The show ends with a light saber duel between Kenobi and Vader where Kenobi defeats Vader but leaves without killing him. Ummmmmm didn’t that already happen? And I feel like this kind of lessens the emotional impact of their epic rematch in Episode IV
shareIt seems to establish that:
a) A motivated Obi-Wan is capable of defeating either Anakin or Darth Vader. He beat him the first time due to landing on the "high ground", despite being evenly matched in lightsaber skills. He beat him the second time, because Obi-Wan developed an even stronger connection to the light side of the Force after his exile on Tattooine and spiritual journey.
b) However, Obi-Wan will always be incapable of destroying or redeeming Anakin, no matter what kind of atrocities he commits. Luke is the only one who can get his father to flip on the Emperor.
But, yes, I agree that the more clashes Obi-Wan has with Anakin, the more it hammers the audience over the head that he threw the fight during their final showdown.
Just my opinion.
A) When he said “its over Anakin, I have the high ground” he was simply trying to talk him down, he didn’t know for a fact that he was going to win. And the fact that they did fight 2 times in between ROTS and ANH just cheapens the moment where they meet again in ANH
B) He very easily could have killed him at the end of Kenobi, but he didn’t because the sequel had already been released. The writers knew this going in and they should have found a better excuse for Kenobi not to kill him. Honestly this show didn’t do anything that hadn’t already been done in either ROTS or ANH. At the end of Kenobi things are exactly how they were at the end of ROTS.
The implication by Lucas that the galaxy just went to sleep and there was no story to be told in between Episodes III and IV cheapened the saga more than anything else has. At the end of ROTS, Kenobi thought he'd killed his friend and brother. But in ANH Kenobi knows all about Anakin/Vader. So this show at least fills that plot hole.
shareVader was well known throughout the galaxy by episode IV, we didn’t need this. He was second in command of the entire galaxy , if Obi wan wasn’t able to figure out Vader was Anakin then he’s stupid
shareApparently Vader isn't known throughout the galaxy during this series.
The only person who we know has heard of Vader in ANH is Leia.
He was well know throughout the galaxy in episode IV, we are smart enough to fill in the gaps
shareA princess was aware of him. That's all. Luke had never heard of Darth Vader.
shareThat same princess also didn’t know Obi wan Kenobi, she knew who he was but hadn’t met him “years ago you served my father in the clone wars”, if they knew each other she wouldn’t have said that.
Also I’m sure you’re referring to Kenobis line “a young Jedi named Darth vader” however that only proves that Kenobi thought Luke didn’t know who vader was, That doesn’t prove luke didn’t know who he was.
Bullshit.
Ha! Your contradicting yourself. Leia not mentioning her adventures with Kenobi proves that they can't have happened, but Kenobi talking to Luke about Vader as if he's not heard of him doesn't prove that Luke has not heard of Vader.
I’m not contradicting myself. If Leia had met Kenobi she wouldnt’ have established the connection to him through Bail Organa. I’m sorry but this show makes A New Hope make less sense.
As for your second point I didn’t say that the dialogue between Obi Wan and Luke proved that Luke didn’t know of Vader, it proved that Obi Wan didn’t think Luke knew of Vader, there’s a difference.
I’m not contradicting myself. If Leia had met Kenobi she wouldnt’ have established the connection to him through Bail Organa.
Exactly...
shareAnd the fact that they did fight 2 times in between ROTS and ANH just cheapens the moment where they meet again in ANH
If we're being honest, Revenge of the Sith is what cheapens it. Obi-Wan Kenobi show is a well-executed show and it leads perfectly into Star Wars. Revenge of the Sith is a terrible film, and a terrible lead-in to Star Wars. Were I allowed to choose only one thing to show to someone about to watch Star Wars who has never seen anything Star Wars related, I think he'd be far better served to watch the Kenobi show than Revenge of the Sith.
shareRevenge of the Sith was pretty damn good, not perfect but miles better than anything Disney ever churned out. Kenobi wasn’t all bad, I didn’t actually think Reva gave a bad performance and I liked the idea behind her character despite the fact that it was poorly executed. But honestly if we count Kenobi as canon it really just makes the storyline choppier and less impactful.
sharePersonally, I'd rate Revenge of the Sith among the worst films ever made, primarily based on its budget and expectation vs. how bad it is. There are certainly worse films if we are comparing them straight up, but they're usually made for pennies with no-name actors and churned out by c-rate directors for d-rate studios. If you enjoy it, so be it, but I think it fails on every possible level.
shareUmmm no way ROTS is one of the worst films ever made. Sure it’s not perfect and it’s not the best Star Wars movie (I ranked it 3rd) but it’s still really good and it’s far better than any of the shit Disney came up with.
shareRevenge of the Sith is solidly entrenched in 9th place in my rankings. :)
shareOK then it’s beyond obvious I shouldn’t take you seriously.
shareOr we have different opinions on films, but can still have a friendly discussion without rudely dismissing one another? It's not like I'm telling you I think you're an idiot for liking the film. You like it, it speaks to you on some level, and that's all good. I'd rather find out what you like about the film, or dislike about the newer ones, or simply leave it at "we disagree." What is it about this board, or the internet in general, that leads to so much of this?
I think The Force Awakens is a quite brilliant film, and one that completely revitalized what had been a moribund franchise, ruined by the prequels. You don't think so? That's fine by me. I'll still take you seriously, as long as you can offer serious reasoning, even if it's just "the film moved me to tears," or "it spoke to something deep within me." If instead it's "Disney just sucks" or "Rey is a Mary Sue!" then maybe I'll stop taking you seriously, but come on. We're both grown-ups, can't we discuss it on a movie discussion board without rudeness and/or name-calling?
TFA is brilliant? Ummmm what? It’s a bland, soulless rehash of a New Hope only missing everything that made ANH great. You are losing more credibility the more you speak.
- Rey is a bland, boring Mary Sue, I can go into detail as to why she’s a Mary Sue if you’d like but you’ve had 7 years to figure this out.
- Han and Leia give us some of the worst exposition I have ever heard
- The action sequences aren’t entertaining
- The dialogue is horrendous
- There are so many mystery boxes with nothing in them
- FINN overacts to the point of absurdity, not to mention he undergoes his character arc 3 minutes after we meet him
- The villains are incompetent cartoon characters
- The CGI is beyond noticeable
- Kylo REN is a toddler throwing temper tantrums which makes him less threatening. There is nothing intimidating at all about someone not in control of their emotions.
I’ll give it this, it wasn’t actively trying to insult me for being a Star Wars fan like TLJ did but it’s still a really bad movie and I cannot figure out why so many people fanboyed in their pants over it, I tried to like it and I just couldn’t.
ROTS is probably the least bad of the prequels.
I don't think it's at all accurate to talk of "expectation" for that film either given that it was coming after the TPM and AOTC. Expectations were in the gutter by this stage!
ROTS is better than all the Disney films, and ROTJ, I agree though it’s not as good as ANH or ESB.
shareI'd certainly agree that it's better than all the Disney efforts, not sure about ROTJ though.
I said "probably" least bad of prequels because I actually find AOTC to be the funniest. Not in terms of quality but I probably rewatch this the most for the laugh factor!
ROTS is still the best Star Wars imo...yup..
shareNo. it doesn't. As a force ghost Obi Wan would be more powerful and dangerous to Vader and he was. The more he said Luke should kill Vader the more Luke resisted. And Luke was the one to redeem Vader. Plus, Obi Wan was following the Jedi Code that he told Anakin about: A Jedi's goal is to defend life, not take it.
shareDidn't watch the show, but did watch clips of Vader being Vader, and his fight scene with Obi-Wan.
I actually feel the opposite: that it strengthens the importance of their final fight in Episode IV.
Obi-Wan was 3 for 3 in each of their encounters. People see his sacrifice in A New Hope as Vader winning, but Obi-Wan still won because he became one with the Force, and used that connection to help Luke blow up the Death Star, and further aided Luke during Empire Strikes Back and Return of the Jedi.
Here we see -- in this duel in Obi-Wan's show -- that various things take place.
1) Anakin admits that Obi-Wan didn't fail him. He relinquishes him of the guilt from Revenge of the Sith that Obi-Wan felt for not being the better teacher to Anakin that he needed, and Anakin takes culpability for his actions.
2) Anakin admits that Vader is all that's left, and there's nothing that Obi-Wan can do. Obi-Wan resigns to acknowledging only Vader exists and that Anakin is truly dead, further strengthening what Obi-Wan tells Luke in A New Hope about Vader killing his father (which wasn't a lie).
3) It also further establishes how Obi-Wan knew that Anakin/Vader had become more machine than man, something he wouldn't have known from Revenge of the Sith, since Obi-Wan had left him to die on Mustafar. This final duel before A New Hope establishes that Obi-Wan was now well aware of what Anakin had become.