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Did Mace Windu defeat sidious or was he playing possum to manipulate...

posted 8 years ago by Nocountryforoldmovies
12 replies | jump to latest

...anakin into turning?

Most people are under the impression that sidious was toying with mace and pretended to be beaten to sway anakin. Now there are some people who believe that mace actually beat sidious and was going to kill him.
If you read the eu you would know that windu invented and practiced a jedi lightsaber form called vaapad, a variation of juyo that channels your opponents darkness to use it against them. It is described as more of a mindset than a form because it brings the practitioner very close to the darkside. In order to use vaapad you have to relish in the victory of the battle. (Darth maul was a practitioner of juyo, just to give you an idea.)Mace was a master of vaapad and could use it without losing himself to the darkside. Some people believe that mace was the perfect storm sort of speak to fight sidious and with his usage of vaapad was able to gain the upper hand.
I always thought that mace was being toyed with simply because even without a lightsaber sidious is so powerful with force lightning that he could kill mace if he went full tilt. Since i have read more about mace and after rewatches of episode 3, i am torn. I would like to think mace was going to kill/could've sidious but because of the prophecy anakin was destined to interfere. It makes mace so much more interesting due to his knowledge and power.
What do you think?

http://www.imdb.com/list/ls063670214/

[–] LostKiera 8 years ago

I think Sidious was exaggerating how defeated he was, but I think Mace was also providing him with a tough fight and he was aware Mace might well beat him.

[–] Nocountryforoldmovies 8 years ago

Maybe your right, everytime i watch episode 3 i can never decide lol.

http://www.imdb.com/list/ls063670214/

[–] Jeorj Euler 8 years ago

I find this to be is infinitely debatable. Supposedly the script stated that Mace defeats Sidious. If I recall correctly, the novelization implies however that Sidious threw the fight. The duel seemed kind of poorly choreographed or even cinematographed, so it looks like Sidious had multiple opportunities to defeat Mace, but passed them over.

My conjecture is that Sidious spent so much energy flipping around and taking down the initial three Jedi councilmembers that he got tired, when the duel would've otherwise been a stalemate. For the Revenge of the Sith IMDb FAQ, there is a Q&A item created by the IMDb user Kylo_Ren, and in it, he pointed out that Mace is the most powerful Jedi, which is quite plausible. The answer of course has been edited by others to include the notion that Sidious may have thrown the fight.

Anyway, there is no doubt that Sidious was manipulating Anakin, even if the didn't throw the fight.

[–] Nocountryforoldmovies 8 years ago

Mace certainly was more effective than yoda if you look at the outcome of both duels. But i hear you when you say that it is infinitely debatable because i certainly cannot decide.

http://www.imdb.com/list/ls063670214/

[–] Jeorj Euler 8 years ago

I'd imagine that Sith have in in their cultural heritage to fight and run away if they are not successful at slaying or completely incapacitating their opponents, whereas Jedi will generally avoid fleeing (or hiding or playing possum), like unless they are outnumbered. The Jedi are accustomed to being in pursuit, whereas the Sith are accustomed to being pursued. The Jedi are accustomed to opponents backing down without a fight, whereas the Sith surprise their opponents.

[–] GorchBrother 8 years ago

I don't think he deliberately took a faceful of force lightning in a faint hope that Anakin would decide he needed his powers.

I doubt Windu would have been taken in by Sidious playing rope-a-dope either.

Palpatine may have played up his vulnerability a lot, but he was genuinely losing.

"Who can't use the Force now?! I can still use the Force!" - Yarael Poof

[–] Nocountryforoldmovies 8 years ago

I see your point. Do you think sidious was fatigued after taking down the first 3 jedi masters?

http://www.imdb.com/list/ls063670214/

[–] GorchBrother 8 years ago

I don't know. It would have been a big jump to go from non-combatant Palpatine to a Sith capable of taking out four Jedi single handed withing seconds.

Although it's already a little bit strange that two of the Jedi immediately fall like novices.

Anyway. The idea that Palpatine planned to toy with however many Jedi came to arrest him until Anakin decided to leave the temple to make an intervention, and then pretend to be no match for Windu when Skywalker did show up, is really far fetched and unnecessary.

Sidious's objective was the destruction of the Jedi. Either Anakin was going to choose to help him or Sidious would be destroyed. I think Sidious accepted those stakes and accepted that the risk was worth it.

"Who can't use the Force now?! I can still use the Force!" - Yarael Poof