MovieChat Forums > Joker (2019) Discussion > I was surprised and impressed at first, ...

I was surprised and impressed at first, then...

posted 5 years ago by Thaisticks (3294)
5 replies | jump to latest

I was hesitant to see this because I generally don't like any type of superhero movie. Therefore I was really impressed by the first hr and 1/2 or so, which was a well-written and well-acted realistic story of a personal human tragedy. But then, towards the end, the characters and background (clown riots against the rich, mayhem and murder on the streets) become infused with the Marvel zeitgeist and it just becomes a ridiculous fluffy piece no weightier than a page from a colored comic. I suppose it had to be, since this was after all an "origin story" for a Marvel superhero, or supervillain, I guess I should say. I feel like if it had stuck to its realistic beginning and middle, the end could have been so much more than just a cheesy tie-in to a make-believe world.

[–] BourbonKing (5788) 5 years ago

What do you mean by fluffy piece towards the end? The end was just as visceral as the evolutionary touch points in the beginning. The opus was actually when he raided the mental institute and got his profile to find out that he's just a bastard who was abused by his stepfather and that his mom is a mentally ill woman who lied to him all of his life.

The movie actually defies comic book convention, even with the closing pull out shot of little Bruce in the alley way. Fluff would have been Arthur escaping and celebrating during the riots and then closing out a scene with him in the interrogation room after being arrested. This movie actually took us inside his fucked up mind. Ledgers joker was just pantomiming chaos in the spirit of Norma Desmond.

[–] Ace_Spade (9658) 5 years ago

I didn't think it did get fluffier... I agree that the ending wasn't quite perfect - mostly the scene on the talk show and Fleck/Joker's speech seemed a little over-written without being truly profound - but I still thought it made it all work. The scene on the psych ward, the way he's dancing in the light of the riot as around him the class war that's been brewing finally erupts, and he's on display as this icon of madness, showing the futility and danger of riots, politics, being cruel to people who we should offer our hands to, and warning against those who claim to be iconoclasts, but are themselves icons and demagogues.

That's not typical comic book fare.

Even if it did fluff up a bit...Marvel? It doesn't have the quippy-action blend that Marvel's been cranking since Iron Man 1. Was there something specific about it that makes you think Marvel?

[–] degree7 (821) 5 years ago

Obvious, dollar-store social commentary/imagery is obvious.

Ding

[–] Ace_Spade (9658) 5 years ago

Subtler than an Oliver Stone movie.

[–] hurricane (1967) 5 years ago

The Joker isn't a Marvel super villain.