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Do we WANT higher wages for the working class?


Recent discussion with a lib, on the subject of working class wages. He was strangely resistant to the idea, especially for working class whites. He would not say why.

Made me wonder, what is the overall view of this issue. I've always that that, outside of especially evil ceo offices that everyone would want to see higher wages for the working class, and that those that resisted what I thought were policies aimed at that, were doing so because they wanted to get there by a different path.

Now, I'm wondering if there is just a significant portion of the population that just doesn't want to see wages rise.

And if so, I am hoping that someone of that group will share with us, why.


i personaly want to see wages rise for the working class. I think that would be good for them and good for the country.

Anyone else want to share their position or thoughts on this issue?

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When wages go up for one group, then other groups also request and receive higher wages which then has companies raise the prices for consumer goods. The original group ends up back where they started.

There are more efficient ways to help the working-class. What has harmed workers has been the removal of different benefits over the decades. They need to be reintroduced.

Taxes have become basically a flat tax in the U.S. where the working-class pay a greater share than the rich. Working-class need their taxes lowered and the rich should be paying a higher and fairer share.

Benefits like paid sick leave, pensions or 401ks, paid parental leave, better working conditions and unionized workers, etc. can go along way to help them.

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So, you DON'T want increased wages, because that is not a way to improve things for people, more government benefits is the way to improve things?

Interesting. Thanks for being honest.

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I'm being realistic based on history and what I witnessed as a child. I witnessed wages raised which lead to everyone's wages raised and increased prices and inflation. It doesn't work.

My suggestions are based on what economists' say is a much more effective way to increase finances for the working-class. Recently, Biden was able to effectively lower the poverty rate without increasing wages. He used other means including the child tax credit which put money in people's pockets. Another good thing was to forgive some student loans.

BTW, I do support a decent minimum/living wage. I assumed your question meant to further increase it.

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I want lower gravity so I can dunk like I'm 7 feet tall.

I also want a pony.

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I'm strongly in favour of higher wages for the working class. Life is very expensive and costs keep going up. Wages need to go up to keep pace with the rising cost of living. Some may say that companies will raise prices if wages increase, but they already do raise prices anyways, regardless of wages.

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dont you see this is like some kind of vicious circle? walmart pay their employees more, so they raise prices at the store, when the workers get paid they have to spend more on food. which essentially makes their pay increase useless?

and it wont be just walmart who does it, it's everyone...

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But stores are already raising their prices, even if they don't pay the employees more. If Walmart never increased their employees wages, do you honestly think the prices would never go up? My rent goes up every single year, no matter what, even if my wages do not increase. Prices at the grocery stores frequently increase regardless of if there was an increase in minimum wage. Prices will go up, no matter what. Wages need to be increased to keep pace with this.

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no. i agree that prices are going up and always will. but we have to understand why. read my post below to understand why the minimum wage doesn't work, it only creates more poverty.

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If a company can't pay their employees a fair living wage, then their business model doesn't work and needs to be changed. Shortchanging the workers in order to keep struggling companies afloat is not the solution.

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people talk as if we arrived on this planet yesterday and nothing has been tried out and everythings new.

we've seen the results of these policies. they have never worked.

"Shortchanging the workers in order to keep struggling companies afloat is not the solution."

maybe the most stupid comment i've ever read on the internet, and i've been here for almost 25 years.

you can put the mimimum wage at 2 bucks an hour or 2000 an hour, but if these companies aren't afloat and go bust, then theres no jobs or wages anyway!

for fucks sake people are getting stupider by the day.

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You are missing the point completely.

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you've just said the most stupid fucking thing i've ever read, ever!

"Shortchanging the workers in order to keep struggling companies afloat is not the solution."

you fucking moron!

so if the companies aren't afloat, they go bust! like they're going bust daily! what good is a minimum wage!?

you think pay is more important than a company exisiting!? if it doesnt exist, theres no jobs anyway!

embarrassing the state of this country. it really is. people are morons.

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If you think my comment is the stupidest thing you have ever read, then you need to read more. Some companies will cease operation and those specific jobs won't exist, but that happens regardless of minimum wage. Minimum wage is still necessary. New companies will start up and there will be other jobs. Not paying employees a fair wage to hypothetically prevent some companies from shutting down is not justifiable.

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what good is imposing a minimum wage on a company and it's employees if said company goes bust?!

"Shortchanging the workers in order to keep struggling companies afloat is not the solution."

what good is it? if a company doesn't exist, it's workers have nothing. not even a buck an hour. you'd sacrifice a company, it's workers....just so the workers got paid a little more when there would be no work!

you've took them from something to nothing. dont you get how stupid that is?


this is embarrassing. when i talk to people like you i get why the country is so fucked.

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If the company goes bust because they can't pay their employees a fair wage, then most likely they would end up going bust regardless. There is no guarantee that the company will stay in operation and be successful because they don't pay a certain wage. You are assuming that every company will thrive if they pay their employees a lower wage. That is simply not the case. If minimum wage didn't exist, companies would still shut down and people would still lose jobs.

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you must be on welfare, because real honest working people would rather get paid 20 bucks an hour and have something, then an enforced 25 bucks an hour and be let go because the company goes bust.

we dont create work by taxing and enforcing pay laws that take away employment.

i can't argue with someone who doesn't have basic logic. it's silly. it's from the same education system that has us believing that dudes can be women and the "unvaccinated need to get vaccinated in order to protect the vaccinated"

people are fucking insane.

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Nope, not on welfare. And who said that $25 an hour has to be the minimum amount? I have not suggested that and I haven't seen anyone else suggesting that. Where I live the minimum wage is currently $16.55 an hour.

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if we're talking about a raise in the minimum wage then no! the economy is a mess, everytime we raise the minimum wage we see unemployment also rise in the 12-18 months after that. because there will be companies that are barely surviving. so if you make them pay their employees more, then they'll do one of 3 things.

1. stop hiring, 2. let people go or 3, close down.

i have a friend whos a plumber, he started off when he was fresh out of high school, a company hired him as a trainee paying not a lot of money, but that was ok by him because he lived at home, now he's a plumber and earning great money.

if you would have made a company pay him a certain wage then he would have never got that training. they would have never hired someone who needed training and be paid so much.

liberals think throwing money at something is the solution, but theres never any intelligent thought to it.

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I'd settle for wages of the rich to be lowered.

No one is worth a million+ dollars a year.

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So, no interest in helping the working class, you just want to pull down people who have "too much"?

You have NO feeling of wanting to help them out? Are you removed from them, ie rich or middle class? No feeling of connection or loyalty based on being fellow citizens or same community or anything like that?

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your response is the problem, wheres the data? wheres the figures? wheres the common sense?

you've responded with emotional blackmail and feelings

we can't run the economy on feelings and "i'm nice you you're not"

it's just silly. our society is in a mess because we've abandonded common sense and everything is emotions and feelings.

ok, you want raise the minimal wage, you dont have any figures or data to back up why it would work, you've ignored my examples, my logic, but you're a nice guy.

great.

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The topic of this thread is a question DO YOU WANT THIS OUTCOME?,

I previously assumed that the vast majority of people more or less were in favor of improving the wages of the working class. I have had many discussions about how to do this, and most of them were useless circular idiocies.

It occurred to me that perhaps I should check and make sure that we are all working towards a same or similar goal, to understand the complete failure to agree on policy.



Specific policies to get higher wages, are not really the topic for THIS thread. This is more about getting a feel for what various groups even WANT, and bonus points if we get any insight into why or how.

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Oh boy. I know I have to explain things to Kowalski in slow terms with small words but you too?

So if Galen Weston Jr isn't getting 10 million a year or whatever, where do you think that money goes?

Either items cost less or more people get higher wages.

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So, I was to understand that lower ceo pay meant that you want to raise working class wages?




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I used words. I thought they made sense.

Try to make sense of them.

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My first assumption would be higher dividends.

Do you see it as less ceo pay obviously leads to higher wgaes?

Because your initial post made it look like you were motivated by pulling down teh rich, not giving higher wages to the working class...

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I don't think a person who serves coffee at Starbucks should make what a person who performs heart surgery does.

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Clearly past disccussions you have had on this subject are existing in your mind as barriers to communication causing you to not hear my words so much as the words of past people.


When I say "higher wages for teh workign class", my intent was the diffeerence between allowing them the difference between WORKING POOR and POVERTY.

i've seen that difference. Working class jobs such as Nurse's aide, depending on market conditions and cost of living, can either be a WORKING POOR situation or POVERTY.


Hell, my mother growing up worked that job. My childhood was partially defined by that socio-economic condition.

And in many ways, it was pretty good.


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Some are. You aren't, I'm not, but some are...

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Well we don't need minimum wage starting at $50.00 an hour like that woman wanted in California.. When it comes to working in fast food, you can only raise the wage so high before you as an owner have to go out of business or go robotic

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So, you don't think the WAY to do it is though increasing the min wage, BUT you do WANT it?

1. You DO want to see it? Correct?

2. Can you say WHY?

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Yeah, raise it for Christ sake, but don't go overboard like in California

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In the not too distant future there'll no longer be a "working class".
These jobs will be done by machines.
Human society is undergoing global upheaval, partly due to these changes.

For the present, workers in certain industries should be paid better.
The service sector in particular is poorly paid in the USA (e.g. gastronomy, salesclerks).

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Possible issues with automation and ai noted.

BUT, in the short term at least, you DO want to see "paid better".


Got it. Thank you.

Bonus round. Can you explain WHY you want this?

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Fair wages for good work.
How much that would be could be discussed at the next strike. ☺
The era of modern 'slavery' should come to an end.
Everyone who works should earn more than they would receive as a welfare case. *




*
In the not too distant future we need to discuss that again.
How much social security should be paid for a machine that replaces a worker? 🤔​

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i don't want higher wages just because.

people who get higher wages ideally are getting them through higher productivity, with some form of personal capital increasing their value. experience at a task, within a field, ability to do something more efficiently because of cognitive gifts that person is lucky to have. or charm & charisma.

in a free market, failures are just as important as successes. failure is a signal to do something different, to yourself & to someone else.

so i think it's important to let people fail, just like it's important to let companies fail.

i'm for preventing people from becoming destitute, but beyond that, i don't consider a person working for a low wage a bad result. working at a low wage is one of the best ways to get the qualities you'll need to ultimately get a higher wage.

i personally would like to see all forms of gov't wage manipulation abolished (minimum wages especially, tax incentives for providing health & other benefits, etc) coupled with something like a mincome program.

i'm no expert, but i think that's the best way to increase employment among idle groups & improve productivity.

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"just because"?


I recall recently a vid I saw about a college profession complaining about seeing a sign for mcdonalds hiring at a level similar to his own wages (he was not a full professor, sort of ...something lesser).


The mcdonalds had had troulbe getting people so increased wages to try to get needed staff.


Does that hit your radar as "just because" or "ok" or "good"? and why please.

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no, that's perfectly valid. the mcdonalds is perhaps increasing wages because there's a real demand for unskilled labor, or there's a shortage in that area.

we've all heard stories of low skilled industries having to offer high starting wages in boom areas. i know i heard such things out of north dakota when the fracking revolution took off.

it's important to let prices rise in a shortage - that's the way prices act as a signal for people to enter the market.

that's why price ceilings on products are often so harmful. if a gov't imposes a price control on an item, then it just creates a shortage or some real long term structural problems.

if the prices are rising because of inflationary actions of gov'ts or the central bank, then that's another matter entirely.

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Excellent. So, that is a clear YES vote.


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a yes vote if the reasons are positive!

i also should have said increased demand as well as increased productivity in my first post.

so i apologize for being unclear.

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No, that's fine. I am going very.... deep here to try to see underlying... philosophical differences... that I think I was missing until just now.

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