Altough i think MCU already had some flops,altough they dont want to admit it (Ant-Man 1 and 2,Thor:The Dark World), i think this one could be a very big flop. The only thing this movie is promising is to be "woke",there is not other reasons to be hyped for this movie so far. So i dont know,i think it might be a big flop for MCU this one.
shareIt could be a flop, but it also could be amazing. I'm gonna guess it's somewhere in the middle, but does above average financially, just based on how many people I know that want to see it. As for being woke, Iron Man was pretty woke but did amazing, so there's that.
shareThe first Iron Man you mean?
shareYep.
shareI dont know if it was woke but i believe it had success because it had great characters and story
shareIt was and is probably the most woke MCU film to date, but it also had great characters and story. Hence my opinion that The Eternals could be amazing despite this idea of wokeness.
shareI'm not against The Eternals being woke,i'm just saying that the only things people talk about when they talk about The Eternals so far is its wokeness. So far there are no other kind of discussions about this movie. If they indtroduce Thanos,maybe people will also talk about the plot.
shareFair. Personally, I haven't heard people talking about it at all.
shareHow was Iron Man 1 woke?
shareIn a movie about terrorists, the terrorists aren't the worst offenders. The entire movie is about Tony realizing that he and Stark Industries are entirely complicit in the acts of terrorism they're supposedly fighting against - to the point where the terrorists can only commit crimes after receiving S.I weapons - and undoing his own mistakes. He only becomes a hero because the biggest villain of the film is Obadiah Stane, who basically represents corporate greed. But the movie doesn't hide the fact that Stane was only able to ascend into villainy because of Tony's creations, ignorance and support.
shareSorry, maybe I'm slow, but you just described the movie. What part of it is 'woke'?
shareThe movie is entirely concerned with social justice and also addresses racial justice in some ways. Not to mention the fact that the villain is a white male, which most people treat as woke, and the most morally upright person is James Rhodes aka Rhodey, a POC.
shareI can see why you would consider it as "woke" when you say it like that, especially considering what side Tony took in Civil War, but I must respectfully disagree.
At its core, being "woke" implies they're pushing a real-world misinformed political narrative at the expense of quality story-telling, which wasn't the case with Iron Man 1. Not only were the politics in Iron Man not obnoxious like you'd see in today's movies, comics, and games, but people on both sides actually agree and acknowledge that American politicians and mega-corps side with terrorists, hell they're doing it now with Palestine, BLM, and Antifa.
The villain being White male alone doesn't make it woke since most action movies are like that. Having a black friend be the conscience isn't considered woke either, especially since Rhodes is from the comics and has always been Tony's closest friend. Both of those points are over-reaching when claiming the movie is "woke".
Of course there are MCU movies that had woke elements, most notably the black-washing of characters in Thor, Spider-Man, Ant-Man, and Doctor Strange (while also White-washing the Ancient One to not piss off China) among others, all of which have been called out by the fans. I'm sure Iron Man 1 has some woke elements if it were picked apart, but what I think people are saying is that "Eternals" as a whole will be woke like how Captain Marvel was, not just from the characters being race-washed and gender-swapped, but the obnoxious Left-biased themes and the plot it self, all at the expense of quality story-telling and entertainment value.
Tbh I don't really care for the term woke, but I'm mostly going off of its original meaning, which was to be enlightened or aware of social and racial justice. Also, the position Tony took in Civil War has no bearing on the position he took in Iron Man 1, considering the films were released eight years apart.
I also find the politics to be very blatant, if not obnoxious. Iron Man seems to get a pass for this where other films don't even though its openly putting a lot of blame on US corporations and politicians at a time when I don't think people were as quick to agree, and it's doing so in a way where even the main character himself is responsible for the villainy.
The villain being White male alone doesn't make it woke since most action movies are like that. Having a black friend be the conscience isn't considered woke either
Tbh I don't really care for the term woke, but I'm mostly going off of its original meaning, which was to be enlightened or aware of social and racial justice.
I concur that most people don't see it as woke; I just tend to disagree for the reasons stated. I only meant to say that no one should let a definition affect them on liking any movie that adopts that definition because frankly, if I like a movie, there's not much that can deter me from liking it, let along a term whose meaning has been abused and overused.
shareSomething to consider, WOKENESS seems to always lead to lesser quality.
Imagine Iron Man without the woke elements.
First of all, it is silly to pretend the terrorists NEED high tech American weapons to commit acts of terrorism.
Second of all, What if the bad guy, was just the terrorist leader and he put together the idea of kidnapping and forcing Tony to build weapons, all on his own?
His Iron Legion of terrorists idea to conquer, "Asia" would have been a fine supervillain plot.
You could have had all the rest of the drama of Tony wanting to keep the tech himself, and a big Iron Man vs bad Iron Man boss fight at the end.
Would anyone have been offended if the movie did NOT paint America weapon companies as "Bad"?
Yeah, I guess the potential for a not-so-big-success-at-the-box-office is there. The Eternals are not as known as super heros to the general public. I was into comics when I was a kid and a teen but I don't know about The Eternals. They probably would need more bigger names in the cast to attract as much people as the other MCU movies. Then again, maybe an aggressive and catchy publicity campaign, building anticipation over months, can take care of that. We'll have to see but I don't really feel it either.
shareI am a bit confused. You mention you think Ant Man 1 and 2 and Thor Dark World were flops.
I believed that a movie needs to make between 3 and 4 times its budget to succeed (i.e. not a flop.)
Ant Man1 had a budget of 130 million with a ww box office of 519 million. That is a result of 3.99 times the budget.
Ant Man 2 had a budget of 163 million with a ww box office of 622 million; 3.84 times budget
Thor Dark World had a budget of 170 million with a ww box office of 644 million; 3.78 times budget.
So, as far as I can see none of them were flops. They weren't smash hits either, but they would be considered successful films.
For the MCU standars where flops. Not only financially but also critically. Nobody talks about Ant-Man honestly
shareI think people misunderstand what a flop is. A movie with a modest budget that makes enough money for the studio isn't a blockbuster but it's not a flop either. It's just a movie that succeeded financially. As for critical acclaim, all three movies you mentioned have decent scores across the board and fit the average MCU film.
shareThey paid the bills, but that's it.
Right now, a movie needs to make 4 times its budget to break even and pay back both movie budget and marketing budget (that uses to be as big as the movie budget).
They didn't flop, but they didn't make money neither. They just paid the budget.
You know the number keeps changing. 2x, 3x, now 4x when does it become 5x.
Regardless Antman did 3.99 x. That's pretty close. The others weren't far off either.
Of course they made money, you don't know what you're talking about.
They made money in the box office alone, and we're not even starting to consider the impact they had with advertising, toys, expanding the brand of the series, being now part of the streaming service, and so on.
They were all fresh on RottenTomatoes.
The lowest score on IMDB is 6.9, which is average but not god-awful.
Conclusion: they are by absolutely no means flops. They are just underperformers when compared to all other MCU movies.
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I don't know if it'll flop, but I know I have no interest in seeing it. I don't know the characters, its not an important part of the Marvel universe to me, and literally the only thing I've heard or read about it has to do with how diverse it is, which really isn't a selling point to me, in and of itself.
share100% agree so far they are not promoting it very well i think. They promote this movie just for its wokeness and for the fact that is directed by Chloe Zhao. But they dont talk about the characters.
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They were wrong about Black Panther and Captain Marvel flopping, no reason to listen to them again.
shareSince the Eternals was first announced I know more about the characters sexual orientation and skin colour over the actual plot and story.
Should tell you everything.
Sure. It tells me you haven't seen this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M72wg8Fh8Ms
Yer welcome.
Nothing in that video explains the plot of Eternals.
It is 12 mins of completley opinion based material based on the fact Thanos is an Eternal. Which I already knew.
The whole video is typical youtube clickbait assumptions with the trailer repeating itself.
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