MovieChat Forums > Loki (2021) Discussion > Biggest problem with Marvel's Disney+ sh...

Biggest problem with Marvel's Disney+ shows

posted 3 years ago by Abed303 (282)
22 replies | jump to latest

The biggest fault of all Marvel's new shows is their release schedules.

I tend to binge watch shows and if given the choice I would have watched Loki in one or two sittings.

By releasing episodes once a week, it creates this opportunity to speculate with friends, family, and coworkers. It has created a whole market of review sites and channels on many different platforms, many of which provide robust background information from the comics. I enjoy dissecting each episode and reading others' interpretations. This makes it fun to wait for each episode.

This is also biggest fault of these shows. If Disney is going to invite such speculation. it needs to make sure what it has is better. That just isn't the case, and a lot of fan theories seem more rewarding in hindsight. A perfect example... Ralph Bohner.

If i binge watched any Disney+ Marvel show I never would have had the time between episodes to form or read about any theories. I think I'd be much more accepting of what I watched and not as let down.

There are things I love about Loki and others that I think sloppy. I will give the show the benefit of the doubt until the last two episodes air though.

[–] msegmx (444) 3 years ago

.. or they could just continue releasing weekly episodes *and* give us consistent, non-misleading and plausible stories.

[–] AP (5288) 3 years ago

Wandavision mostly shit the bed in terms of giving very little reward for a great deal of hype. I thought FAWS did a hood job of delivering some new facets of the MCU. As you said, we kinda have to wait and see the last two episodes of Loki. Strangely enough, though, most if the fan speculation has been true (Lady Loki, Richard E Grant as older Loki, the Time Keepers are fake, etc.)

[–] kuatorises (7467) 3 years ago

Yeah, no. That's a you problem. This is how normal TV works. TV shows having been released weekly for decades. This is not new, nor is all the discussion each week. BSG, Lost, Sopranos, and even GoT boards were HUGE. Mere seconds after each episodes were released, they were flooded with discussion. It was great.

And no, Mephisto ramdonly being thrown in in addition to another villain would not have made much sense at all.

[–] Abed303 (282) 3 years ago

Television shows are open ended, written to be as long as they stay popular. The writing often bends to the will of public opinion. Disney+ Marvel shows are essentially mini-series, written with a set story for a single season. An entire show is done filming before any of the episodes release. Shows like BSG, Lost, and GOT were all criticized for their later/last seasons because the writers were just making it up for as long as they could. When Netflix started dumping shows on the public a season at a time the conversations changed. In my experience, discussion was saved until people watched the whole season.

I remember being disappointed when The Boys switched to a weekly release, but the show didn't leave me disappointed. All of the speculation and discussion didn't outweigh the end product. I think the Marvel shows were primarily made to be essential viewing for the MCU to increase Disney+ subscriptions. The shows are then stuffed with Easter eggs that tease future releases. Finally after all of those boxes are checked story is considered. I believe the creators of The Boys were primarily focused on telling a story. Many of the Marvel theories are made to try and work out the inconsistencies that Disney's priorities for the shows have created. Many of them are trying to find meaning in what is ultimately discovered to be filler. This is the problem.

Also, I never mentioned any specific fan theories. So, Mephisto being thrown in with another villain, that's a you problem.

[–] alienzen (1931) 3 years ago

"Many of them are trying to find meaning in what is ultimately discovered to be filler"

I think this is the biggest sin that the shows have committed. And it didn't have to be that way. Half of the people who watched the Avengers movies never watched the solo ones, and they were still able to follow along despite important things happening to the characters in those movies. Were people who didn't watch Ragnarok bothered that Thor had lost his hammer and had short hair all of a sudden? what about people who didn't watch Doctor Strange seeing him at the beginning of Infinity War doing magic? One line from Tony Stark caught people up "they came from space to steal a necklace from a wizard". Hell, Professor Hulk happened off screen and we were still able to follow along.
So why are they suddenly afraid of making things of consequence happen in the Disney+ shows? People will be able to catch up without having to watch all of the series.

[–] Abed303 (282) 3 years ago

I think there are definitely consequences, but those consequences and what they mean in the Feige-master-plan are the only reasons for the rest. (spoilers on all of the D+ marvel shows) Viewers that skip these shows will suddenly be reintroduced to a living Vision, and maybe even his and Wanda's children. Next time Sam Wilson is in a movie he'll be in a Captain America costume (although endgame sets this up) and we're sure to run into John Walker at some point. Loki is almost certainly going to end with this Loki's or Sylvie's involvement in later films and obviously the multiverse is fleshed out.

Before Disney+ Marvel shows were criticized for not affecting the MCU at all so they full tilt in the other direction and made it the prime directive. These shows are meant to lay groundwork for the movies and, i guess, maybe it will make futures movies better. Films like Thor 2 or Age of Ultron sacrificed a lot to be a cog in the MCU machine. Imagine seeing either of those films formatted as a series over several weeks.

[–] kuatorises (7467) 3 years ago

You are just changing your tune/moving the goal posts now. One minute it's how the show is released, now it's that they are miniseries' that are meant to be 1 season. Ok, bud.

"Also, I never mentioned any specific fan theories. So, Mephisto being thrown in with another villain, that's a you problem. "

Didn't you? *clears throat*

"This is also biggest fault of these shows. If Disney is going to invite such speculation. it needs to make sure what it has is better. That just isn't the case, and a lot of fan theories seem more rewarding in hindsight. A perfect example... Ralph Bohner."

[–] Abed303 (282) 3 years ago

There's no moving of the goal posts, this is a discussion and you progressed it. The release schedule and the writing are two different aspects of the show. I brought up how the format of the show can affect the writing because you mentioned several shows that were incredibly popular, but also widely criticized for sloppy writing at the end of their runs. The writing gets sloppy because the're just making it up as they go, for as long as they can. While changes might have been made during production, Loki had a complete script before production began. I'd expect the writing to be tighter. Again I brought that up because you mentioned other shows. Discussions progress; it's irrational to assume that you can comment on someone's post, but they cannot reply. My reply was a direct response to what you wrote.

There were multiple theories surrounding the Evan Peter's role in the show. What we got was Ralph Bohner. So no, no mention of Mephiso. I mentioned what made it into the show, not what didn't.

[–] kuatorises (7467) 3 years ago

You: Makes a statement.

Me: That's not really true.

You: I never said that.

Me: Bangs head against the wall.

[–] Abed303 (282) 3 years ago

Instead of discussing anything you'd rather clear your throat or bang your head against a wall. It seems clear that you're not interested in a discussion.

I'm not saying the show would be objectively improved by changing the release schedule, not t all. I'm saying that I would be more likely to take it at face value if I binged it. I wouldn't be looking for meaning behind things that turn out to be filler or mistake. When WV and FAWS aired, conversations between friends, coworkers and I built up over the weeks as we guessed at the possibilities of what was happening. When each show concluded there as a general consensus that they fell flat. Our guessing seemed more fun that the shows and in retrospect it negatively affected our impression of them.

I was hoping we'd get something a little different in these shows (CAWS pulled that off), but realize now that I need to treat them like cartoons to enjoy them. I'm not knocking the shows. They're great for what they are.

[–] kuatorises (7467) 3 years ago

Spare me your fake outrage. You made a point, it was proven wrong, and you're trying to act like it never happened. You want people to agree with you, not to have a discussion. You're just looking for confirmation bias.

[–] Abed303 (282) 3 years ago

There's no outrage here at all. I don't care if people agree with me or not, but I do want to talk about it. You don't seem willing to do much more than attack me, so a discussion seems less and less likely with you.

I think Otter already proved me wrong down below, honestly (the release schedule being the shows biggest asset as far as Disney is concerned). I agreed.

[–] [deleted] 3 years ago

You want people to agree with you, not to have a discussion. You're just looking for confirmation bias.

Way to project there, kuato. That's literally all you've been doing on this site 😄

[–] kuatorises (7467) 3 years ago

Sorry, do I know you?

[–] [deleted] 3 years ago

I'm your conscience, we haven't spoken in a while.

[–] Goliard (1420) 3 years ago

LMAO

[–] Stratego (30497) 3 years ago

All true.👍

[–] kukuxu (5409) 3 years ago

It's called Mystery Box. JJ Abrahms has been using it for years.
https://www.ted.com/talks/j_j_abrams_the_mystery_box

It's a great technique to create hype. But it goes down quickly once you see there's no reward. The trick is to start it, ride the wave, reap the profits, and get out before the shit hits the fan.

[–] Otter (24464) 3 years ago

Since the ONLY reason Disney is paying for these fantastically expensive Marvel programs is to draw new subscribers to Disney Plus, don't expect things to change.

They WANT people talking about a show that can only be seen on Disney Plus, they want chatter and speculation and public discussion, and they want it going on every week! They want noise about their unique programming on the internet and on social media and in the line at Starbucks, they want to drive the non-subscribers crazy with overheard speculation! So don't expect any change of the policy.

[–] Abed303 (282) 3 years ago

I must say that's a great point. When you put it like that, perhaps the speculation is more valuable than the quality of the content. After all once the show finishes airing it's just sitting there for late-comers to binge.

I don't expect things to change. I just realize that it's losing my interest, and those are the reasons. Maybe its just superhero fatigue, but I was hoping that Disney would offer some variation in tone. FAWS started to offer something different with Bucky's mental health but it was sanitized for younger audiences. What a blown opportunity at the end of the series when Bucky confessed to that old man. It was basically lifted from The Bourne Supremacy, but stripped of any emotion. What a waste of Sebastian Stan there. It didn't need to be explicit, but Bucky didn't have to just say "I didn't have a choice". No payoff at all to that buildup with that man, Bucky torturing himself by befriending him and learning how hollow his life is without his son. This was a moment that has been building since CAWS, he finally accepts what happened and is ready to start living again.

[–] Otter (24464) 3 years ago

"When you put it like that, perhaps the speculation is more valuable than the quality of the content."

I think you got it in one sentence, there! The same thing is going on with all the major streaming services, like Amazon reportedly paying $200mil for a "Lord of the Rings" series, that's just to draw new subscribers in, and draw subscribers away from Hulu and Netflix.

I like the new series, I'm enjoying the ride, and I'm sure as hell not going to lose interest just when they've shown me Richard E. Grant sneering away in a Loki costume! But that's just me.

[–] Abed303 (282) 3 years ago

I'm holding judgement on Loki until the end. I'm enjoying it as well. I'm excited for Grant, but I was also excited to see Evan Peters in WandaVision. There are parts of the series that I think are awesome, and others that I can't understand. For example, such emphasis on the water rings on the table in that meeting but Mobius had some form of liquor without ice. Water rings wouldn't be possible. How did nobody notice that on set? It's so glaring it makes me question if there's some significance to it.

The superhero fatigue was in reference to what I see is an increase in those type of moments in the MCU as a whole. I feel like these types of details were cared about more in earlier phases. Maybe not, it's been ages since I've seen any of the older movies.