We Need To Think Smart to Counter Extremism - Politics Discussion

[–] Sparky (2719) 2 years ago

Best parody thread I've seen in a while.

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[–] HarveyManFredSin (4877) 2 years ago

Parody of what?

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[–] B1cKsurN (17826) 2 years ago

I chuckled as well.

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[–] Keelai (36155) 2 years ago

They don't care about any standard. For instance, they complain about handouts and socialism, but gladly accepted multiple covid stimulus checks. They pretend to care about children, but told jokes about the young migrant child who died with her father and denounce social benefits for poor children. They thought it was fine to beat up and kill police on Jan. 6 and make light out of prosecuting those responsible.

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[–] HarveyManFredSin (4877) 2 years ago

I think this is a generalisation.

Also, these people aren't going to disappear. They're still going to vote. We have to find a way to live with these realities. And from my POV, that means working on changing views rather than just shouting at people we disagree with.

Even if you think I'm naive and misguided, what's the worst that can happen? I'm not saying we should compromise. But I am saying that we shouldn't act as if these people are going to go away, or that we can somehow make them go away. So, that being the reality, we have to work with it.

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[–] Keelai (36155) 2 years ago

What percentage of Republicans returned their stimulus checks?

Didn't the conservative media call the violent mob on Jan. 6 tourists? Didn't the Republican Party refuse to hold Trump and other organizers accountable except for Cheney and a few others who were targeted and removed?

Didn't the Republican Party support separating migrant mothers from children to dissuade asylum seekers?

Their constituents are ready to vote for Trump again even though he caused this country a great deal of damage in human lives, reputation, the economy and incited an attempt to destroy democracy and install himself as an unelected leader, aka: dictator.

I wouldn't ignore the far-right extremists and their supporters who believe turning the U.S. into a white Nationalist Christian country is a good idea.

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[–] HarveyManFredSin (4877) 2 years ago

"Didn't the Republican Party support separating migrant mothers from children to dissuade asylum seekers?"

Yes, they did, but so, alas, did the Democratic Party under Obama.

And where have I said we should ignore these people? If anything, I've argued the opposite. I said they're not going to go away, but unless we want a war (and I know some of the wingnuts on either side are desperately itching for Civil War #2), we have to fight fascism and white supremacy at the ballot box. And, guess what, as well as fighting voter suppression and getting more natural leftists/progressives registered, it might also involve flipping voters who supported Trump in 2016 (and apparently went back to the DNC in 2020). Come one, surely the results of the 2020 election, particularly in Pennsylvania and Michigan, must have taught you something.

And, I'm not backing down from arguing with some of these MFs (a few of them will never be redeemed), but I'm also going to keep an open mind about getting some of them on our side, because fighting and shouting is exhausting, but cooperation and consensus is constructive and productive.

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[–] Keelai (36155) 2 years ago

"Yes, they did, but so, alas, did the Democratic Party under Obama."

Nope. That's GOP propaganda nonsense. There were young migrant teens who came without parents during the Obama administration. That's not the same as Trump's policy which was literally child abuse by removing toddlers and small children from their mothers and then deporting the parents without their children. Very sick.

I don't know of any Democrats who want a war. That's white nationalists and other far-right extremists' goal.

Democrats are their own worst enemy. Sinema and Manchin prevented much of Biden's agenda which would've went far in helping to get more Independents and moderate Republicans on our side by helping people economically. People becoming poorer is a major reason for extremism and scapegoating marginalized people which the Republican Party created with their many tax cuts for the rich, defunding social programs, fighting minimum wage, unions and national healthcare and less expensive prescription drugs as well as their support for the Citizens United decision. Democrats need to be more aggressive and smarter.

Far right-wing extremists are a lost cause who will only support Trump, DeSantis and other Fascists and oligarchs in their Fascist Political Party aka: Republican Party. Democrats need to find ways to appeal to Independents and moderate Republicans without alienating Democrats.

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[–] HarveyManFredSin (4877) 2 years ago

I agree with most of this, but the irony is, you're making some of the points I made in my OP (i.e. reaching out to Republican voters via the implementation of and campaigning on progressive socioeconomic policies that puts money back in the hands of 'ordinary' people rather than billionaires and millionaires). Not compromising on red line issues, but also, as you say, thinking smarter when it comes to reaching out to GOP voters who may benefit from DNC policies.

Obviously, from an electoral POV, far-right extremists are a lost cause, but I also think we need to investigate why people think this way. I don't believe that any human-being is born evil and malign. I'm not making apologies for bigotry, but I do think there's a root cause for such thinking other than 'born evil'. Why do people feel aggrieved, and what can either be done to address those underlying grievances (assuming there's more to it than simply hatred of minorities and women - is it job insecurity, low wages, low self-esteem, poor socialisation/exploitation by far-right groomers), or convince them, in a reasonable way, that their 'grievances' are misguided? Is there a way to accommodate everyone, and make everyone feel welcome and valued, and avoid pushing people away, or is division and conflict inevitable?

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[–] Keelai (36155) 2 years ago

The reason(s) has already been researched by governments, political scientists and social scientists since the end of WWII in attempting to avoid another Hitler and rise of Fascism.

An environment of economic struggle along with a demagogue politician with a megaphone (mass media access) able to scapegoat the frustrations, fears, anger, hatred of a dominant group toward a marginalized group. This demagogue can alieve their fears by stating he can save them by becoming the strongman they seek for protection and maintain the current power structure.

Current fears of the "other", aka: POC, growing in number either through immigration or birth and fear replacing white male power dominance are exploited through conservative media with constant talk about the border and arming to protect oneself.

Conservatives tend to be more fearful and uncomfortable with a diverse environment. They also respond to emotional appeals more easily. They tend to like order and following a strong leader who can guide them.

Liberals are more comfortable with diversity, debating ideas, less fearful and are reached with intelligent argument rather than emotion.

The GOP, Fox, rich, and others don't want the far-right reasoned with since they are exploited and manipulated by these groups for their own goals. For instance, gun manufacturers sell more guns to fearful people.

I'll add that housing segregation put in place by Fed laws and policies also contributed to the animosity. When people socialize together, they realize everyone is the same.

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[–] HarveyManFredSin (4877) 2 years ago

I'm seeing less intellectualism, less debate, less tolerance, and less good faith, across the entire political spectrum, not just amongst the political right.

Also, for me the answer to countering irrational fears, scapegoating and punching down, is to hold ELITES, who possess more wealth, power and influence than the rest of us (i.e. millionaires/billionaires, celebrities, economic/academic/athletic/professional success stories) to account, and start enhancing and elevating the lives of ALL people.

Of course, some people regard my universalist/egalitarian message as 'offensive'. The conservative right naturally cling to an elitist system in which 'winners' and 'losers' exist (they thrive on the idea of a hierarchy in which certain groups or people 'deserve' more on account of 'superior' attributes), but it's also depressing to see some self-identifying 'leftists' (although they're more accurately described as 'centrists') shill for the 'meritocracy' (see Sir Michael Young's book 'The Rise of the Meritocracy' to understand the toxicity of such a system), rather than work towards a society in which ALL people are valued as EQUALS (and when I say "All Lives Matter" I don't mean it in a racist anti-BLM way; I mean it in the way it should be read, which is that we need to value every single individual, whilst of course accounting for systemic racism, sexism and other forms of bigotry, which affect entire *demographics* and *groups* of people).

The moment we start viewing all people and their individual contributions as equally worthy, is the moment we start to seriously counter grievance and resentment culture. If everyone is valued, there is no reasonable basis for resentment.

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[–] Keelai (36155) 2 years ago

Just keep power out of the hands of far-right extremists aka: Fascists. Independents are more likely to vote with Democrats to do that. Moderate Republicans may stay home instead of vote which is fine.

Rupert Murdoch's text messages show that Trumpites don't want truth. They want confirmation bias aka: lies, and were willing to switch from Fox to Newsmax to get it.
https://www.theguardian.com/media/2023/feb/17/fox-news-hosts-dominion-lawsuit-trump-election-fraud-tucker-carlson-sean-hannity-laura-ingraham

Good luck with taking down the rich who have divided and conquered the masses since the 1600s.

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[–] chilone (18322) 2 years ago

Hey! Keelai popped in to spout more of her lies. What a surprise.

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[–] [deleted] 2 years ago

The first thing we need to do is deal with the projection exhibited by establishment hacks like yourself.

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[–] HarveyManFredSin (4877) 2 years ago

Honestly, I'd love to be part of the establishment (it would mean I had a lot more money and power than I do). Alas, I am not. So, the fact that you think I am, is both laughable and almost flattering. And thus, because I am not part of the establishment, and I know I am not part of the establishment, my interests do not align with the establishment.

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[–] [deleted] 2 years ago

The establishment today is what is sometimes referred to as "The Left" and sometimes liberalism, though I find "The Left"/establishment to be profoundly illiberal and calling them liberals is an insult to real liberals. It is not even the "The Left," technically, as the left has traditionally fought for free speech. What we're seeing now, what normal, sane, honest people fight against with all their might, is a Corporate Leftism that is nothing short of fascism.

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[–] HarveyManFredSin (4877) 2 years ago

I'm not a corporate leftist. In fact, I detest corporate leftism, and have often been derided by pseudo-leftists who absolutely LOVE Disney and LOVE the establishment wing of the DNC and LOVE the Clintons and LOVE multi-millionaire celebrities, as being a 'fraud' for occasionally calling out such people and institutions, even from a 100% left-wing perspective.

So, feel free to think what you like about me, but I seriously doubt that the term 'corporate leftist' can be legitimately attributed to me.

That said, I'm not a complete radical or habitual contrarian either. There will be a few occasions where my values do overlap with parts of the corporate left or the establishment (I think the UK was better in the EU than out, as much as I have some misgivings about the latter; I supported COVID mandates in certain situations, for the benefit of public health; and I occasionally think the government has to intervene to mitigate centuries-old systemic sexism and racism; I also wholeheartedly believe that climate change is an issue we need to be doing more to tackle, and that the establishment is in fact doing a poor job on this front, and seems half-hearted about aligning its actions with its words).

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[–] blue1981 (8185) 2 years ago

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[–] Gd5150 (11965) 2 years ago

Bro, you believe men can have babies. You believe there are 170 genders. Yesterday you were anti war, today you’re pushing for WW3.

Your side is a laughable joke. There is no logic, no evidence, no independent thought.

Your side is continuously lied to, the lies are exposed, and never once do you question those lying to you. Russia collusion. The Pfizer vax is safe and effective. Ukraine is a wonderful pillar of democracy.

You believe what you’re told to believe. Think of the most outrageous possible thing you can think of, tomorrow it will be a pillar in the platform of the left.

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[–] Sparky (2719) 2 years ago

Excellent post.

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[–] HarveyManFredSin (4877) 2 years ago

Why do you love Putin so much? Why do you love anti-West war-mongers who invade sovereign territories? Because daddy told you?

Russia/the Soviet Union was 'the evil empire' a few decades ago, according to your lot. Now North Korean and Russian despots are our 'best buddies'.

No one wants WWIII. If we did, we'd be actively sending troops into Crimea. We know the cost of doing so. But Putin is a genocidal despot, and if he wasn't your hero, Trump's bosom buddy, you'd be agreeing with us.

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[–] B1cKsurN (17826) 2 years ago

Did you type this all out ironically, or unironically?

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[–] Bloodworth79 (5738) 2 years ago

Can you provide an example of what your talking about?

Can you debate one topic at a time?
Want to debate both sides view on border security?

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[–] B1cKsurN (17826) 2 years ago

Signs of Fascism...
https://i.redd.it/544bxqnbjsia1.jpg

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[–] tvfan (14553) 2 years ago

The “left” are fulfilling all the qualities of their fascist roots.

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[–] Sparky (2719) 2 years ago

"The supply chain is crippled. Highways, ports and infrastructure are crumbling. Blue states are banning trucks from the roads. Grocery prices are skyrocketing. Egg farms are burning to ground. Eggs cost $10 per dozen- if you can find them. Over 100 food plants have burned to the ground in the past year.

Trains are derailing. The East Palestine, Ohio train derailment may be the worst ecological disaster in U.S. history. Experts are calling it “our Chernobyl.” There is a mushroom cloud of deadly chemicals floating over the farm belt. Animals are dying. Fish are dead. People are sick. And it just happens to have poisoned hundreds of thousands of acres of prime Midwest farmland.

The same exact thing that’s happening to food and farmland, is happening to energy. Under Trump we had energy independence and cheap, plentiful energy. Under Biden we have soaring gas and electricity prices, energy shortages, depletion of our national fuel reserve. In the middle of this, our government is desperate to ban gas stoves.

Our border is wide open, with millions of illegal aliens pouring through. All of them will require cradle to grave welfare. Many of them are criminals. How many are terrorists? And through that border comes drugs. Fentanyl alone kills over 100,000 Americans per year. It sure seems like someone wants Americans dead.

Biden’s Covid vaccine mandates are causing “sudden death” and cardiac arrest by the thousands per day. Read the headlines. Death rates are the highest in history. More children and young athletes are dropping dead suddenly than ever before in our lifetimes. Yet blue states are now mandating Covid vaccines for your children to attend school. And our federal government is compiling a list of the unvaccinated. This won’t end well."

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[–] chilidoggg (14597) 2 years ago

"Under Trump we had energy independence and cheap, plentiful energy."

No we didn't. We never have, we never will. Making new tomatoes and new bullets is easy. Making new oil takes a long looooooooooooong time. `

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[–] Sparky (2719) 2 years ago

You've equated "energy" with "oil" here. And yes we had our reserves full before Biden sold it to China. What this refers to specifically though is that Trump did not stand in the way of coal miners, natural gas procurement- fossil fuel acquisition.

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[–] Sparky (2719) 2 years ago

"Chinese balloons are sent to intimidate us. Russian warplanes are buzzing our borders. Russia is threatening nuclear war. China is ready to invade Taiwan. $85 billion of military equipment was left in Afghanistan. The rest has been shipped off to Ukraine. Our military is in disarray, short on equipment, riddled with poor morale, unable to attract recruits.

Biden has based the economy on equity, social justice, diversity, LGBTQ and climate change. Result? Massive inflation is decimating the middle class. The national debt is exploding. So is the homeless population. So is violent crime and retail theft. Cities run by Democrats look like war zones filled with zombies.

The Black national anthem opens our Super Bowl, dividing our nation. Meanwhile there isn’t one black child able to do math at grade level in over 50 Chicago area schools. Insanity reigns.

Conservative voices are suspended, banned, silenced, or fired for our political beliefs. Free speech is being eradicated.

The FBI and DOJ are persecuting PTA parents, conservatives and Christians, while woke DA’s release violent criminals. Conservative TV stations like Newsmax and OAN are removed from our airwaves."

And whether its government, media, Hollywood, or schools- our entire society is now about LGBTQ and transgender ideology. It’s 24/7 brainwashing and propaganda.

Our President of the United States is clearly compromised, corrupted and owned by China. A Democrat U.S. Senator has checked into the hospital for depression. And the former Director of nuclear waste for the Energy Dept is a man, who dresses as a woman, now under indictment for stealing women’s luggage.

Our country is a freaking mess. A shell of its former self, in free fall. The people in charge could star in “One Flew Over The Cuckoos Nest.”

https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2023/02/wayne-root-proof-rigged-stolen-2020-presidential-election/