better to know the number of viewers, who watched it and at what time, during the year. Film, one would pretty much have to go to a movie theater, buy a dvd or blue ray, and/or get it when it comes out on Netflix. Not to mention, there is huge lag time between when it leaves theaters and is actually available in stores. Also, the only way to know the number of people who see it is by the box office. Then there people who know their way around the system watching both t.v. series and movies on bootleg sites, which further causes a loss for revenue and viewer statistics. It particularly hurts movies because once you see a movie, you probably will not most likely see it again. T.v. series can have multiple episodes that may or may not be accessible all at once.
T.v. series, I have found, are harder to find on bootleg sites than movies are. T.v. movies, you can forget about it.
I dislike all of the shows you've mentioned except for The Sopranos. Still, I have to admit I've enjoyed more tv shows than movies the last 15 years or so.
It's almost like asking if a poem or short story has passed a novel in creative quality... when the formal qualities are restricted in terms of providing logical breaks for commercials, network vs. cable rules, number of episodes per season vs. a two to three hour running time, it's a bit of apples and oranges. When cable television became free of the need to censor, to lock it self within the structure of 42 minute time limit, to only make 10 episodes instead of more than twenty per year, it's only natural that it would begin to resemble film. At this point, length would naturally then give the benefit to television as you had much more time to develop characters and storylines. But this is still like comparing an amazing one night stand or date to a long term relationship. Two different things in many aspects.
You said: "At this point, length would naturally then give the benefit to television as you had much more time to develop characters and storylines. But this is still like comparing an amazing one night stand or date to a long term relationship. Two different things in many aspects."
I think your analogy is very apt. The much greater timeline that TV has for developing storylines and filling out characters gives it a natural edge, these days, in my opinion.
Theatrical films' great advantage used to be the much larger budgets, which allowed them to attract the best writing, acting, and production talent, as well as the freedom to shoot on locations TV couldn't match.
CGI has leveled the playing field on location shooting, and, again in my opinion, the focus group approach to greenlighting and creating films has degraded much of the product to the function of being nothing more than a money machine.
Most of the one-night stands are no longer that spectacular or memorable.
Home video really helped develop independent filmmaking. Even when producers knew they couldn't make money theatrically, they'd still greenlight projects knowing they'd make it back on DVD. Once piracy became rampant, they all became risk averse, that's why we only see huge franchise films with built in audiences. They say the movie industry is healthy because the ten tentpole films are making billions but meanwhile small films are dying in spite of the occasional fluke like Moonlight. Because of this, the one-night stands are set in expensive restaurants, with the flash mobs and the horse drawn carriages, but the conversation is usually terrible.
I think it's mostly true, but there are some exceptions. Unfortunately there has been plenty of garbage on tv in the last decade, Duck Dynasty, Honey Boo Boo, 2 and Half Men, Jersey Shore. Channels like TLC, A&E, Discovery and History used to have very interesting shows about science and nature but now they're just trash like the shows I mentioned earlier. Recent movies haven't been too impressive, some decent ones but no classics. There are still good police, medical and legal dramas on tv but almost no good comedies, The Odd Couple was quite good but it looks likely to be cancelled.