Yeah, well we can sit around and call Trump names and laugh at how stupid he is,
but the reality is that this country is under attack by forces that are just tuning up
their offenses, and the United States of America as a "democracy" in whatever form
we have been evolving to for over 200 years now is most likely to go under and die
.... in my opinion.
Look at the news today - we actually had a case brought by some state representatives
to call a national election into question because it did not go their way. No reason or
reality to this suit other than these people want to take over the country by killing the
government ... and the government has not perceived the threat, or done anything about
it because these criminals are the fucking government thanks to concentrated billionaire
money and media and bribery.
So this suit got filed, and fast-tracked to the Supreme Court ... and Justices Alito and
Thomas actually found for the suit. These people are deadly poison to American, and
they are right inside the bloodstream of our government in what would be the brain.
If you take some time to think about just this one fact, you can see the pattern going
back to the Civil War, and that's exactly what Rush Limbaugh was calling for the other
day - secession from the Union. Because the US government, after Lincoln did not have
the guts, or the military power to smash the Confederacy, and the Confederacy was
a cancer that has evolved and metastasized throughout the country and by connecting
with fascist dictators throughout the world has brought this corruption home to kill us.
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NVF (851)
4 years ago
Justices Alito and Thomas actually found for the suit
Alito and Thomas thought Texas had standing but would not provide the relief sought. Alito, writing for himself and Thomas:
...we do not have discretion to deny the filing of a bill of complaint in a case that falls within our original jurisdiction. I would therefore grant the motion to file the bill of complaint but would not grant other relief...
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brux (14724)
4 years ago
Yes, that's true.
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user111 (358)
4 years ago
But you have a point that it's remarkable that those two partisan justices actually thought the suit had standing even if they claim they would have ultimately ruled against it.
We're really fortunate the ultimate EC tally wasn't close. If it had come down to one state like 2000 I wouldn't put it past this Supreme Court to invent their own justification for delivering the election to Trump in a shameless Bush v Gore redux.
I think they were quite primed to do so, it's just that Trump didn't do his part by making it close enough that they could have delivered him the W.
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brux (14724)
4 years ago
If you are so inclined you may listen to this just out video-fied podcast of the Peter B. Collins show with Greg Palast where Greg talks about voter fraud in the USA ... where in the USA his articles cannot even be published anywhere.
2020-12-11 PBC Actual Last Interview: Greg Palast Comments on 2020 Election Hijinks *
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QoZMGd0SuRw&t=921s
Greg can prove that Gore won 2000, which I think most of us know, but that also Kerry won 2004 - because voter suppression was so powerful. Imagine what a great situation this country would be in if Bush had not been appointed in 2000. Republicans stole trillions of dollars from the future of America ... and though it is 20 years later that money MUST be recovered and put back in operation to fix the country, the people and the infrastructure.
* Unfortunately this was Peter B. Collins has just retired and this was his very last show, or so he says.
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user111 (358)
4 years ago
Great listen. Thx.
I thought it was so ironic how Georgia went for Biden given just how deep voter suppression runs in Georgia. It was especially delicious to see Trump turn on Brian Kemp of all people. That guy took disenfranchising voters to a whole new level when he was state AG which he put to immediate use for his own benefit in his election victory over Stacey Abrahams for the governorship. Trump must have been aware of that too and thought Kemp would deliver him the win.
The fact is that Republicans have long had a stranglehold on all branches of state government in Georgia due to successful voter suppression tactics. That gave me an inkling of just how much Biden must have really won the state by for him to eek out the win on paper by 20k votes. Palast put the real number closer to a quarter mil, which is totally believable given the history of GOP shenanigans in Georgia.
It really would be fitting if it turns out that Stacey Abrams get out the vote registration drives in Georgia end up capturing a Dem Senate. I don't have my hopes up, I think it'll be an uphill battle given the stakes and the entire GOP apparatus of the state and federal judiciary doing everything they can to ensure that doesn't happen. But Palast's thesis, that the GOP has abandoned Trump because they're fixated on the Georgia Senate outcome, is entirely credible.
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brux (14724)
4 years ago
In the podcast Palast talks about retiring and leaving it to someone else. That is sad, and scary because he has been at it for over 20 years now, and all he got was existed to the UK, and even there he got a lot of kickback. Finally after 20 years Democrats under threat of political extinction or assassination understood the issue and did something about it ... but it prove that Democrats do not really care if they win or not. Our political system is theater, a reality show ... or maybe an unreality show.
Politics in this country is totally all about money. This is a complicated subject because there is an argument that the people who are placed to know how the economy works and have the most invested in the system have understanding and opinions that are more valid than the riffraff on the extreme of both sides. How do we tell if something is a "serious voter", a student of politics who pays attention to the news and current events? But how also do we think disenfranchising someone because they are voting out of desperation and persecution is fair?
I do not think Biden would have won this election if voter suppression had not been conscious, public and worked hard against. I think Palast is the one who should have gotten Time's man of the year.
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user111 (358)
4 years ago
"there is an argument that the people who are placed to know how the economy works and have the most invested in the system have understanding and opinions that are more valid than the riffraff on the extreme of both sides"
Yes but this argument is completely antithetical to democracy and the "one person one vote" ideal that I was taught that American democracy stood for when I was growing up.
I understand the appeal of the plutocratic argument. It's hard not to think we'd be better off if the uneducated were not allowed to vote, especially given the polling that suggests the best predictor of whether a voter supports Trump is whether they went to college. But in the end, it's still undemocratic and elitist. The haves can't be expected to fairly represent the interests of the have nots, even more so when they lack a seat at the table.
Plus, while it's true that moneyed interests might have more vested in the system that doesn't necessarily mean their opinions are more valid. The self centered opinion of a billionaire like Carl Icahn who is always out to exploit the weak and poor while not giving two shits about the environment or whatever else wanton damage he wrecks. From his own actions, it's clear he never considers the bigger picture. His opinion is squarely centered on maximizing his own profits and his class of oligarchs. I find the idea that his myopic worldview should somehow be considered more valid than uneducated riff raff voting for Trump to be uncompelling. They're both in the same boat.
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brux (14724)
4 years ago
>> Yes but this argument is completely antithetical to democracy and the "one person one vote" ideal that I was taught that American democracy stood for when I was growing up.
No one is more of a Democrat/Liberal/Progressive than I am, but today we have an odd demographic situation. Just look at the people stupid enough to vote for Trump ... 70 million of them. No, I have grave misgiving about 1 person, 1 vote.
That said, as Churchill stated, democracy is the worst form of government, except for all the others.
I don't know how we could move towards direct democracy, but I do think that should be one of our national goals - I just do not think it would work right now, and besides we are a Republic, and what has failed is that a group of monied interests runs the country with their goal being a kind of slavery or genocide of poor people and minorities - so democracy is good right now - but 70 million people do not know what is good for them.
I know I am taking liberties saying that about people, like Biden telling the blacks if they voter for Trump they are not black - but he had a point. Some people do not know how to perceive political reality.
Stupid people are leveraged more by Republicans to push an agenda that is killing them.
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user111 (358)
4 years ago
I don't disagree but Biden did get 7 million more votes.
I don't fault democracy, I fault the fucked up vestigial electoral college the founders saddled us with. It's the only reason the last two elections have been at all close with the wrong candidate winning the last time.
There will be always be stupid people in every society. Plus, I have family members who voted Trump. Not because they're stupid, they're all highly educated and attended some of the best schools. It's because they're part of the moneyed elite who always vote with their wallets first. They vote for the party they think is going to tax them less and give scant consideration to anything else, not because they had any special affinity for Trump. Their vote is not going to go away from depriving the uneducated the right to vote, and there are a lot of people with similar mentalities that vote like my mother and brother. There are also a lot of uneducated that vote Democrat. It wouldn't be right to deprive them representation.
I see the electoral college a the real culprit. The founding fathers should not be idolized for saddling us with that relic. In fact the electoral college was designed precisely because the founders didn't trust everyone to choose their leaders. It was their way of depriving the uneducated the right to vote, and look where that's led us.
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brux (14724)
4 years ago
Read some Greg Palast, or listen to this talks or interviews. The man has spent 20 years tracking down proof and the details on how Republicans have fixed the vote. There were many millions more votes that were disenfranchises ... 7 or 8 million is just the lower bound of Biden's win, and the number of voters who are Liberal or Progressive in America.
If you are really rich it is not stupid to vote for Trump and I was not referring to those people ... or the deluded people who think they are really rich or will be some day. That is a combination of stupid and immoral.
We should get rid of the Electoral College, it is undemocratic and a problem, but it is not a primary problem ... the real primary problem in America is that we have a plutocratic, authoritarian elite who has run the country since its inception and has fought every step towards democracy and justice the whole time.
I think we pretty much agree on these issues.
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user111 (358)
4 years ago
Oh I'm very familiar with Palast's work and how successful republican disenfranchisement efforts have been over the last couple decades. I probably haven't listened to him as much as you have but I have casually followed him and I'm very familiar with the shenanigans in Georgia and elsewhere that he's covered. There's no reason at all for Texas to still be a red state fixture but for successful GOP disenfranchisement efforts that leaves it with the lowest voter turnout percentage of all the states in the union. That is by design. And other southern states with GOP control over its state apparatus adopt Texas and Georgia voter suppression tactics to maintain control of their state houses. Plus the Supreme Court striking down the 50 year old Voting Rights Act was a real blow. If it wasn't for the fallout from that, North Carolina would be blue.
It truly is tragic that a trooper like Palast is retiring. I only learned that from the link you provided.
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brux (14724)
4 years ago
I hope he was just talking about taking a vacation. I was lucky enough to have a friend/relative of mine direct me to his first book "The Best Democracy Money Can Buy" when it first came out. I just could not believe that is has taken 20 years to bear fruit. That's just sickening.
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