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Why Are Incels Hated More Than Any Other Group?

posted 2 years ago by HarveyManFredSin (4877)
54 replies | jump to latest

I keep seeing these documentaries about 'incels', and commentary on how hated they are.

I don't see this level of abuse and vitriol for ACTUAL rapists, sex offenders, sex-addicts, men who visit prostitutes, child molesters, and other highly-sexed men who, you know, actually commit crimes that, you know, actually harm women and children.

People talk about how 'violent' they are. *sigh* What? More violent that men like R Kelly, Harvey Weinstein, Bill Cosby, OJ Simpson, or rapist-murderers like Wayne Couzens (married with children) and Lewis Haines, who murdered a woman for rejecting his advances (yes, already had a girlfriend back home)?!?

My theory: 'incels' are despised by society so much, despite the fact that ALL evidence indicates people are having far less sex than they did in previous generations, because a lot of society are liars who like to pretend their lives are better/cooler than they actually are, so what better way to pretend to be a hot stud who is adored by women, than hate on guys who aren't getting any (even though the reality is, NO-ONE is ACTUALLY getting any these days).

Also, isn't this an example of punching down?

We don't demonise people for being poor/not being able to afford a house or a car, do we? And yet, we demonise anyone who is bereft of love, which any true leftist knows is far more important than wealth, and sex, which is the BEST FORM OF EXERCISE, and is DIRECTLY LINKED to longevity. Fucking weird...

What a hypocritical, messed-up world we live in. One that teaches people that love and sex is more important than money, and yet demonises anyone who is incapable of having love or sex.

Pathetic. Cruel. Mean-spirited. Hateful. And moronic. Words that describe our attitudes towards people who are lonely, sad, and likely to die prematurely due to a lack of companionship.

Anyone hating on so-called 'incels' is NOT a progressive. They are a cruel, stuck-up, mean-spirited BULLY. Deal with it. 😠

And yeah, I'll repeat my previous point. It ain't incels (i.e. people who are literally NOT having sex) who are raping, assaulting, abusing, exploiting and sexually preying on people (i.e. committing acts of MISOGYNIST violence).

GET. A. FUCKING. GRIP. And start focusing on the REAL villains (which means setting aside the egos and the LIES you tell yourself and others about your non-existent sex-lives).

[–] B1cKsurN (17834) 2 years ago

Incel is simply the latest version of the classical "virgin" insult, nothing new there. The only difference is the internet and social media amplify everything to the Nth degree.

________________________
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Average minds discuss events.
Small minds discuss people.

[–] HarveyManFredSin (4877) 2 years ago

Agreed.

I mean, I know that the word has taken on a new meaning, to refer to 'misogynist' men, but there are plenty of misogynists who are having very regular sex with women.

I'd argue that the most dangerous men *ARE* the ones having regular sex with women. After all, if you're not having sex, you're literally NOT committing rape or using sex slaves.

We talk about how terrible and monstrous these men are, but R Kelly, Harvey Weinstein, Donald Trump, Andrew Tate, and so on, are, or at least *were*, the ones having sex (and, depending what you believe, the ones actively HARMING women).

So, yes, let's speak out against ALL forms of misogyny, but why simply focus on virginal misogynists, unless one is a bully who likes picking on 'losers', and likes to ignore 'successful' misogynists?

[–] WarrenPeace (2267) 2 years ago

This, and your OP, reads like as if you are an angry, confused and a jealous incel while attacking those who are not and are sexually active while being in denial that we are.

I am getting confused and don't understand what your point is.

You do realize that there are those of us sexually active and we are good guys, don't you?

[–] B1cKsurN (17834) 2 years ago

You do realize that there are those of us sexually active and we are good guys, don't you?

Yes, but your wife's BFs sloppy seconds isn't exactly the best sex out there...

(I'm joking, but you walked right into that one, my man) 😁

________________________
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Average minds discuss events.
Small minds discuss people.

[–] WarrenPeace (2267) 2 years ago

Just like how he walked into the bedroom because I am such a cuck!

Hey, don't knock our lifestyle if we like it!
LOL

[–] B1cKsurN (17834) 2 years ago

Sounds like some bullshit right there! 🤣

________________________
Great minds discuss ideas.
Average minds discuss events.
Small minds discuss people.

[–] HarveyManFredSin (4877) 2 years ago

I grew up being taught by militant feminists that 'all [heterosexual] sex was rape'. Now I'm being told that straight men who *aren't* having sex are the bad guys, so I'd say you're right about the confusion. But is that *my* fault? 🤔
Or could it be because I've been getting very mixed messages my entire life?

And once again, the stats indicate that the most 'woke' generation, aren't having as much sex as previous generations, and than many Zillennials regard approaching a woman to ask her on a date is 'harassment' (despite putting the word in inverted commas, I'm not making a judgement here, one way or the other).

And yes, as an aside, the truth is, if you're NOT having sex, you're literally NOT committing rape or other forms of sexual abuse. That's just simple LOGIC.

I don't know you. I don't know if you're a good or bad guy. All I know is that undersexed men are the ones being demonised, and yet, it's not *them* who are raping women, engaging in domestic violence (as many husbands and boyfriends do), or sleeping with sex-trafficked women and exploited prostitutes. Once again, that's just LOGIC.

PS: Research has also shown that marriage is better for men than it is for women. Married men live longer and experience better health than unmarried men. The reverse seems to be true for women. So, who's to say who the *real* misogynists are here. The single men, or the men who trap women in a PATRIARCHAL institution that HURTS women.

REAL feminists, like me, need to smell the fucking grass, and start recognising who the real baddies are, and who the real allies are.

[–] WarrenPeace (2267) 2 years ago

OK thank you for sharing that to clear it up to give me a better understanding what you mean and where you are coming from.

I can relate since I grew up with a feminist sister where for the longest time I felt some shame in being a straight male even though I could not help being born as one and am one of the good ones and treat women with respect.

Sex with consent is not rape and for me it has always been with consent.

While undersexed men may be getting demonized, at the same time those who commit sexual assault etc. are getting arrested and punished by the legal system so in my book that makes those who may get unprovoked teased or harassed for being an incel are getting off easy.
Not that I am excusing that. Just showing how it is may not be all that horrible.

I can relate to the Zills. having a hard time asking a woman out because I am very shy and not the type who would go around hitting up on anything with breasts.
It always had to be the right place and time for me until I discovered and tried online dating.
That makes it so much easier because you know they are available.

[–] HarveyManFredSin (4877) 2 years ago

"so in my book that makes those who may get unprovoked teased or harassed for being an incel are getting off easy."

Getting off easy? That implies that being a virgin/celibate is as bad as committing sexual assault. Is that really the argument you want to make?!? 🤷‍♂️

Why is there any shame for celibate men or celibate women? Some of us are asexual. Some of us are still working out our sexuality. Some of us experience FOMO, where we don't physically want sex, but mentally we're worried that we're missing out on something we should be doing. And some of us are simply shy or anxious about dating, often for good, respectful reasons (i.e. "I don't want to hurt another person's feelings, if it doesn't work out" etc).

Why should ANY of these people be condemned? Why should any of these people be teased or harassed, or told they're 'getting off easy' simply because they're not being arrested and punished?

Is that where we are now (it wouldn't surprise me)? Single people are now going to be imprisoned for being 'deviants'/not contributing to civilisation?

FWIW, the world is already overpopulated. Having children is the BIGGEST impact one can have on one's carbon footprint. Maybe it's time we started treating the celibate as HEROES rather than castigating them for not bringing yet more children into this resource-stretched world.

[–] B1cKsurN (17834) 2 years ago

Relevant funny video...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hbeEuYAZFL4

________________________
Great minds discuss ideas.
Average minds discuss events.
Small minds discuss people.

[–] WarrenPeace (2267) 2 years ago

I will be nice and respectful to those who are nice and respectful to me.

If an incel is being a jerk or a troll, which is what I experience online, then I will call them out for it and they deserve any shame for it.

If I knew of an incel in the real world, I will not give them a hard time for it as long as there is no need to.
I am not a bully but I will speak up and defend myself in any way I can.

[–] B1cKsurN (17834) 2 years ago

Incels only exist online because they could never ever get away with what they say on the internet....in real life.

________________________
Great minds discuss ideas.
Average minds discuss events.
Small minds discuss people.

[–] HarveyManFredSin (4877) 2 years ago

Who is 'attacking you'?

Are you a man or a woman?

If you're a man, NO ONE is attacking you for having a lot of sex. Quite the contrary in fact.

[–] warrior-poet (1369) 2 years ago

It's classic bullying amplified X1000 by the anonymity of the internet. Plus, "incel" isn't a real word. And even those who do employ use of this cringeworthy term are more often misusing it than not, throwing it around like vulgarity instead of a verifiable descriptive label.
_________________________________________
Never believe. Always question. Rebuke belief, a.k.a. bias, a.k.a. groupthink, a.k.a. ideology, the bane of skeptical, logical reason.

[–] HarveyManFredSin (4877) 2 years ago

It was a word first coined by a woman who wanted to engage with other lonely single people and share their anxieties and frustrations, without pouring scorn on any one sex.

It's sad to see how society has regressed. When you look at a film like the 40-Year-Old-Virgin, which was very sympathetic to Steve Carroll's character's predicament, contrary to the initial assumption that the film was making fun of him (I mean, it was a little, but in a sweet, uncruel way), and then look where we are now, with respect to lonely people, it's sad, and the irony is, singledom and long-term loneliness is, for better or worse, only becoming more common among women and men.

And yes, like you say, it's bullying, but no-one's going to put their hand up and defend themself, because no-one wants to admit "I'm not having much sex at the moment." It's a badge of shame, which is fundamentally misogynist if you think about it, because it treats sex as an award, and puts pressure on people to have it ASAP, which is a remedy for abuse, or, at the very least, dissatisfaction.

[–] warrior-poet (1369) 2 years ago

Yeah, I looked that up to pin down its exact origin as I replied previously, and almost even posted a link. As you say, it started out as an innocent concept and it's been corrupted. I can only agree that it's a sad state of affairs. Society is a mess right now.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-45284455
_________________________________________
Never believe. Always question. Rebuke belief, a.k.a. bias, a.k.a. groupthink, a.k.a. ideology, the bane of skeptical, logical reason.

[–] HarveyManFredSin (4877) 2 years ago

"Society is a mess right now."

It is in all our power to do better. Frankly, I think it comes mostly down to all of us needing to show more empathy (and less entitlement).

But thank you for doing the research and understanding my argument. 🙂

[–] warrior-poet (1369) 2 years ago

Frankly, I think it comes mostly down to all of us needing to show more empathy (and less entitlement)

Very well said! And I agree.

I'm don't state this within a religious context (I'm not religious), but the so-called "golden rule" nails it. We've forgotten, and younger generations aren't properly being taught, how to put others above oneself. Too many are running around with their hand stuck out expecting free stuff at the expense of others instead of asking what they can do for others.
_________________________________________
Never believe. Always question. Rebuke belief, a.k.a. bias, a.k.a. groupthink, a.k.a. ideology, the bane of skeptical, logical reason.

[–] HarveyManFredSin (4877) 2 years ago

The Golden Rule is a great rule to live by (and, fwiw, I'm not religious, not that I have any issue with people who are, assuming that they respect others).

Of course, there are many people who are genuinely oppressed, and if they don't speak up for themselves, no one else is going to.

But really, the key has to be for all of us to make an effort to look out for one another, and stand up for others, as well as ourselves.

[–] [deleted] 2 years ago

'Incel' is a stupid term. Nobody is voluntarily celibate.

If you're a man and you can't get laid, you're not presenting anything of value to women. Further, if women have written you off, go bang a call girl. It's important that a man gets laid on a regular basis. When he doesn't, he becomes violent. That's what prostitutes are for. They keep the peace.

Now, you fellows who sit at home and jerk off to porn all day, either improve yourself as a human being, or buy a hooker.

Women are NOT your enemy.

YOU are.

[–] Corbell (11004) 2 years ago

Though the people that generally get left out of the musical chairs that is interpersonal relationships, are those who don't seem to have "anything of value" to present to women,

I think that hte problem is bigger than that, and indeed biggeer than just the incels.

Couple of points about the modern dating/marriage world.

1.Plenty of women not being able to find acceptable mates.

2. plenty of women choosing careers or what have you and delaying, often till too late, starting families.

3. Plenty of men, women and children being fucked up by divorces.

4. And my favorite, we as a society have been pushing for women to have economic equality, while most women still want a man who makes MORE than them. This is a serious clash between reality and expectation.

[–] [deleted] 2 years ago

Oh, I don't disagree. The social engineering that started shortly after World War II has been spectacularly disastrous.

[–] HarveyManFredSin (4877) 2 years ago

4 is a brilliant point.

I 100% support economic equality, but as you say, there are still many women with a pre-feminist mindset. It's considered 'sexist' or 'misogynist' to ever suggest that women could possibly be to blame for the patriarchy, or anything remotely adverse, but I don't see how even the most ardent feminist could deny that there are still many women who, as you say, prefer their husbands/boyfriends to make more money than them.

As you say, it's a contradiction, because if women are finally to start making as much money as men, it stands to reason that individual women will make *more* than individual men, and if we're all truly open-minded and feminist about things, we should be perfectly relaxed with that.

Unfortunately, there are a lot of women who say they want a more feminist, equal society, where women have at least as much power as men, whilst still dating those men who are upholding the patriarchal status-quo.

For feminist men, who are dismissed as 'betas', it can be very confusing. *We're* the 'bad guys' for doing precisely what we believed feminist women wanted us to do (i.e. occasionally stand aside in their favour), and we're 'sexists' for daring to complain about rhe consequences (i.e. women choosing to mate with patriarchal, macho men who make more money than the average woman). And so, the consequence is that these 'beta'/feminist men will consequently be single/celibate.

It wouldn't be *so* bad if these men weren't then demonised for being 'incels'.

The irony and bad faith is absolutely astounding. Simple-minded/binary-minded idiots on both the feminist far-left and the misogynist far-right, aren't able to comprehend the complexities and the blatant contradictions staring us all in the face here, and so, intelligent, thoughtful feminist 'incels' are left dealing with the anxieties and the frustrations of being the 'losers' in this contradictory dynamic, in which everyone *says* "We want a more equal/feminist society"...

[–] HarveyManFredSin (4877) 2 years ago

...but NO-ONE is actually doing ANYTHING to fulful that society.

Once again, the people who pay attention to think pieces and act accordingly, seem to be the ones who miss out, whilst bloody-minded, selfish and unlearned 'Alpha' dipshits, of any gender, thrive, despite their absolute ignorance. It's the triumph of the ignorant and bullish, over the thoughtful and intellectually sophisticated.

[–] Kowalski (79132) 2 years ago

It's important that a man gets laid on a regular basis. When he doesn't, he becomes violent. That's what prostitutes are for.

🤣

[–] [deleted] 2 years ago

IT'S A CONCEPTUAL THING, KOWALKSI. I UNDERSTAND WHY YOU DON'T GET IT.

[–] HarveyManFredSin (4877) 2 years ago

Didn't you say "Women are NOT your enemy"? And yet you seem to like putting down actual women.

[–] [deleted] 2 years ago

What the fuck are you babbling about? Point out EXACTLY where you got that idea (and then post the picture of you pointing at yourself).

[–] HarveyManFredSin (4877) 2 years ago

You're rudely attacking Kowalski. Isn't Kowalski a woman?

[–] HarveyManFredSin (4877) 2 years ago

Thank you for calling out his crap.

The VIOLENT men are the one using prostitutes (many of whom will be sex-trafficked and/or desperate and poor women who feel compelled to sleep with men they secretly detest) and/or raping, molesting, assaulting and preying on women.

I don't condone sad little virgins in their basement pouring scorn on women via weirdo chat rooms. They need to get a grip. But the issue ISN'T that they're not getting laid. The reality is, some women and men are destined to be single. The issue is that they're turning to anger and hate as funnels for their sexual frustration, rather than pursuing more healthy distractions, like hobbies (e.g. building, sports, volunteering, community groups, making music etc).

Still, I maintain that pathetic incels exchanging misogynist rhetoric in private chat rooms are still not, for the most part, as dangerous as the men who commit rape, abuse prostitutes, assault their wives or girlfriends, and molest/prey/harass women and girls. There are a few Elliot Richards types who do, sadly, become mass shooters, but mass shooters are still a TINY proportion of society compared to RAPISTS and men who commit DOMESTIC VIOLENCE. Without wishing to be complacent about mass shooters, it's the latter who are arguably the much bigger social problem (and if we were able to finally sort out the access to guns, which is a uniquely American problem, mass murderers would be MUCH lower threat, seeing as there are very few other options, other than home-made bombs and vehicular murder, available for such sickos, knives not really being able to do anywhere near the same degree of damage).

[–] [deleted] 2 years ago

Provide evidence to support everything you've said here.

[–] HarveyManFredSin (4877) 2 years ago

Evidence for 'what'?

That rapists, sex-traffickers/men who use sex-trafficked women, domestic abusers and molesters, are the violent ones? 🤷‍♂️

What other claims have I made that 'I need evidence' for? Clearly a pathetic incel typing crap on his PC isn't as much as a threat to women as a man who actually rapes women, like Harvey 'Please show me mercy' Weinstein and R Kelly, no matter how misogynist and hateful the former is. That's not to condone their nonsense whatsoever, but unless we read it, I'm not sure what harm it can do us. I'd still like to speak to these men to change them, because their hate can't be doing themselves any good, but, once again, unless they're actually assaulting people, they're operating in a comparative vacuum where the harm they do is limited to themselves and other incels.

The REALLY dangerous misogynists, are the ones who have regular interactions with women, especially if those women are their wives, their girlfriends or even their daughters (but, clearly those men are NOT incels).

[–] B1cKsurN (17834) 2 years ago

Nobody is voluntarily celibate.

This is untrue. I've been on quite a bit of a break from dating, and it's of my own making. I get plenty of attention and looks from women and I just......don't care. 🤷‍♂️

It's important that a man gets laid on a regular basis. When he doesn't, he becomes violent. That's what prostitutes are for. They keep the peace.

😶🤨🤔😐😣🤔🤨 I know quite a bit of sexless dudes and they are not violent in anyway. In fact, they have such low test that they are more interested in playing Magic The Gathering, than talking to girls...unless the girls are in the playgroup.

If you meant that when high-test masculine men stop getting laid on the regular...then they become violent, I may entertain that hypothesis, but not the one you presented in your OP.

Now, you fellows who sit at home and jerk off to porn all day, either improve yourself as a human being, or buy a hooker.

🤣😂🤣😂🤣 Seriously though. Porn is fucked up, and should only be consumed in tiny tiny quantities, if at all.

Women are NOT your enemy.

This is absolutely true... However, the people women listen to, ARE our enemies. 😉

________________________
Great minds discuss ideas.
Average minds discuss events.
Small minds discuss people.

[–] HarveyManFredSin (4877) 2 years ago

All very good points B1cKsurN, although I don't understand why we're even talking about women being anyone's enemy. Clearly, incels who demonise women are assholes, and I'm certainly not going to defend such behaviour (although once again, I maintain that the biggest threat to women come from men who sexually prey on women, and NOT virgins posting misogynist crap online, not that I remotely defend the latter - acts of PHYSICAL and SEXUAL abuse, are a bigger issue than what a bunch of dickheads post on a private chat room for sexual 'inadequates', and whilst there is the fear that some of them will become Elliot Richards type murderers, I still maintain that the number of mass murderers pales in comparison to the number of rapists, men who beat up their wives/girlfriends, exploit sex-trafficked women/girls, and exploit prostitutes, and that's ignoring the fact that many mass murderers aren't even 'incels', or particularly motivated by sex to begin with).

As you say, a lot of people choose to have a break from sexual activity, for all sorts of reasons, and could thus be described as 'voluntary celibate,' and that's before one accounts for people who are permanently celibate for religious reasons.

And this is a very reasonable thought: "If you meant that when high-test masculine men stop getting laid on the regular...then they become violent, I may entertain that hypothesis, but not the one you presented in your OP," but as you say the type of 'beta' or 'nerdy' men with *relatively* low testosterone levels who are likely to be regarded as 'sexless', are not generally going to be the ones who gravitate towards violent behaviour or even violent thoughts.

And I agree about porn, although to give SandyR *some* credit, I don't think he was suggesting that consuming porn was a good thing either. His problem was in automatically assuming that any man who isn't having regular sex, must feel compelled to watch porn. I'm not a fan of porn. Never have been...

[–] HarveyManFredSin (4877) 2 years ago

I'm not a fan of anything that egregiously exploits, and dehumanises and objectifies women.

Now, as a straight man, I still appreciate the female form. I still get turned-on by a beautiful/sexy woman, but I like to feel that she is empowered (as much as anyone can be empowered, although the truth is that most of us are probably exploited in some way or another, especially anyone who is in the public eye), and being treated with dignity and respect.

There is NOTHING sexy about the abuse, egregious exploitation, debasement, oppression and mistreatment of any human-being, particularly, for me, women, speaking as a straight man.

Also, it's worth remembering that the term 'incel' was originally coined by a woman, as a gender-neutral term, which was all about EMPATHY and UNDERSTANDING between people, of all genders, who felt lonely and inadequate about their situation. It wasn't about hating or condemning one gender or another. It certainly wasn't about demonising and blaming women for any man's inability to get laid. The truth is, some people aren't going to get laid, and that IS unfortunate, and I personally feel bad for those people (and get pissed off when they're condemned for their misfortune), but that also does NOT merit the demonisation of other people, especially not women.

[–] B1cKsurN (17834) 2 years ago

I said the people that women listen to, are the enemy. Subverting a culture's women, and weaponizing them against the culture is nothing new...and goes back centuries. This time around they call it "feminism".

[–] HarveyManFredSin (4877) 2 years ago

This is one of the MOST offensive things I've seen on the internet.

'Buying a hooker' is misogyny. Treating women as chattel is misogyny. Dehumanising women and treating them as objects is misogyny. The men who do this are already committing a form of violence. The men who do this are already treating women as the enemy, or at least oppressing them.

And some people are voluntary celibate. Monks, nuns, the asexual, devout Christians, people who have chosen to swear off sex for various reasons.

Why should any man or woman 'present anything of value' to members of the opposite sex? Why should any human-being have to justify their existence? And why is sex considered more important than any other contribution to society?

Did you actually seriously think about any of this utter CRAP when you typed it, or are you just trying to be a troll?

[–] CraigC (8837) 2 years ago

No, they're just paying for sex. That is all. If the women are voluntarily doing this, no one is exploiting them. They're exploiting themselves. To claim that prostitution is men exploiting women let's them off the hook for their choice in doing so.

[–] HarveyManFredSin (4877) 2 years ago

You're right. For the most part, prostitution is a woman's choice, and I am not seeking to judge or condemn any woman who partakes in it. Still, for most women, it is an act undertaken out of financial desperation, and even those women who aren't streetwalkers, aren't sex slaves, and aren't being controlled by pimps, are still engaging in a cold, objectifying financial transaction with men who are treating them as literal sex objects.

But, as long as it's all consenting, and the men do not abuse the women involved, I don't believe in clamping down on it, and wish the women involved well, however, I still disapprove of the men who solicit prostitutes, and the mindset they must possess to view women that way.

[–] CraigC (8837) 2 years ago

But you're judging the men who partake in it, while making excuses for the women. That's a double standard. The mindset is irrelevant and I don't think it's what you think it is. Men do it to have sex with a woman. Men are simple creatures, it's no deeper than that.

Now I have no direct experience with this subject but in everything I've seen, women don't do it out of desperation. They do it because it's easier. Men don't even have the option.

Even objectification is usually a two way street. Women know they're "objectified" and they use it to their advantage. Whether it's the prostitute walking the street in a short skirt, the waitress that let's more cleavage show to garner higher tips or the trophy wife that gives up on love and romance for material things. The women couldn't be bought if they weren't for sale on some level to begin with. There are very few truly innocent parties involved. I don't say this because I hate or resent women, it's an honest observation of human behavior. Everybody is getting something out of the exchange.

[–] HarveyManFredSin (4877) 2 years ago

And you know what? That's all fine.

Still, I personally refuse to be the simp that falls for all that nonsense, and I refuse to uphold the patriarchal dynamic that has women treated as transactional objects for men's short-term gratification. It makes idiots of us all, particularly men.

And whilst I'm not saying that all men who solicit prostitutes are destined to be abusive misogynists, I can't imagine that it has a healthy effect on their minds to treat women this way.

Then again, I don't pretend to be an expert, nor do I particularly want to be one.

[–] CraigC (8837) 2 years ago

Treat women in what way? Paying a woman for sex is not abusive. If it's 100% consensual, who's the victim? IMHO, it's your opinion that's misogynistic. As if women are dainty things that must be protected from evil men. As if women can't make decisions for themselves, YOU must make them for them.

I'm no expert either, nor do I want to be one but I can recognize the fallacy in some of the logic here. I get a little tired of this cycle of perpetual victimhood. A woman that decides to be a prostitute or a stripper is not a victim.

[–] HarveyManFredSin (4877) 2 years ago

I think treating and viewing women like an object, even where the relationship is consentual, is problematic.

And I didn't specifically say tha the prostitutes themselves were necessarily victims (although, once again, many are acting out of desperation), but that it can't have a healthy impact on the men who 'purchase' their bodies.

[–] CraigC (8837) 2 years ago

I don't think it's healthy for either party. I actually pity both sides. Even people who are just promiscuous. I think they've polluted their souls with their actions. In that regard, both sides are victims of their own making. However, I do think people are free to make those dumb decisions.

[–] chilidoggg (14603) 2 years ago

"Men don't even have the option."

JIMINY CHRISTMAS!

[–] elcamino (15540) 2 years ago

We need more news about Livvy.
https://youtu.be/8JeokMVI6hU

[–] CraigC (8837) 2 years ago

People love to hate and when they don't have an excuse handy, they make one up.

Wokism is just a cult of hatred.

[–] HarveyManFredSin (4877) 2 years ago

Who said anything about 'wokism'?

How's about we just pledge to be nicer to everyone, regardless of race, gender, sex, sexuality, consenting sexual activity, ethnicity, disability, immigration-status, nationality, religion and size/shape?

[–] CraigC (8837) 2 years ago

I never heard the term "incel" until woke libtards started throwing it around as a pejorative.

[–] WandererFromYs (2406) 2 years ago

When they grouped them together and labeled them as incels, they were immediately made out to be some sort of hate group of toxic males that hate women. But I don’t think there is real group or ideology. I’m sure there is frustration and bitterness towards women, but at the same time women go around saying thing like men ain’t shit, or all men are trash, and no one really bats an eye.

It’s also a growing problem, as you stated, and society is now pushing people to be this way. If you listen to people online, there is never a good time to approach a woman in real life. Even looking at them can be considered creepy. But women also don’t approach men. So how do you meet anyone? All that’s left is online dating, which is horrible for most men.

Personally I feel sorry for these men. They aren’t a group, they are lonely and isolated, they aren’t developing the social skills to talk to woman, and if they do it’s discouraged, and anyone that tries to help them is labeled toxic.

[–] HarveyManFredSin (4877) 2 years ago

There's no excuse for misogyny and blaming women for one's single status, but in all other respects, I agree with you.

And there are mixed messages as to what one is supposed to be or do as a single man. Approaching women for dates is wrong, and yet men are still expected to make the first move. And men who are single are regardless as evil/potentially dangerous.

Like I say, there is NO excuse for hating on women, and I don't agree with incels getting together to trash women, but when people specifically target and badmouth 'incels' rather than misogynists in general, a large percentage of whom are married/in relationships, it seems that we're less bothered about misogyny per se, and more concerned with belittling the terminally single and unfortunate, which is less righteous and more akin to bullying.

[–] WandererFromYs (2406) 2 years ago

It’s a problem when all people attribute their poor dating choices to all men/women. If there is a pattern in the types of people you date, the common factor is you, and you need to figure out why you continue to pick people like that. So to be clear it’s not ok when anyone does it, but women get more of pass when they go around saying all men are trash

Correct, men have to take control of their dating life or nothing may ever happen. But when you add an extra layer of fear of cancellation top of the natural fear of rejection, many are going to not even try. Think this is a problem, and I also think more women should similarly take control of their dating life, rather than waiting to be approached when society discourages it.

On the last part, I think it’s more about hurling insults than attacking a particular group.

[–] Joyce (2) 2 years ago

th modern KKK pretty much can make the same claims.

infels have an believe everyone only cares about sex and getting more of it but only by acting like a movie stereotypical player, and make arguments that women have no free will (and are biologically programmed into making decisions)and would otherwise accept the same minded person if he didn't have the incel face..

guess what, not everyone has Nymphomania, and no one likes people who push against the idea that we all have free will (as an alpha male i was biologically programmed to kill off beta males who intrude upon my harem)

it isn't the modern KKK who are are burning crosses and lynching , still, their ideology is deplorable and it influences others to commit these crimes.

[–] HarveyManFredSin (4877) 2 years ago

I don't care for the reductionist approach to gender dynamics, but let's be real for a moment; it isn't just incels who have bought into this BS. The patriarchy, which is held up by *powerful* (i.e. rich and successful men, not 'losers') is built upon the idea that men need to have a lot of money and power to attract partners, and that sex is the ultimate goal for men.

The irony is that your hatred of celibate men actually perpetuates this atrocious system, because it puts pressure on these 'incel' men to have sex. If people like you said "Hey, you know what? It doesn't matter that much if you're single and celibate" rather than shaming 'incels', no-one would feel inadequate for not having sex.

Sorry if I'm 'vicitm-blaming' or displaying 'misogyny' here *sigh* but once again, we reap what we sow, and if people like you stopped bullying so-called 'incels' for being celibate, LOGICALLY, they wouldn't care so much about sex. Unfortunately, LOGIC seems to elude a lot of people.